[INFJ] Satanists

[InfernoMink]

Here’s some brutal truth for both sides of this debate. It’s really worth a watch on both sides as both sides will learn TONS about their beliefs. Enjoy.

 

[Jonah Caan]

The essence of God is existence, and He defines Himself as: 'I am Who am.' The essence of the devil is the lie, and he defines himself as: 'I am who am not.' Satan has very little trouble with those who do not believe in him; they are already on his side."
Fulton J. Sheen, Life of Christ

I love this; thank you for haring it.

 

[Jonah Caan]

Sorry for verse dropping haha, but catching up with this thread reminded me of these verses and they clarify it for me:

"Did I not enjoin upon you, O children of Adam, that you not worship Satan - [for] indeed, he is to you a clear enemy

And that you worship [only] Me? This is a straight path.

And he had already led astray from among you much of creation, so did you not use reason?

This is the Hellfire which you were promised."

The Quran, 36:60-36:64

 

[ESC2367]

Before I looked in it I thought this thread was something else.

Recently there was a controversial music video produced where the man who made it did a gay striptease on Satan's lap.

I don't get the controversy though to me the whole affair just seemed bland and uninspired. Maybe would have been edgy in 1996 but today it just blends in with the rest of the culture.

It's got levels with far too many words to speak or type. only controversy is that it is misunderstood. The context is based of of experiencing life.

"HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN"
"THE DEVIL WILL FUCK YOU IN HELL"
yes these kinda things are said.

(i just had to say this...)


ight, so now what i have to say...
I grew up catholic... when i realized that i was trans... i ended up praying to god... (nightly, mind you.) for him to change my gender because he made the mistake... he refused to do so...

in turn i became an athiest, and shortly after i became a pagan. :3 which started my journey into the occult. (1998)

I ended up studying various paths, then i learned about Traditional Satanism... (2010) in which was where i started my music career...

however the group i joined requested the edgy 66.60USD Which i thought nothing of... until a few months later, i ended up going to maine after a few weeks every part of my intuition was screaming at me to get out of there. (as i have been in an abusive relationship before... the signs were all there.)

Though these people went ahead and ostrasized me because they didn't believe me... (this is what started my dysthymia. and the main reason i don't commit suicide... as i feel it is part of their plan.)

That bus ride was really tragic. I then was in search of other options, and studied more. I eventually came upon Chaos Magick and Discordianism. :3

Discordianism is such an amazing thing. it was just what i needed. and i found it around when i turned 23 years and 5 months... only a few weeks after doom of satanism.

so i am a Discordian. Wanna know it's history?

 

[Misty]

I love this; thank you for haring it.

You're very welcome. ^_^

Sorry for verse dropping haha, but catching up with this thread reminded me of these verses and they clarify it for me:

"Did I not enjoin upon you, O children of Adam, that you not worship Satan - [for] indeed, he is to you a clear enemy

And that you worship [only] Me? This is a straight path.

And he had already led astray from among you much of creation, so did you not use reason?

This is the Hellfire which you were promised."

The Quran, 36:60-36:64

This is good.^ I like it.

It's easy to be quiet and pretend you don't have a faith in the world today. As persecuted and hated as many people feel over their sexuality, there are now many of faith who feel this hate as well. And according to prophecy it's only going to get worse, to the point of losing ones life for having it. Though Christians were already fed to lions for sport and murdered for speaking of their beliefs, so it definitely cuts both ways historically and in the present tense.

This hate & fear of physical retaliation is wrong, whether against Christians or against a person who is homosexual, alike. God commands us to hate the sin, love the sinner, of which we all are, actually. We are none perfect and have all lied, lusted, what have you. Heterosexual people are also guilty when we lust or fornicate, so it isn't right to ostracize. No argument there.

But I agree with your standpoint here. What is sin is sin, or we would have been told otherwise.

 

[Jonah Caan]

@Misty, absolutely.

My faith is something very personal to me and although I think the religion I follow (Islam) is being distorted and corrupted more and more as the centuries go on, it's my link with my Creator that matters to me most.

