Should we go to war with Russia to save the economy?

[Roses In The Vineyard]

I don't want to live in a utopian society run by the WEF, where we'll have squat and be happy. Their utopia is not the majority's, obviously.

In order for any sort of utopian society to succeed there would need to be real freedom, real democracy, and accountability.. an equalization of power, if you will. This would also need to involve a system of checks and balances to ensure no one in power is corrupt and all involved have pure and good intentions.

So the answer is, no.

I think people are awake now though, thanks to Corona. And that's a good place to start. If you're asleep at the wheel, you'll happily follow the flute of the leaders right into signing away your own freedoms.

The media is only perpetuating the story those in power are pedaling. Major news is owned by these same corporations, Pfizer, Moderna.. it's all a show.

Their utopia ultimately is an gas chamber and a crematorium.

 

[John K]

I'm sure there are other "reasons" people want to go to war in Russia and feel free to discuss them, but the fact remains that world war 2 definitely helped recover the economy. Can a war with Russia fix this COVID economy bubble we created and should we do it? I don't think we have a choice anyway (hope I'm wrong!) So how excited are you to go to war

It’s strange how quickly the generations forget. A full scale war with Russia could easily lead to a nuclear exchange that would bring civilisation to a full stop for generations. It could easily lead to a mass extinction event. It’s madness to risk this without a genuine existential cause and it certainly wouldn’t lead to an economic renaissance unless both sides constrained such a conflict regardless of who was winning.

I don’t understand how the West persistently mistakes Russia. The Russians aren’t innocents of course, but they have been the victim not the core aggressor in three major conflicts over the last 200 years - they were invaded by Europe each time and tens of millions of their people were killed each time. It’s no wonder they are sensitive to issues in states bordering their own - I remember the US reaction to a similar problem over Soviet missiles in Cuba when Kennedy risked all out nuclear war to prevent it.

Putin is the West’s fault. We should have supported Russia after the Soviet Union fell apart instead of gloating and leaving them to stew. We could have had a friend there instead of a suspicious enemy.

 

[aeon]

Some would argue the recession happened because the wars ended and stopped artificially pumping parts of the market

Likely so, but this is further reason not to. Artificial pumping is almost never a good idea. Consider the current inflation in the United States. COVID was the match, the Fed was the one pumping the petrol.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[aeon]

It’s strange how quickly the generations forget. A full scale war with Russia could easily lead to a nuclear exchange that would bring civilisation to a full stop for generations. It could easily lead to a mass extinction event. It’s madness to risk this without a genuine existential cause and it certainly wouldn’t lead to an economic renaissance unless both sides constrained such a conflict regardless of who was winning.

I don’t understand how the West persistently mistakes Russia. The Russians aren’t innocents of course, but they have been the victim not the core aggressor in three major conflicts over the last 200 years - they were invaded by Europe each time and tens of millions of their people were killed each time. It’s no wonder they are sensitive to issues in states bordering their own - I remember the US reaction to a similar problem over Soviet missiles in Cuba when Kennedy risked all out nuclear war to prevent it.

Putin is the West’s fault. We should have supported Russia after the Soviet Union fell apart instead of gloating and leaving them to stew. We could have had a friend there instead of a suspicious enemy.

I loved the change of focus and increase of the degree of insight with each paragraph, because the last one was such I could almost feel egg on my face.

The US was drunk with gloat when they “tore down that wall.” That intoxication provided the lubricity needed for fast action when Kuwaiti oil wells were burning. Yee-haw!

Cheers,
Ian

 

[philostam]

No, war is not good for the economy, WTF.

That's like saying Covid and natural disaster is good for the economy. It's not. It just leads to more printing, more bubbles across various sectors, and more wealth inequality. It would be disastrous for Europe that gets 40% of their natural gas from Russia.

I believe we'll not be so stupid to escalate this (collectively speaking).

That being said, I am afraid something will give soon. I also think US civil war is a remote possibility in not so distant future. I struggle to see either party accept the next election results.

