Satya's Ethics of Belief

[Flavus Aquila]

@just me , @Hoggle , @Bird , @jesin , @InvisibleJim , @Flavus Aquila

Since most of you seem to only be in this thread to attack me rather than understand my perspective, let me tell you a story.

I was raised by my grandmother. When I was in my 20s she developed a lump in her breast which she did not tell anyone about. Because of all the crap she read on the internet she was afraid of doctors to the point that she refused to go to one. She read all sorts of stuff on the internet of people selling all sorts of snake oil cures for cancer. She spent tons of money on these things because she believed the pseudoscience they spouted to support their fake medicine. My grandmother had a whole hell of a lot of life experience, but no critical thinking skills.

I watched my grandmother get sick, but I did not know how bad she was. I tried relentlessly to get her to take a critical approach to what she read on the internet, but she believed every conspiracy theory that was out there. By the time my grandmother went to the hospital, her breast cancer had metastasized throughout her bones and she had fractures from head to toe. She died two weeks later after having endured months of pain and agony.

Trust me, I would take my critical thinking skills over my grandmother's entire life experience any day.

The consequences of my grandmother's beliefs and her lack of critical thinking caused not only her to suffer, but my entire family from the pain of losing her. If you have ever watched someone you love slowly die from a terminal illness, then perhaps you can understand the impact that has.

It could have all been avoided and she could still be here today. That is what hurts me the most to this day.

Call me what you want and question my motives all you want, but I will always call blind faith in intuition a disease. Nothing has caused me more pain in life.

It is a devastating thing when you can't help someone you love. You inevitable end up hating whatever it was that prevented you helping. I can understand your hatred of superstitious hope, or skepticism/fear of medicine.

I know someone like your grandmother (at least, the particular details/traits you describe) - she would rather die, literally, than allow herself to be probed, or have her body invaded/cut-up/violated by scalpels. Fortunately, she doesn't seem to be suffering from any disease. However, as much as her stance is ridiculous to me, it is based on something I know all too well: personal boundaries/limits which act as a defense. What are they protecting? A sense of personal dignity.

Some people don't have a very secure sense of dignity - perhaps because they are physically diminutive, or something of an odd-bod; perhaps because they don't have the intellectual wherewithal to hold their own, or even to comprehend what others are discussing; perhaps because they are naturally timid, or have few family/friends they can count on. For many people, if not most people, their greatest source of strength is in their own unbreakable will.

People who feel vulnerable, or powerless - and that would be most of us at one time, or another - attach their wills to anything that in any way could seem a safe bet. For those who cannot understand, it is blind ideologies; for those who are physically vulnerable, it can be in obsessive preoccupation with defense (as martial arts, or technological defenses, etc.); etc. Attacking this 'anchor' they attach their will to, only reinforces it - in martyr complexes, or confirmation of threat assessments, etc. The worst tragedy is that the best defense is usually offense: those who are insecure often end up being aggressors... the whole victim, turned abuser phenomenon.

The only thing to help people who have become stubbourn as a defense is to help them gain a sense of their own security, safety, value, creative ability, beauty - a sense that they are loved, secure, and have a dignity that is intrinsic and cannot be taken away, and needs no defending.

The religion thing. I know that most people experience religion either as a blind ideology, or as a superstitious system, or as a means of evading hell - all of these things do provide people with a certain means of defending some sense of their own dignity (self-righteousness?). However, some religion is experienced as a friendship - a loving friendship with God, that dissolves fear and replaces it with the security of being loved - not the security of being stubborn. Love is never a closed off, close-minded thing.

I don't think critical thinking is anything but a good thing; however, defensive critical thinking - or worse, offensive critical thinking does nothing to open people to knowledge, possibilities, etc. Rather, it just contributes to a deep mistrust of everything/everyone.

 

[Bird]

@just me , @Hoggle , @Bird , @jesin , @InvisibleJim , @Flavus Aquila

Since most of you seem to only be in this thread to attack me rather than understand my perspective, let me tell you a story.

I was raised by my grandmother. When I was in my 20s she developed a lump in her breast which she did not tell anyone about. Because of all the crap she read on the internet she was afraid of doctors to the point that she refused to go to one. She read all sorts of stuff on the internet of people selling all sorts of snake oil cures for cancer. She spent tons of money on these things because she believed the pseudoscience they spouted to support their fake medicine. My grandmother had a whole hell of a lot of life experience, but no critical thinking skills.

