[INFJ] Satanists

Misty said:
This^. Beautifully worded, as well.


Also this, John. This is simple & well explained.

I would also like to add something I was thinking about yesterday in regards to this and another currently active thread here about Satan & Satanism. There is a verse that lingers inside when I hear that Satanism today isn't about hurting others and is a peaceful faith, and so forth. The verse comes, ironically, from the book of John.

John 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

It wouldn't be a big stretch to believe that the people who find themselves a part of Satanism, as a faith, who feel it's creed is not violent or evil are indeed deceived.

It also reminds me of a quote I found when researching for a larger work in progress of fiction I've been writing for some time. While it's not a verse, it's very poignant to the topic of Satanism today.

"Very few people believe in the devil these days, which suits the devil very well. He is always helping to circulate the news of his own death. The essence of God is existence, and He defines Himself as: 'I am Who am.' The essence of the devil is the lie, and he defines himself as: 'I am who am not.' Satan has very little trouble with those who do not believe in him; they are already on his side."
Fulton J. Sheen, Life of Christ
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It seems to me that the creed of Satanism that this thread refers to is actually a form of atheism, and is more of a philosophy of life than a religion:
https://www.infjs.com/threads/satanists.38180/page-3#post-1334368

The choice of its name seems designed to shock and confront rather than to express a free choice to embrace and enact evil personified. On that basis, I don't think that this particular sort of Satanism is intrinsically evil, and on the contrary good lives can surely be achieved by living to many of its values. I don't agree with it of course, but that's very different from seeing it as a commitment to the destruction of good. The name does mean that it's going to be misunderstood and condemned for things that it doesn't contain, and it is going to be confused with those who follow what is effectively a pagan religion (also not inherently evil), or those who do actually worship The Devil: I don't fully understand why this particular name was chosen for it unless the confusion was a deliberate intention.
 
John K said:
It seems to me that the creed of Satanism that this thread refers to is actually a form of atheism, and is more of a philosophy of life than a religion:
https://www.infjs.com/threads/satanists.38180/page-3#post-1334368

The choice of its name seems designed to shock and confront rather than to express a free choice to embrace and enact evil personified. On that basis, I don't think that this particular sort of Satanism is intrinsically evil, and on the contrary good lives can surely be achieved by living to many of its values. I don't agree with it of course, but that's very different from seeing it as a commitment to the destruction of good. The name does mean that it's going to be misunderstood and condemned for things that it doesn't contain, and it is going to be confused with those who follow what is effectively a pagan religion (also not inherently evil), or those who do actually worship The Devil: I don't fully understand why this particular name was chosen for it unless the confusion was a deliberate intention.
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Yes, agreed. That's my ultimate question then.. why would you call yourself a Satanist if you actually aren't? It's strange.
 
John K said:
I don't fully understand why this particular name was chosen for it unless the confusion was a deliberate intention.
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God: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Satan: I'm rebellious, I go against god; I am my own god!
These people: We are our own gods. Let's call ourselves Satanists.
 
Lady Jolanda said:
God: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Satan: I'm rebellious, I go against god; I am my own god!
These people: We are our own gods. Let's call ourselves Satanists.
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Yes, like Misty says - plausible. The trouble is that the name was already taken and used in much darker senses centuries ago, and people won't distinguish between them easily. Hos quotes a good example of someone who got involved with demon pacts.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
In the case I posted, though, the belief system actively encouraged murder, which cannot be said for most Christian doctrines.

I think that's an important distinction.
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Historically, Christianity has encouraged torture, murder, and wars.

We can blame this on faiths, or we can blame it on people being jerkfaces.
 
There are certainly evil people who do terrible things from all walks of life, indeed. I believe they will face their maker in the end and be called to question for it most assuredly.
 
Asa said:
Historically, Christianity has encouraged torture, murder, and wars.

We can blame this on faiths, or we can blame it on people being jerkfaces.
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I 100% disagree with this.