I'm a homosexual (bisexual if I was to label it) Muslim from a Pakistani family so I definitely relate to the persecution and hatred haha. Whereas before it was more open and direct, this hatred is more covert now, which in a way makes it worse. I've even had an individual on this forum use my sexuality to try and get people against me. But, I built a thick skin to hatred against me as a kid, when there were racial riots in my home town and a lot of racism. No one in my life knows about my sexuality apart from my brother; I'd be ostracised from my family if they found out.

I used to hate myself for being attracted to men when I was younger, I felt it was a sin. But I realised that's just who I am and it's acting upon it which is the sin. Seems like a small distinction but it ruined me as a kid and I hated myself for it. Was a long road of recovery but I'm definitely completely done with that now.

Sorry, I think I just derailed this thread haha.

 

[Misty]

@Misty, absolutely.

My faith is something very personal to me and although I think the religion I follow (Islam) is being distorted and corrupted more and more as the centuries go on, it's my link with my Creator that matters to me most.

I'm a homosexual (bisexual if I was to label it) Muslim from a Pakistani family so I definitely relate to the persecution and hatred haha. Whereas before it was more open and direct, this hatred is more covert now, which in a way makes it worse. I've even had an individual on this forum use my sexuality to try and get people against me. But, I built a thick skin to hatred against me as a kid, when there were racial riots in my home town and a lot of racism. No one in my life knows about my sexuality apart from my brother; I'd be ostracised from my family if they found out.

I used to hate myself for being attracted to men when I was younger, I felt it was a sin. But I realised that's just who I am and it's acting upon it which is the sin. Seems like a small distinction but it ruined me as a kid and I hated myself for it. Was a long road of recovery but I'm definitely completely done with that now.

Sorry, I think I just derailed this thread haha.

Thank you for sharing your story with me. It helps me to be much more understanding, so thank you sincerely for your openness. <3

While I haven't any idea what such awful pain of persecution and threat of ostracism you have endured feels like, I can still relate. Though I am heterosexual I'm also hypersexual. When I was married this was a good thing, but as a single Christian it poses a slight problem. I understand the self loathing part and the effort involved in order to follow what feels right in my conscience and my soul.

Much respect, Jonah

 

[o2b]

@Misty, absolutely.

My faith is something very personal to me and although I think the religion I follow (Islam) is being distorted and corrupted more and more as the centuries go on, it's my link with my Creator that matters to me most.

I'm a homosexual (bisexual if I was to label it) Muslim from a Pakistani family so I definitely relate to the persecution and hatred haha. Whereas before it was more open and direct, this hatred is more covert now, which in a way makes it worse. I've even had an individual on this forum use my sexuality to try and get people against me. But, I built a thick skin to hatred against me as a kid, when there were racial riots in my home town and a lot of racism. No one in my life knows about my sexuality apart from my brother; I'd be ostracised from my family if they found out.

I used to hate myself for being attracted to men when I was younger, I felt it was a sin. But I realised that's just who I am and it's acting upon it which is the sin. Seems like a small distinction but it ruined me as a kid and I hated myself for it. Was a long road of recovery but I'm definitely completely done with that now.

Sorry, I think I just derailed this thread haha.

I wasn't going to write anything, but thanks to @Misty's bravery and openness, I feel led.

Thanks primarily to emotional trauma and being led to certain experiences, I have homosexual desires. Mine is pure lust so I just keep it to myself, if you know what I mean. (I am unable to not ever express it and I am also unwilling to express it with another since there would be no valid relational anything. That and my spiritual sense of it.)

I also have had ptsd episodes with women (terrifying).

Not a good situation.

While I have had past relationships, there is a good chance henceforth I will always be alone.

 

[Misty]

I wasn't going to write anything, but thanks to @Misty's bravery and openness, I feel led.

Thanks primarily to emotional trauma and being led to certain experiences, I have homosexual desires. Mine is pure lust so I just keep it to myself, if you know what I mean. (I am unable to not ever express it and I am also unwilling to express it with another since there would be no valid relational anything. That and my spiritual sense of it.)