I watched my grandmother get sick, but I did not know how bad she was. I tried relentlessly to get her to take a critical approach to what she read on the internet, but she believed every conspiracy theory that was out there. By the time my grandmother went to the hospital, her breast cancer had metastasized throughout her bones and she had fractures from head to toe. She died two weeks later after having endured months of pain and agony.

Trust me, I would take my critical thinking skills over my grandmother's entire life experience any day.

The consequences of my grandmother's beliefs and her lack of critical thinking caused not only her to suffer, but my entire family from the pain of losing her. If you have ever watched someone you love slowly die from a terminal illness, then perhaps you can understand the impact that has.

It could have all been avoided and she could still be here today. That is what hurts me the most to this day.

Call me what you want and question my motives all you want, but I will always call blind faith in intuition a disease. Nothing has caused me more pain in life.

It's not having blind faith in intuition that's caused you pain.
It's you and your decision making. Quit shirking responsibility.

 

[Satya]

Your way of life simply will not work for everyone. How will you adopt children if everyone is gay like you? Who will have the children? Raise the children all up as gay and who will continue the human race? It does not work, nor was it meant to be.

What crappy logic. If everyone was a celibate priest and nun, then there would be no children, so I guess by your logic it is wrong to be a celibate priest or nun.

Would you also argue that heterosexual people who choose not to have children are wrong? I mean, if everyone chose not to have children then there would be no children, so clearly it must be wrong for those few that do.

Worst off yet, GAY PEOPLE DO HAVE KIDS! Gay people have been using surrogacy or sperm donors forever.

There is inordinate affection on both sides, not just one, of this story. My side, too! Everything on my side has its limitations and parameters, also. Guidelines are to help, not to imprison. Guidelines are not just for gays.

Arbitrary guidelines based on nothing do imprison. If I established a legal guideline in law that Christians couldn't marry or adopt, I'm sure you would take issue with it.

 

[Satya]

However, some religion is experienced as a friendship - a loving friendship with God, that dissolves fear and replaces it with the security of being loved - not the security of being stubborn. Love is never a closed off, close-minded thing.

You do know that isn't exactly a Biblical conception of God, right? The whole "relationship with God" thing is a fairly new concept in Christianity probably extending the last hundred years or so.

I don't think critical thinking is anything but a good thing; however, defensive critical thinking - or worse, offensive critical thinking does nothing to open people to knowledge, possibilities, etc. Rather, it just contributes to a deep mistrust of everything/everyone.

Please define "defensive" and "offensive" critical thinking. I'm not sure I understand how critical thinking could be qualified in that manner.

 

[Satya]

it's not having blind faith in intuition that's caused you pain.
It's you and your decision making. Quit shirking responsibility.

Are you seriously fucking blaming me for my grandmother's death! You can fuck off!

 

[Satya]

No, I'm not. You're interpreting it that way though.


How many times you going to say fuck to me today?


...Maybe you should tell yourself to go fuck off
and quit being such a dumbass.

When the fuck did I compare schizophrenia to heaven? I compared schizophrenia to dogma. Does that give you an excuse to blame me for my grandmother's death!

 

[bickelz]

Your way of life simply will not work for everyone. How will you adopt children if everyone is gay like you? Who will have the children? Raise the children all up as gay and who will continue the human race? It does not work, nor was it meant to be.

Gay people can still have children. We're gay, not sterile. And our bits function fine thank you very much. And being raised by gay parents doesn't mean you will be gay and if you think that, you don't know how this works. It ain't a choice.

Your grandmother surely had some good life experiences, but you would choose your critical thinking over her entire life experience?

In my experience, most people don't start asking the philosophical questions I ask until later in life. I've run into people that think they're wiser than me just because of age and try to get all deep with me but I see through it because they don't know their own shadow, much less anything about life.

Unless they've gotten the point to life, I really don't trust anyone's advice on a truly deep level.

I value my Grandmother and hold her picture in the highest regard. She hated hospitals and doctors. She died in her late eighties. Wonderful woman.

That's cool. We often idealize people after they've passed and we often idealize the parent of the opposite sex assuming they didn't do anything harmful to us.

My grandma's like 93 and she's a nutter. Completely crazy. She lies, talks behind your back and butters you up when you're there in front of her. It's a nasty personality trait and she uses her age to get away with it.

