Saving America. Recognizing the traitor and terrorist elements at work against it.

invisible said:
so if there will be a compromise in the American ideal either way, why should the priorities that you determine for organising freedom have greater power to determine that sort of change than the priorities of anyone else?
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Well first off you make it sound as if it is I alone that make these choices or would make them. However, you are right no one person should be able to make those decisions.
 
Sloe Djinn said:
Ok but the measures that you are proposing to safeguard this conception of America inherently destroys it. Ironically, the description in the last line in your post above could be used just as well to describe McCarthyists at their height, though you intended it to describe terrorists.
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That is true. McCarthyism and its ideal would destroy the very thing its trying to protect.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Well first off you make it sound as if it is I alone that make these choices or would make them. However, you are right no one person should be able to make those decisions.
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Is it more democratic for a group of people to exclude another group of people from voting than it is for one individual to exclude a group of people from voting? Either way, a proportion of the people of a country are being excluded from having a say in how the country is run. This is not republican - it's not the the way that America was intended to be.

If there will be a compromise in the American ideal either way, between changes in the organisation of society or becoming something that is not a republic, why should the priorities that one group of people determines for directing freedom have greater power to determine that sort of change than the priorities of any other group of people?

Why is a country that excludes people from voting on the basis of their political convictions more free than a country that excludes people from voting on the basis of their religious beliefs, or their sex?

Was your remark that groups of people should be excluded from voting intended seriously?
 
[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION], you literally just told me that you did not watch the video that is part of the evidence you claim proves that terrorists hate freedom. I feel like this is either a big joke (in that case kudos to you), or you simply adopt for yourself popular ideas and then look for ways to blindly and shallowly support that point of view. I mean there is all this supposed evidence you have but you choose one of the pieces you haven't watched. Lol, like come-on man!
 
invisible said:


Is it more democratic for a group of people to exclude another group of people from voting than it is for one individual to exclude a group of people from voting? Either way, a proportion of the people of a country are being excluded from having a say in how the country is run. This is not republican - it's not the the way that America was intended to be.

If there will be a compromise in the American ideal either way, between changes in the organisation of society or becoming something that is not a republic, why should the priorities that one group of people determines for directing freedom have greater power to determine that sort of change than the priorities of any other group of people?

Why is a country that excludes people from voting on the basis of their political convictions more free than a country that excludes people from voting on the basis of their religious beliefs, or their sex?

Was your remark that groups of people should be excluded from voting intended seriously?
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Good questions. I am assuming that you have been reading some of the other things I have posted here that are not in direct response to the questions you yourself have asked. Have you?
 
the said:
[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION], you literally just told me that you did not watch the video that is part of the evidence you claim proves that terrorists hate freedom. I feel like this is either a big joke (in that case kudos to you), or you simply adopt for yourself popular ideas and then look for ways to blindly and shallowly support that point of view. I mean there is all this supposed evidence you have but you choose one of the pieces you haven't watched. Lol, like come-on man!
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I dont have fast Internet connection. I cant watch video. I have seen and read about what I am talking about but its not like I keep a library of the stuff to provide.
The information to support what I have said is there if you choose to look for it. All you have to do is go to google and type in death to America and then read and watch. After which you can decide if what you have seen is relevant or not.
In the end I would hope you would never take my word for it alone anyway.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Good questions. I am assuming that you have been reading some of the other things I have posted here that are not in direct response to the questions you yourself have asked. Have you?
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I have taken time out of my day to consider the things you have written, and to have composed responses to those things you have written, in a discussion that has taken place between us. As long as you are willing to extend this same courtesy to me, I am happy to continue discussion with you. Until you in turn respond to the things that I have written to you - to the questions that I have posed in response to things that you wrote to me - this is no longer a discussion, and it isn't fair to expect me to continue to make the effort to participate.
 
invisible said:
I have taken time out of my day to consider the things you have written, and to have composed responses to those things you have written, in a discussion that has taken place between us. As long as you are willing to extend this same courtesy to me, I am happy to continue discussion with you. Until you in turn respond to the things that I have written to you - to the questions that I have posed in response to things that you wrote to me - this is no longer a discussion, and it isn't fair to expect me to continue to make the effort to participate.
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I asked a question.
I asked because to some extent I have already answered what you have recently asked in other posts I have made in this thread. However if you do not feel thats satisfactory I will answer your questions directly. It will be later because again it requires typing on my part on something other than a phone.
 
Eventhorizon said:
I asked a question.
I asked because to some extent I have already answered what you have recently asked in other posts I have made in this thread. However if you do not feel thats satisfactory I will answer your questions directly. It will be later because again it requires typing on my part on something other than a phone.
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i hope you dont think that i asked those questions thinking that you had answered them!
 
Eventhorizon said:
I understand what you are saying believe me. But in the end I dont see it as anything more than, a person on the block has the biggest house and people dont like it. What, does that person think they are better than everyone else ect...

Its very easy to lay blame. Oh America has done such bad things. All while overlooking the fact the people saying that are hypocrites themselves. Humans arent perfect. Societies arent perfect. Nothing is perfect. You take the best of what you have and try to build on that. And while not perfect, America is that.
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I am not sure that you really understand. There are more than 10 countries that US invaded, occupied or bombed since 1980. We can use different words or try to justify it but that is simply fact and that is how people of these countries see US. Comparision to who has bigger house on the block does not make any sence - their houses (countries) are destroyed - how you can even compare that?
 
Eventhorizon said:
I understand what you are saying believe me. But in the end I dont see it as anything more than, a person on the block has the biggest house and people dont like it. What, does that person think they are better than everyone else ect...

Its very easy to lay blame. Oh America has done such bad things. All while overlooking the fact the people saying that are hypocrites themselves. Humans arent perfect. Societies arent perfect. Nothing is perfect. You take the best of what you have and try to build on that. And while not perfect, America is that.
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Speaking for myself, i have no investment in accusing the US for it's foreign policy agenda at large. I'm just stating i've seen, and what's widely known. There are always two sides of the coin, but resigning oneself to the big picture by saying this always happens and human nature, it's convenient, but it doesn't really get you anywhere in the end.
But to be fair though, many countries do the same thing, and far before the US, and maybe even nastier nowadays. But that's another subject, and a pretty intrincate one at this point.
 
Eventhorizon said:
I dont have fast Internet connection. I cant watch video. I have seen and read about what I am talking about but its not like I keep a library of the stuff to provide.
The information to support what I have said is there if you choose to look for it. All you have to do is go to google and type in death to America and then read and watch. After which you can decide if what you have seen is relevant or not.
In the end I would hope you would never take my word for it alone anyway.
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yes! Exactly, I don't take your word for it alone. You have produced no evidence besides your own opinion which has been shown to be founded on things you haven't watched!
 
the said:
yes! Exactly, I don't take your word for it alone. You have produced no evidence besides your own opinion which has been shown to be founded on things you haven't watched!
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Please read my post again.
 
[video=youtube;xX6INEs2WmE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX6INEs2WmE[/video]
 
invisible said:
You seem to be consistently evading the questions I asked you. I don't know why, since you're the one who started this thread saying you want to discuss it.
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Its almost as if nobody else wants to experience an echo chamber...
 
I don't mind if people hate America. America seems to do a pretty good job of hating its own people as well as hating anyone that is different from them. I think America has a superiority complex. It's like some weird big narcissist that wants to attack everyone else but can't resolve its own internal conflict.

Maybe that is freedom.
 
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