It's getting really messy, really fast.

 

[slant]

Love the discussion. Sorry if the way I started it was upsetting, I was being cheeky, but I did want to discuss this in length so thank you everyone for replying

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

 

[David54]

No .just no

 

[philostam]

What is war if there is no spoils to be taken? This is essentially what we are talking about today. Yes, we have proxy wars and we have border disputes (Russia - Ukraine, China - Taiwan), but honestly our power projection game developed to such an extent that any war is too expensive. We are risking nuclear winter for very little.

War is natural. When city states developed and amassed a lot of value inside its gates, it was expected that enemies would try to attack it and take the spoils. Nowadays it would make more sense to just resolve conflicts with drones fighting it out...But even that makes no sense, because it would be more like a sport competition with nothing major on the line. We don't have major powers invading each-other anymore trying to take something away from the enemy.

The more natural arena for warfare today seems to be cyber-attacks, cutting oppositions internet cables etc. Non-human war.

We are moving into a digital era where most of the value is digital so there's no need for actual physical/kinetic combat.

 

[Wyote]

If we were smart we'd go to war with Australia using brain control chipped dolphins with laser cannons strapped to their backs.
WHY NOT
America needs to push for ruling the sea somehow or else China will steal all the water.
You can forget about Russia and the economy if there's no water.

 

[Misty]

It’s strange how quickly the generations forget. A full scale war with Russia could easily lead to a nuclear exchange that would bring civilisation to a full stop for generations. It could easily lead to a mass extinction event. It’s madness to risk this without a genuine existential cause and it certainly wouldn’t lead to an economic renaissance unless both sides constrained such a conflict regardless of who was winning.

I don’t understand how the West persistently mistakes Russia. The Russians aren’t innocents of course, but they have been the victim not the core aggressor in three major conflicts over the last 200 years - they were invaded by Europe each time and tens of millions of their people were killed each time. It’s no wonder they are sensitive to issues in states bordering their own - I remember the US reaction to a similar problem over Soviet missiles in Cuba when Kennedy risked all out nuclear war to prevent it.

Putin is the West’s fault. We should have supported Russia after the Soviet Union fell apart instead of gloating and leaving them to stew. We could have had a friend there instead of a suspicious enemy.

This is exactly what I think, as well, John. Not only for the reason I shared earlier, the loss of life for a broken system that doesn't have their soldiers in mind, rather monetary and strategic gain, but for what you said as well. It's terribly dangerous territory to push into without a valid reason.

Honestly, I think it's pride and an idiotic sense of altruism trying to get Ukraine under Nato because they think that's the right & humanitarian thing to do. Meanwhile they could just continue to send aid in all forms to the Ukraine without trying to take it over, ultimately pissing off Putin, whose got loads of Nuclear power.

This is a vid I saved last week which really covers everything you've said here and makes the situation easier for us to truly understand. This man is pretty smart. Too bad Biden probably won't listen to his advice. O.O

 

[TheDeathOfYouAndMe]

I've already made my feelings clear on the matter but from a logistical point of view as well as strategic, Putin is going about it ass backwards.

For starters there is no medical centres or supply lines behind the 100k on the border. Not clever if you're actually serious about getting into a war. War costs money, money he's drastically reduced thanks to effectively turning the gas supply off to those who have the money to pay. This is basically like putting a plastic bag over your face before running a marathon.

If I were the Chinese i'd be well suspicious. If I'm a certain Xi Jingping i'd be awake at night trying to figure out if this is legit or if this is a sneaky way of Europe and Co mobilising mass troops and hardware further east without raising too many eyebrows.

As fascinating as warcraft is, I grew tired of that game a long time ago.

Heres hoping everything settles down.

 

[John K]

This is exactly what I think, as well, John. Not only for the reason I shared earlier, the loss of life for a broken system that doesn't have their soldiers in mind, rather monetary and strategic gain, but for what you said as well. It's terribly dangerous territory to push into without a valid reason.

