[INFJ] Satanists

detectivepope said:
A quick very concise description of Satanism is a follows:
No god, no devils, no magic, only science. Its atheism with balls.
All symbols are to be antagonistic to theologians
Don't hurt kids
Don't force your ideas on others
Self empowerment
Fulfills emotion rituals missing from nihilism
No post christian morality
LBGT+ since inception (1966).
Focus on being alive and no obsession with death and death cult like beliefs.
No self denile or shame.
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detectivepope said:
Info needed is contained in the Satanic Bible. If you are interested I have it on pdf.
there are a few basic concepts below
The nine satanic statements: https://www.churchofsatan.com/nine-satanic-statements/
The eleven Satanic rules of earth: https://www.churchofsatan.com/eleven-rules-of-earth/
The nine Satanic sins: https://www.churchofsatan.com/nine-satanic-sins/
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Thanks for this information - it helps a lot in understanding what modern Satanism actually is. I couldn't really get my head around the idea of willingly worshipping a demon whose only purpose with people is their negation. This seems very different, and actually feels more like a structured atheistic reaction to modern religious phariseeism. Presumably the identification with Satan is as a symbol opposing the dominant Abrahamic religions rather than as anything with a supernatural reality.
 
Ren said:
The Nine Satanic Sins on the other hand are pretty interesting. Can't say much against what's listed and how it's described.

My main concern is with this faint undercurrent of spitefulness that pervades a lot of the words.
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I would agree, the spitefulness is part of it. The religion is not afraid to use what others would see as negative, just by the fact good and evil don't actually exist.
 
As a lover of giving advice, first tenet doesn't work for me. Also being a dick to annoying people isn't good always. Sometimes you're the one who's being unreasonable.

That said the negatives seem more like garden-variety asshole stuff and not outright evil (...usually) so it's better than a lot of things. That said I can imagine a lot of satanists abusing the fuck out of stand-your-ground rules with the last tenet.
 
Sidis Coruscatis said:
I defy the statements thus:

Points 1,4,5,6 - I don't understand why doing away with temperance and patience is a virtue or any other sign of strength. It smacks strongly of misanthropy, weakness of character and willpower, and just general victimization of self. It's the man who can take a beating and keep going who is strong, not the one who blows a fuse in the face of everything. When someone wants to lash out at any minor inconvenience to his ego, he's hardly a paragon of power - in fact, he wants to punish all of humanity for not being as weak as himself.

Point 2 - Spiritual pipe dreams make for a vital existence. The problem of nihilism isn't simply the lack of emotional rituals as you have said, but the lack of reverence for eternity and the absolute. It isn't the man who can only see as far as his latest hobby stretches - it's the man who sees as far as the entire universe goes who has the material health of the entire universe. Don't tell me that the crusaders and the architects of the houses of God, and the men who called for a journey to the New Jerusalem lacked in vigor.

Point 3 - Anyone who professes to see, or even to know wisdom, is deceiving himself. No wise man has ever reached the finality of his wisdom to truly define what is wisdom. As paradoxical as that may be, it is also the case that truth is stranger than fiction.

Point 7 - Well, at least Satanist have the good taste to indulge in some self-deprecation, as I can't think of any dogma as anything less than spiritual and intellectual development.

Point 8 - They don't lead to gratification, they start with gratification. This is unsustainable for the same reason that hedonism is unsustainable. Happiness is a byproduct of a purposeful action, not contained within the action itself, and for that reason their purpose must be well justified. I don't see how greed, sloth, or gluttony are justified in the long term.

Point 9 - Because he served to stoke the zeal in the faithful, which in turn brings us back to point 2. And at any rate, I don't see how this is an argument for Satan. Disease has kept the doctors in business all these years too.
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To be fair you spent some time to actively make this look negative, all based on basic statements and a shit ton of assumption and straw manning on your part. Read the Satanic Bible and then defy. If you put the effort into the source, this wouldn't look so hostile and flippant.
 
Krypton said:
As a lover of giving advice, first tenet doesn't work for me. Also being a dick to annoying people isn't good always. Sometimes you're the one who's being unreasonable.

That said the negatives seem more like garden-variety asshole stuff and not outright evil (...usually) so it's better than a lot of things. That said I can imagine a lot of satanists abusing the fuck out of stand-your-ground rules with the last tenet.
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This is all assumption and not based on the rest of Satanic belief. Satanists only defend and don't go on the offensive so that makes no sense. It doesn't state its OK to be a dick, in fact its the opposite. Abrahamic religions are the "chosen people" and look down on others as inferior.
 
@detectivepope a couple of questions for clarification.

Satanic Statements No 8: Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
What does this mean in practice? Does Satan represents imply condones, or something different? What is meant by sin here? I presume that Satanism isn't saying that murder for fun is OK for example.

Satanic Sins No 3: Solipsism
In it's pure form this a perspective that only you yourself can be known to exist. This is can be a logically held insight, which has no ethical component at all. Alternatively it can be one of the most horrible existential experiences that anyone can ever encounter and is the closest I've come across to an isolated, living hell - there is no choice in this experience, it just happens. I presume that neither of these is what this Satanist sin is referring to.​
 
detectivepope said:
I would agree, the spitefulness is part of it. The religion is not afraid to use what others would see as negative, just by the fact good and evil don't actually exist.
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That's fine as long as one conceives of spitefulness in terms of values. But scientifically (though the psychological study of spite is not very developed) it would appear that spite, although it can bring psychological benefit in the short-term, is actually harmful long-term--and here I mean harmful to the spiteful individual. This also applies to the psychology of revenge.