I also have had ptsd episodes with women (terrifying).

Not a good situation.

While I have had past relationships, there is a good chance henceforth I will always be alone.

Thanks for sharing as well. I think that we shouldn't derail this thread any more than we have with the last 3 posts, though. ^_^

*Back to OP's topic*

 

[Reason]

It's got levels with far too many words to speak or type. only controversy is that it is misunderstood. The context is based of of experiencing life.

"HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN"
"THE DEVIL WILL FUCK YOU IN HELL"
yes these kinda things are said.

(i just had to say this...)


ight, so now what i have to say...
I grew up catholic... when i realized that i was trans... i ended up praying to god... (nightly, mind you.) for him to change my gender because he made the mistake... he refused to do so...

in turn i became an athiest, and shortly after i became a pagan. :3 which started my journey into the occult. (1998)

I ended up studying various paths, then i learned about Traditional Satanism... (2010) in which was where i started my music career...

however the group i joined requested the edgy 66.60USD Which i thought nothing of... until a few months later, i ended up going to maine after a few weeks every part of my intuition was screaming at me to get out of there. (as i have been in an abusive relationship before... the signs were all there.)

Though these people went ahead and ostrasized me because they didn't believe me... (this is what started my dysthymia. and the main reason i don't commit suicide... as i feel it is part of their plan.)

That bus ride was really tragic. I then was in search of other options, and studied more. I eventually came upon Chaos Magick and Discordianism. :3

Discordianism is such an amazing thing. it was just what i needed. and i found it around when i turned 23 years and 5 months... only a few weeks after doom of satanism.

so i am a Discordian. Wanna know it's history?

Sounds to me like these choices you've made and places you've travelled have been the result of the emotions you feel after what you've experienced rather than some sort of philosophical epiphanies or rational process.

Do you feel as if you've "dealt with" part of the bad things that happened to you growing up by switching around to these different groups/ideas?

 

[ESC2367]

yeah.

 

[VVilliam]

This^. Beautifully worded, as well.


Also this, John. This is simple & well explained.

I would also like to add something I was thinking about yesterday in regards to this and another currently active thread here about Satan & Satanism. There is a verse that lingers inside when I hear that Satanism today isn't about hurting others and is a peaceful faith, and so forth. The verse comes, ironically, from the book of John.

John 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

It wouldn't be a big stretch to believe that the people who find themselves a part of Satanism, as a faith, who feel it's creed is not violent or evil are indeed deceived.

It also reminds me of a quote I found when researching for a larger work in progress of fiction I've been writing for some time. While it's not a verse, it's very poignant to the topic of Satanism today.

"Very few people believe in the devil these days, which suits the devil very well. He is always helping to circulate the news of his own death. The essence of God is existence, and He defines Himself as: 'I am Who am.' The essence of the devil is the lie, and he defines himself as: 'I am who am not.' Satan has very little trouble with those who do not believe in him; they are already on his side."
Fulton J. Sheen, Life of Christ

Satan appears to be a mythological invention of Christianity and belief in him was necessary for the survival of the Christian religion.

 

[Misty]

Satan appears to be a mythological invention of Christianity and belief in him was necessary for the survival of the Christian religion.

I've found in life that the people who most vehemently argue the validity of Satan & or God do so because they secretly fear one or both are real. This helps them wash away any worry over the ramifications their denial may cause, once dead, if they are wrong.

 

[April]

I wasn't going to write anything, but thanks to @Misty's bravery and openness, I feel led.

Thanks primarily to emotional trauma and being led to certain experiences, I have homosexual desires. Mine is pure lust so I just keep it to myself, if you know what I mean. (I am unable to not ever express it and I am also unwilling to express it with another since there would be no valid relational anything. That and my spiritual sense of it.)

I also have had ptsd episodes with women (terrifying).

Not a good situation.

While I have had past relationships, there is a good chance henceforth I will always be alone.