Honestly, I think it's pride and an idiotic sense of altruism trying to get Ukraine under Nato because they think that's the right & humanitarian thing to do. Meanwhile they could just continue to send aid in all forms to the Ukraine without trying to take it over, ultimately pissing off Putin, whose got loads of Nuclear power.

This is a vid I saved last week which really covers everything you've said here and makes the situation easier for us to truly understand. This man is pretty smart. Too bad Biden probably won't listen to his advice. O.O

Dead right Misty! I have watched about half the video so far too, and I think he hits the mark wonderfully. Our leaders are clueless about stategic thinking and seem to create world policy on the basis of soundbites. I wish we would stop demonising individual leaders of unfriendly states because it stops us seeing their countries' motives clearly and so we make crap decisions - like in Iraq and Afghanistan for example.

 

[just me]

If Russia invades Ukraine, yes. But not to "save the economy." The idea of war saving economies sounds like rhetoric or a talking point with little historical basis.

It almost sounds like the thought of rebuilding with blood and bones.

 

[just me]

I ask Putin to remember WWII. Russia was getting supplies from Churchhill. Big difference in protecting and invading. After Crimea, the buildup looks like a threat. Why?

Then, on Dec. 17, 2021, Vladimir Putin demanded that no former Soviet states, such as Ukraine, be added to NATO – the Western alliance that Ukraine has long expressed a desire to join – and that NATO cease all military cooperation in Eastern Europe. copied The Conversation


Holodomor, man-made famine that convulsed the Soviet republic of Ukraine from 1932 to 1933, peaking in the late spring of 1933. It was part of a broader Soviet famine (1931–34) that also caused mass starvation in the grain-growing regions of Soviet Russia and Kazakhstan. The Ukrainian famine, however, was made deadlier by a series of political decrees and decisions that were aimed mostly or only at Ukraine. In acknowledgement of its scale, the famine of 1932–33 is often called the Holodomor, a term derived from the Ukrainian words for hunger (holod) and extermination (mor).


Holodomor
Dead child on the streets of Kharkiv, Ukraine, during the Holodomor, photo by Alexander Wienerberger, 1933.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

Causes of the famine
The origins of the famine lay in the decision by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin to collectivize agriculture in 1929. Teams of Communist Party agitators forced peasants to relinquish their land, personal property, and sometimes housing to collective farms, and they deported so-called kulaks—wealthier peasants—as well as any peasants who resisted collectivization altogether. Collectivization led to a drop in production, the disorganization of the rural economy, and food shortages. It also sparked a series of peasant rebellions, including armed uprisings, in some parts of Ukraine.


Joseph Stalin
Joseph Stalin.
Library of Congress, Washington, D.C. (neg. no. LC-USW33- 019081-C)

Holodomor
Victim of the Holodomor lying on a sidewalk in Kharkiv, Ukraine, photo by Alexander Wienerberger, 1932 or 1933.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

READ MORE ON THIS TOPIC
Ukraine: The famine of 1932–33 (Holodomor)
The result of Stalin’s policies was the Great Famine (Holodomor) of 1932–33—a man-made demographic catastrophe unprecedented...
The rebellions worried Stalin because they were unfolding in provinces which had, a decade earlier, fought against the Red Army during the Russian Civil War. He was also concerned by anger and resistance to the state agricultural policy within the Ukrainian Communist Party. “If we don’t make an effort now to improve the situation in Ukraine,” he wrote to his colleague Lazar Kaganovich in August 1932, “we may lose Ukraine.” That autumn the Soviet Politburo, the elite leadership of the Soviet Communist Party, took a series of decisions that widened and deepened the famine in the Ukrainian countryside. Farms, villages, and whole towns in Ukraine were placed on blacklists and prevented from receiving food. Peasants were forbidden to leave the Ukrainian republic in search of food. Despite growing starvation, food requisitions were increased and aid was not provided in sufficient quantities. The crisis reached its peak in the winter of 1932–33, when organized groups of police and communist apparatchiks ransacked the homes of peasants and took everything edible, from crops to personal food supplies to pets. Hunger and fear drove these actions, but they were reinforced by more than a decade of hateful and conspiratorial rhetoric emanating from the highest levels of the Kremlin.