Now suppose psychological research into spite becomes more mature and converges towards the above (provisional) conclusion. What would Satanists do then? Presumably they would have to update their beliefs and reject spite, since to them science is the overarching 'truth'. Thus the questions becomes: would they be ready to do that.

I think this is symptomatic of a broader tension between the embrace of science, on the one hand, and the rejection of traditional religious values on the other. It may well be that what a traditional religion considers 'good' is also corroborated by science as, say, a healthy psychological mechanism. So if Satanism values science above all, it must be open to the possibility that its values may overlap with those of traditional religions.
 
detectivepope said:
To be fair you spent some time to actively make this look negative, all based on basic statements and a shit ton of assumption and straw manning on your part. Read the Satanic Bible and then defy. If you put the effort into the source, this wouldn't look so hostile and flippant.
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I did no such thing. If I speak of it negatively, then it is because it appeared negatively to me from the start. And what it appears to me is a bad interpretation of Nietzsche.

If I'm being flippant, then it is because I'm deadly serious about it, for if a doctrine can't accommodate humor and a healthy dose of paradox within itself, I must wonder if even its adherents understand it. Granted, I haven't studied it in detail, but in the meantime you're free to elucidate any of the points.
 
Sidis Coruscatis said:
I did no such thing. If I speak of it negatively, then it is because it appeared negatively to me from the start. And what it appears to me is a bad interpretation of Nietzsche.
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I saw Nietzsche in there too. There were bits that seemed relatively aligned with his views. But the thing about spite/[insert negative emotion] is that it's not very different in substance from ressentiment, so he would probably see Satanism as just another version of Christianity (albeit reversed or whatever). Basically still caring way too much about God.
 
Ren said:
Basically still caring way too much about God.
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That struck me too. Mostly the expressions of what Satanism consists of are secular in nature. Presenting themselves to the world at large with that name is anything but secular though because it will be associated by everyone else with devil worshippers. I'm not talking about what Satanists mean by their beliefs, but the way others will see the organisation, given its name. I'm not sure if this hint of horror film is intended, but that's what is bound to happen.
 
Ren said:
I saw Nietzsche in there too. There were bits that seemed relatively aligned with his views. But the thing about spite/[insert negative emotion] is that it's not very different in substance from ressentiment, so he would probably see Satanism as just another version of Christianity (albeit reversed or whatever). Basically still caring way too much about God.
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It seems to be more of a Randian distillation of Nietzsche actually.
 
How is it going @detectivepope? I was a little worried when you opened this thread that it would be full of responses by people who don't understand Satanism and don't bother to look up what it is about before commenting about stereotypes. I ...uh..wasn't... exactly... wrong.

It was brave to create this thread. A Satanist friend has been fired from jobs and had his IG account suspended, not for anything he posted, but because ignorant people trolled and reported innocent photos. He suffers from depression due to lack of acceptance. Other Satanist friends have had easier times, but they also keep their faith quiet.
 
Asa said:
How is it going @detectivepope? I was a little worried when you opened this thread that it would be full of responses by people who don't understand Satanism and don't bother to look up what it is about before commenting about stereotypes. I ...uh..wasn't... exactly... wrong.

It was brave to create this thread. A Satanist friend has been fired from jobs and had his IG account suspended, not for anything he posted, but because ignorant people trolled and reported innocent photos. He suffers from depression due to lack of acceptance. Other Satanist friends have had easier times, but they also keep their faith quiet.
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It’s been a very useful thread for me because the idea of secular Satanism wasn’t one that I’d come across previously. The other two forms I was already aware of - one a form of pagan faith, misunderstood down the ages as devil worship; the other actually based on the Satan of the Abrahamic religions. I gather from searching the internet that all three of these forms of Satanism have followers. I’m not sure if all the people who follow these paths would describe themselves as Satanists though.
 
John K said:
It’s been a very useful thread for me because the idea of secular Satanism wasn’t one that I’d come across previously. The other two forms I was already aware of - one a form of pagan faith, misunderstood down the ages as devil worship; the other actually based on the Satan of the Abrahamic religions. I gather from searching the internet that all three of these forms of Satanism have followers. I’m not sure if all the people who follow these paths would describe themselves as Satanists though.
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Same here John, I feel like I learned genuinely new information thanks to this thread.

@Asa I didn't really see what you describe (with perhaps a couple exceptions). If someone creates a thread about Satanism it's normal to expect discussion to arise, and for that discussion to incorporate a critical element. Critical discussion is also a way of showing openness and interest.

If anything, I'm disappointed that @detectivepope didn't answer the more challenging questions.
 
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detectivepope said:
As a Satanist I find a lot of my beliefs are perfectly met within the Satanist framework. Is there anyone else here Church or Satan? Are you interested in it as a subject?
p.s. quick disclaimer, Temple of Satan is a pyramid scheme and not part of this.
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I am not into the Satanic thingy but I like this " 1Hour of Witchcraft Music | Dark & Light " (google it). It just plays beautifully in my ears.
Am I considered a satanic? :grinning: or just one wierdo with unique taste of music?
Satanic carries a bit negative tone, what about Luciferians? he is this awesome, less scarry



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