Out of all the people in this world, Tony, there are people who could have a loving relationship with you. If you want it. All of us are damaged in some ways. We just have to find people who can not only tolerate that damage as it manifests through our behavior, but support us as we heal, and even help us heal. It's possible. Keep your chin up and know your worth. <3

 

[VVilliam]

I've found in life that the people who most vehemently argue the validity of Satan & or God do so because they secretly fear one or both are real. This helps them wash away any worry over the ramifications their denial may cause, once dead, if they are wrong.

Standard natural human behavior regarding mythological beings, which both God and Satan are. A type of hedging ones bets due to ones neglect to do the study of available data this side of death.

Generally speaking, both mythological entities are representations/personifications of the idea of Good and Evil [Good/Devil] and have similar imagery attached to them - such as being males, dominating, enthroned, superior commanders of multitudes of lessor beings etc...

The lines are blurred re G&E because these are also human constructs and shift as human culture evolves.

This is why the biblical God was understood by the Ancient Hebrews to be the bringer of both good and evil - which Christianity later on separated - which resulted in much pain and confusion...

 

[Misty]

Standard natural human behavior regarding mythological beings, which both God and Satan are. A type of hedging ones bets due to ones neglect to do the study of available data this side of death.

Generally speaking, both mythological entities are representations/personifications of the idea of Good and Evil [Good/Devil] and have similar imagery attached to them - such as being males, dominating, enthroned, superior commanders of multitudes of lessor beings etc...

The lines are blurred re G&E because these are also human constructs and shift as human culture evolves.

This is why the biblical God was understood by the Ancient Hebrews to be the bringer of both good and evil - which Christianity later on separated - which resulted in much pain and confusion...

God and Satan are not mythological beings. Having done my due diligence to learn this side of death, indeed, and having had quite personal experiences of God and evil, I honestly disagree.

Faith in God isn't a bet, to me, nor is it to millions of others. Not everything worthwhile can be proven with data or quantified in a laboratory.

What a beautiful experience it's been to know there's something so much more.

 

[VVilliam]

[1]God and Satan are not mythological beings. [2]Having done my due diligence to learn this side of death, indeed, and having had quite personal experiences of God and evil, I honestly disagree.

[3]Faith in God isn't a bet, to me, nor is it to millions of others. [4]Not everything worthwhile can be proven with data or quantified in a laboratory.

[5]What a beautiful experience it's been to know there's something so much more.

[1] Yes they are. The are products of human invention.
[2] Did you watch the video linked in post #121?
[3] Argumentum ad populum [logical fallacy]
[4] Belief in God and Satan have never been proven objectively to be worthwhile. On the contrary.
[5] I myself - after diligent study over many years - understand that we most likely do exist within a creation, which therefore implies a creator. There is 'something so much more' but neither the belief in religious ideas of gods, or devils are related to or responsible for, that being the case.

 

[Misty]

[1] Yes they are. The are products of human invention.
[2] Did you watch the video linked in post #121?
[3] Argumentum ad populum [logical fallacy]
[4] Belief in God and Satan have never been proven objectively to be worthwhile. On the contrary.
[5] I myself - after diligent study over many years - understand that we most likely do exist within a creation, which therefore implies a creator. There is 'something so much more' but neither the belief in religious ideas of gods, or devils are related to or responsible for, that being the case.

It's very much worth it to me.

Have a great day!

 

[o2b]

Out of all the people in this world, Tony, there are people who could have a loving relationship with you. If you want it. All of us are damaged in some ways. We just have to find people who can not only tolerate that damage as it manifests through our behavior, but support us as we heal, and even help us heal. It's possible. Keep your chin up and know your worth. <3

Thanks @April, that is very kind of you to say.

Yeah, maybe, and I would love it to be so. So much fear of women in my subconscious. I don't know.

Thank you!

 

[o2b]

God and Satan are not mythological beings. Having done my due diligence to learn this side of death, indeed, and having had quite personal experiences of God and evil, I honestly disagree.

Faith in God isn't a bet, to me, nor is it to millions of others. Not everything worthwhile can be proven with data or quantified in a laboratory.

What a beautiful experience it's been to know there's something so much more.

@Misty, you echo my experiences and convictions exactly.