Holodomor
Empty village in the Kharkiv region, Ukraine, photo by Alexander Wienerberger, 1933. Its population either succumbed to the effects of the Holodomor or left in search of food.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

Holodomor
Emaciated horse during the Holodomor, photo by Alexander Wienerberger.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

From famine to extermination
The result of Stalin’s campaign was a catastrophe. In spring 1933 death rates in Ukraine spiked. Between 1931 and 1934 at least 5 million people perished of hunger all across the U.S.S.R. Among them, according to a study conducted by a team of Ukrainian demographers, were at least 3.9 million Ukrainians. Police archives contain multiple descriptions of instances of cannibalism as well as lawlessness, theft, and lynching. Mass graves were dug across the countryside. Hunger also affected the urban population, though many were able to survive thanks to ration cards. Still, in Ukraine’s largest cities, corpses could be seen on the street.


Holodomor
Hungry Ukrainian peasants in search of food during the Holodomor, photo by Alexander Wienerberger.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

Holodomor
Ukrainians lining up to trade valuables for bread at a state-run “Torgsyn” shop, photo by Alexander Wienerberger.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer
The famine was accompanied by a broader assault on Ukrainian identity. While peasants were dying by the millions, agents of the Soviet secret police were targeting the Ukrainian political establishment and intelligentsia. The famine provided cover for a campaign of repression and persecution that was carried out against Ukrainian culture and Ukrainian religious leaders. The official policy of Ukrainization, which had encouraged the use of the Ukrainian language, was effectively halted. Moreover, anyone connected to the short-lived Ukrainian People’s Republic—an independent government that had been declared in June 1917 in the wake of the February Revolution but was dismantled after the Bolsheviks conquered Ukrainian territory—was subjected to vicious reprisals. All those targeted by this campaign were liable to be publicly vilified, jailed, sent to the Gulag (a system of Soviet prisons and forced-labour camps), or executed. Knowing that this Russification program would inevitably reach him, Mykola Skrypnyk, one of the best-known leaders of the Ukrainian Communist Party, committed suicide rather than submit to one of Stalin’s show trials.


Holodomor
Victim of the Holodomor, Kharkiv, Ukraine, photo by Alexander Wienerberger, 1933.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

Holodomor
Victim of the Holodomor, Kharkiv, Ukraine, 1933, photo by Alexander Wienerberger.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer
As the famine was happening, news of it was deliberately silenced by Soviet bureaucrats. Party officials did not mention it in public. Western journalists based in Moscow were instructed not to write about it. One of the most famous Moscow correspondents at the time, Walter Duranty of The New York Times, went out of his way to dismiss reports of the famine when they were published by a young freelancer, Gareth Jones, as he “thought Mr. Jones’s judgment was somewhat hasty.” Jones was murdered under suspicious circumstances in 1935 in Japanese-occupied Mongolia. Stalin himself went so far as to repress the results of a census taken in 1937; the administrators of that census were arrested and murdered, in part because the figures revealed the decimation of Ukraine’s population.


Holodomor
Victim of the Holodomor, Kharkiv, Ukraine, photo by Alexander Wienerberger.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer
Although the famine was discussed during the Nazi occupation of Ukraine in World War II, it became taboo again during the postwar years. The first public mention of it in the Soviet Union was in 1986, in the aftermath of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant disaster. That disaster too was initially kept secret by Soviet authorities.