People who profess to be Christian have encouraged torture, murder, and wars.

Big difference.
 
o2b said:
I 100% disagree with this.

People who profess to be Christian have encouraged torture, murder, and wars.

Big difference.
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One could say the same about pagans and Satanists and other people placed under the blanket term of "practicing the occult". The hatred and stereotyping needs to stop, especially when it comes from a group with a long history of misdeeds (I mean Christians).

All the world's religions are more alike than not. Our stories are similar and the good things we long for are similar. Instead of spreading hate and continued misinformation, I'm asking to please recognize the pain "people claiming to be Christian" have caused by condemning others and try to walk forward with acceptance and peace instead of continuing this narrative of hatred toward others and condemnation.
 
This is long, but is so important to me.

Asa said:
One could say the same about pagans and Satanists and other people placed under the blanket term of "practicing the occult". The hatred and stereotyping needs to stop, especially when it comes from a group with a long history of misdeeds (I mean Christians).

All the world's religions are more alike than not. Our stories are similar and the good things we long for are similar. Instead of spreading hate and continued misinformation, I'm asking to please recognize the pain "people claiming to be Christian" have caused by condemning others and try to walk forward with acceptance and peace instead of continuing this narrative of hatred toward others and condemnation.
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My sense of this is to first suggest what Christian morality is as well as its contrast. I believe Christian morality is the principle of esteeming all others above self. Its contrast is the principle of esteeming self above any other and ultimately above all others.

When Christ washed the feet of His disciples, He exemplified this ethic. In their culture, a king would never wash the feet of his subjects. And here the King of Kings is doing just that. I believe this would include Judas' feet.

Satanism, as an ethic as described in the Bible, is the contrasting ethic.

Isaiah 14:12-14
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’

Ezekiel 28:14-15,17a
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;

By the way, when Lucifer says, "I will be like the Most High," he is either delusional or lying. The throne of God is selfless love and this is not the kind of exaltation Satan is referring to. Quite the opposite.

So, any behavior compatible with selfless love is Christian. Any that is not is not Christian.

So, what of un-Christian behavior done by professed Christians? Either the person is not a Christian or he is behaving according to his imperfection.

For me, where Christianity is seemingly most vulnerable is the moral futility of its true followers, myself included bigtime. I mean...what good is it if Christ's true followers blow things even a lot sometimes?

My response is that grace could only be meted out in portions, else the Christian would be defeated by the process.

Right now, we can only receive grace in the realm of reason. But, there is another category of grace which is the realm of feeling. It is when the two become one flesh that good works will abound.

Imagine an arrow in flight with a desired destination. Let this arrow represent the process of being transformed in character. Clarity of reason represents the path of the arrow. The feeling realm, its flight (the fuel that enables it to fly).

The reason component has to be spot on or else the arrow, in flight, will miss its mark. We cannot handle the feeling component until the reason component is very well understood. The biblical metaphor representing this clear and full understanding of the gospel is Elijah. He must come before the arrow can be allowed to take flight.

Until that experience, which is the condition for the end of things, valid Christians will sometimes do bad things, unfortunately. Of course, so will professed Christians who are not.

Romans 8:20-22
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

I wrote about the grace which will give the arrow flight to its ultimate destination here.

The Blood of Christ (that perfects the conscience):
https://www.infjs.com/xfa-blog-entry/the-blood-of-christ.8016
 
@o2b - I'm pagan. Your people killed my people and stole our traditions.


I ask you to be more open-minded, you spout the same verse that caused this bloodshed.
 
Asa said:
@o2b - I'm pagan. Your people killed my people and stole our traditions.


I ask you to be more open-minded, you spout the same verse that caused this bloodshed.
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I just said that the only morality I advocate is the principle of esteeming all others above self. I also said that because they are imperfect, valid Christians have done bad things.

Given this, help me out. In what way would you like me to be more open-minded?
 
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