 

[Bird]

I am not blaming you on your grandmother's death.
I have stated this to you twice now, this is the third time.
Satya, do your critical reading skills seriously suck that
hard?

Why do we try to cure schizophrenics? Wouldn't they be happier in their delusions that they are kings and queens of their own little reality?

I paraphrased, in this sentence here you make it seem as though
being schizophrenic is awesome, truly a walk in the park, a very
enjoyable experience, it's not. And then you send me a PM implying
that you know more about schizophrenia because you're a social worker?
Are you kidding me right now? You must be delusional yourself.

I clearly stated that it is not your faith that is the problem but you
yourself. Use your psychology skills that obviously you mastered as a
social worker and pair them with your critical reading skills to realize
that YOU blame yourself for your grandmother's death and stop
projecting this on me.

 

[Satya]

I am not blaming you on your grandmother's death.
I have stated this to you twice now, this is the third time.
Satya, do your critical reading skills seriously suck that
hard?

After a post about my grandmother's death you state that I'm "shirking responsibility". What the fuck am I suppose to think? And yeah, you can believe I'm not critical thinking right now because some ass just came into a thread and blamed me for my grandmother's death and is now denying it while insulting me! You want the irrational me, you fucking got it!

I paraphrased, in this sentence here you make it seem as though
being schizophrenic is awesome, truly a walk in the park, a very
enjoyable experience, it's not. And then you send me a PM implying
that you know more about schizophrenia because you're a social worker?
Are you kidding me right now? You must be delusional yourself.

Believe it or not, you do not represent every schizophrenic person on the fucking planet! There are schizophrenics who are quite happy in their delusions! And no, I'm not acting like a social worker right now because I am fucking pissed!

I clearly stated that it is not your faith that is the problem but you
yourself. Use your psychology skills that obviously you mastered as a
social worker and pair them with your critical reading skills to realize
that YOU blame yourself for your grandmother's death and stop
projecting this on me.

I don't blame myself for shit! It was my grandmother's lack of critical thinking that lead to her death! I tried my hardest to get her to question why she believed the things she believed! I went through utter hell watching her suffer in pain for months and having my own mental health deteriorate because I couldn't do shit about it! And then I lost her because as something as stupid as putting blind faith in intuition!

 

[Bird]

I DID NOT BLAME YOU FOR YOUR GRANDMOTHER'S DEATH.
IF I WERE DOING THAT I'D STRAIGHT UP SAY "SATYA YOU
KILLED YOUR GRANDMA!!!!" AM I SAYING THAT? NO.


Shut the fuck up, seriously. I'm blocking you so don't even
bother replying. Go hang out with VH and call me a fucking
INTP bitch but don't address me further.


Thank you, asshole.

 

[Bird]

Nevermind, you can't block retired staff which is FUCKING STUPID.

 

[Satya]

I DID NOT BLAME YOU FOR YOUR GRANDMOTHER'S DEATH.
IF I WERE DOING THAT I'D STRAIGHT UP SAY "SATYA YOU
KILLED YOUR GRANDMA!!!!" AM I SAYING THAT? NO.

YOU TOTALLY FUCKING DID! STOP DENYING IT!

Shut the fuck up, seriously. I'm blocking you so don't even
bother replying. Go hang out with VH and call me a fucking
INTP bitch but don't address me further.

Fuck off! You could have done that from the start!

 

[Satya]

Nevermind, you can't block retired staff which is FUCKING STUPID.

Here is an idea! Stay the fuck out of my threads!

 

[Bird]

And just so you know, I didn't bother reading your longass
post about your dead grandma because I don't give two fucks
about what you have to say. I read that part about intution
from your sad little story and based my reply off of that.

So I didn't even know your grandma was dead. So stop fucking
telling me I'm blaming you for your grandma's death. Happy now?

You're an emotional wreck. Go mourn and stop projecting.




/done

 

[Satya]

And just so you know, I didn't bother reading your longass
post about your dead grandma because I don't give two fucks
about what you have to say. I read that part about intution
from your sad little story and based my reply off of that.

So I didn't even know your grandma was dead. So stop fucking
telling me I'm blaming you for your grandma's death. Happy now?

You're an emotional wreck. Go mourn and stop projecting.




/done

You know one psychological concept and so you are trying to apply it towards me because you are butt hurt about what I said about some schizophrenics.

 

[Kgal]

Wow.

People in pain throwing more pain. Doesn't make much sense to me...

I'm closing this down for now so everyone can calm down.