Assessment
Because the famine was so deadly, and because it was officially denied by the Kremlin for more than half a century, it has played a large role in Ukrainian public memory, particularly since independence. Ukrainian poet Ivan Drach was the first to speak publicly about the famine, in 1986, after the Chernobyl disaster, citing it as an example of how damaging official silence can be. Monuments commemorating the Holodomor have been erected by the Ukrainian government as well as by the Ukrainian diaspora, and Holodomor Remembrance Day is observed around the world on the fourth Saturday of November. Ukraine has also invested in research on the famine.


Holodomor
Mass graves filled with victims of the Holodomor, Kharkiv, Ukraine, photo by Alexander Wienerberger, 1933.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

Holodomor
Sign in Russian that reads, “The burying of people is strictly prohibited here,” photo by Alexander Wienerberger. The Holodomor claimed so many lives that the interment of the victims became an issue.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer
By early 2019, 16 countries as well as the Vatican had recognized the Holodomor as a genocide, and both houses of the United States Congress had passed resolutions declaring that “Joseph Stalin and those around him committed genocide against the Ukrainians in 1932–1933.” copied

Anne Applebaum

History has shown us what measures Russia will take (or did take). Ukraine voted for their sovereignty. Once again, Russia is threatening. It is clearly up to Ukraine, and other countries, what they do.

All this, and we were helping to feed Russia during WWII. Joined forces sank Germany's pride to keep the supply chain open during the winter. It is clear Russia has no need of defensive forces along Ukraine's border. The world is not after Russia now. Russia holds that card in their hat.

 

[slant]

I ask Putin to remember WWII. Russia was getting supplies from Churchhill. Big difference in protecting and invading. After Crimea, the buildup looks like a threat. Why?

Then, on Dec. 17, 2021, Vladimir Putin demanded that no former Soviet states, such as Ukraine, be added to NATO – the Western alliance that Ukraine has long expressed a desire to join – and that NATO cease all military cooperation in Eastern Europe. copied The Conversation


Holodomor, man-made famine that convulsed the Soviet republic of Ukraine from 1932 to 1933, peaking in the late spring of 1933. It was part of a broader Soviet famine (1931–34) that also caused mass starvation in the grain-growing regions of Soviet Russia and Kazakhstan. The Ukrainian famine, however, was made deadlier by a series of political decrees and decisions that were aimed mostly or only at Ukraine. In acknowledgement of its scale, the famine of 1932–33 is often called the Holodomor, a term derived from the Ukrainian words for hunger (holod) and extermination (mor).


Holodomor
Dead child on the streets of Kharkiv, Ukraine, during the Holodomor, photo by Alexander Wienerberger, 1933.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

Causes of the famine
The origins of the famine lay in the decision by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin to collectivize agriculture in 1929. Teams of Communist Party agitators forced peasants to relinquish their land, personal property, and sometimes housing to collective farms, and they deported so-called kulaks—wealthier peasants—as well as any peasants who resisted collectivization altogether. Collectivization led to a drop in production, the disorganization of the rural economy, and food shortages. It also sparked a series of peasant rebellions, including armed uprisings, in some parts of Ukraine.


Joseph Stalin
Joseph Stalin.
Library of Congress, Washington, D.C. (neg. no. LC-USW33- 019081-C)

Holodomor
Victim of the Holodomor lying on a sidewalk in Kharkiv, Ukraine, photo by Alexander Wienerberger, 1932 or 1933.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

READ MORE ON THIS TOPIC
Ukraine: The famine of 1932–33 (Holodomor)
The result of Stalin’s policies was the Great Famine (Holodomor) of 1932–33—a man-made demographic catastrophe unprecedented...
The rebellions worried Stalin because they were unfolding in provinces which had, a decade earlier, fought against the Red Army during the Russian Civil War. He was also concerned by anger and resistance to the state agricultural policy within the Ukrainian Communist Party. “If we don’t make an effort now to improve the situation in Ukraine,” he wrote to his colleague Lazar Kaganovich in August 1932, “we may lose Ukraine.” That autumn the Soviet Politburo, the elite leadership of the Soviet Communist Party, took a series of decisions that widened and deepened the famine in the Ukrainian countryside. Farms, villages, and whole towns in Ukraine were placed on blacklists and prevented from receiving food. Peasants were forbidden to leave the Ukrainian republic in search of food. Despite growing starvation, food requisitions were increased and aid was not provided in sufficient quantities. The crisis reached its peak in the winter of 1932–33, when organized groups of police and communist apparatchiks ransacked the homes of peasants and took everything edible, from crops to personal food supplies to pets. Hunger and fear drove these actions, but they were reinforced by more than a decade of hateful and conspiratorial rhetoric emanating from the highest levels of the Kremlin.


Holodomor
Empty village in the Kharkiv region, Ukraine, photo by Alexander Wienerberger, 1933. Its population either succumbed to the effects of the Holodomor or left in search of food.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

Holodomor
Emaciated horse during the Holodomor, photo by Alexander Wienerberger.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

From famine to extermination
The result of Stalin’s campaign was a catastrophe. In spring 1933 death rates in Ukraine spiked. Between 1931 and 1934 at least 5 million people perished of hunger all across the U.S.S.R. Among them, according to a study conducted by a team of Ukrainian demographers, were at least 3.9 million Ukrainians. Police archives contain multiple descriptions of instances of cannibalism as well as lawlessness, theft, and lynching. Mass graves were dug across the countryside. Hunger also affected the urban population, though many were able to survive thanks to ration cards. Still, in Ukraine’s largest cities, corpses could be seen on the street.


Holodomor
Hungry Ukrainian peasants in search of food during the Holodomor, photo by Alexander Wienerberger.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

Holodomor
Ukrainians lining up to trade valuables for bread at a state-run “Torgsyn” shop, photo by Alexander Wienerberger.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer
The famine was accompanied by a broader assault on Ukrainian identity. While peasants were dying by the millions, agents of the Soviet secret police were targeting the Ukrainian political establishment and intelligentsia. The famine provided cover for a campaign of repression and persecution that was carried out against Ukrainian culture and Ukrainian religious leaders. The official policy of Ukrainization, which had encouraged the use of the Ukrainian language, was effectively halted. Moreover, anyone connected to the short-lived Ukrainian People’s Republic—an independent government that had been declared in June 1917 in the wake of the February Revolution but was dismantled after the Bolsheviks conquered Ukrainian territory—was subjected to vicious reprisals. All those targeted by this campaign were liable to be publicly vilified, jailed, sent to the Gulag (a system of Soviet prisons and forced-labour camps), or executed. Knowing that this Russification program would inevitably reach him, Mykola Skrypnyk, one of the best-known leaders of the Ukrainian Communist Party, committed suicide rather than submit to one of Stalin’s show trials.


Holodomor
Victim of the Holodomor, Kharkiv, Ukraine, photo by Alexander Wienerberger, 1933.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

Holodomor
Victim of the Holodomor, Kharkiv, Ukraine, 1933, photo by Alexander Wienerberger.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer
As the famine was happening, news of it was deliberately silenced by Soviet bureaucrats. Party officials did not mention it in public. Western journalists based in Moscow were instructed not to write about it. One of the most famous Moscow correspondents at the time, Walter Duranty of The New York Times, went out of his way to dismiss reports of the famine when they were published by a young freelancer, Gareth Jones, as he “thought Mr. Jones’s judgment was somewhat hasty.” Jones was murdered under suspicious circumstances in 1935 in Japanese-occupied Mongolia. Stalin himself went so far as to repress the results of a census taken in 1937; the administrators of that census were arrested and murdered, in part because the figures revealed the decimation of Ukraine’s population.


Holodomor
Victim of the Holodomor, Kharkiv, Ukraine, photo by Alexander Wienerberger.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer
Although the famine was discussed during the Nazi occupation of Ukraine in World War II, it became taboo again during the postwar years. The first public mention of it in the Soviet Union was in 1986, in the aftermath of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant disaster. That disaster too was initially kept secret by Soviet authorities.


Assessment
Because the famine was so deadly, and because it was officially denied by the Kremlin for more than half a century, it has played a large role in Ukrainian public memory, particularly since independence. Ukrainian poet Ivan Drach was the first to speak publicly about the famine, in 1986, after the Chernobyl disaster, citing it as an example of how damaging official silence can be. Monuments commemorating the Holodomor have been erected by the Ukrainian government as well as by the Ukrainian diaspora, and Holodomor Remembrance Day is observed around the world on the fourth Saturday of November. Ukraine has also invested in research on the famine.


Holodomor
Mass graves filled with victims of the Holodomor, Kharkiv, Ukraine, photo by Alexander Wienerberger, 1933.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer

Holodomor
Sign in Russian that reads, “The burying of people is strictly prohibited here,” photo by Alexander Wienerberger. The Holodomor claimed so many lives that the interment of the victims became an issue.
Diocesan Archive of Vienna (Diözesanarchiv Wien)/BA Innitzer
By early 2019, 16 countries as well as the Vatican had recognized the Holodomor as a genocide, and both houses of the United States Congress had passed resolutions declaring that “Joseph Stalin and those around him committed genocide against the Ukrainians in 1932–1933.” copied

Anne Applebaum

History has shown us what measures Russia will take (or did take). Ukraine voted for their sovereignty. Once again, Russia is threatening. It is clearly up to Ukraine, and other countries, what they do.

All this, and we were helping to feed Russia during WWII. Joined forces sank Germany's pride to keep the supply chain open during the winter. It is clear Russia has no need of defensive forces along Ukraine's border. The world is not after Russia now. Russia holds that card in their hat.

Thank you for your extremely detailed post, love the pictures, good info

 

[InfernoMink]

I’ll never vote Yes on Wars or conflicts that kill innocent people and animals just for some cocksucking economy recovery.
The entire things is a joke.
It’s reported that Billionaires increased their wealth SIGNIFICANTLY thanks to COVID.
But now I have to hear about inflation just as Americans, finally are getting a decent minimum wage? it’s all a fucking joke.
Imagine China saying, fuck it, let’s invade Hawaii and start a conflict with the USA so our economy can bounce back from Covid. Plus it’s never the economy, it’s just the wealth of a handful of people.

 

[Misty]

Dead right Misty! I have watched about half the video so far too, and I think he hits the mark wonderfully. Our leaders are clueless about stategic thinking and seem to create world policy on the basis of soundbites. I wish we would stop demonising individual leaders of unfriendly states because it stops us seeing their countries' motives clearly and so we make crap decisions - like in Iraq and Afghanistan for example.

It's a great vid, really. Although, with Iraq etc, there was political and financial gain / oil to glean for the US, and lies told about weapons of mass destruction in order to garner civilian support.

I think it's very stupid.

You should check out the full interview Putin gave in 2018 where he stated clearly, like a child, that the minute the US pulled out of the treaty in 2002, citing 9/11, that he pulled out as a direct and defensive reaction.

He feels threatened. And now, he builds his own nuclear arsenal, in direct response to what he sees as America's out right nuclear threat.

He says, you did it first, America. We had dismantled and were holding to the treaty. Not helped now either by the second treaty with Russia, which Trump removed the US from in 2019.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

This is an age restricted documentary from the 2000s with first hand accounts of those who survived the hell that was the Soviet Union. The Soviet Story is well worth watching for any history buff while for many more as a warning of what totalitarianism is truly like.

 

[just me]

Russia cannot protect a place in Russia while invading Ukraine. Too much territory. They are placing a lot of eggs in one basket. He is placing Crimea very close to a war zone, and may end up losing it, too. Putin is not paranoid. He took Crimea. That has induced more want of waterfront property. He went to talk with Germany, who is now stating no help for Ukraine. I think we should be planning a counter-attack, just in case Putin goes crazy with lust.

Миру это не нужно или нужно?
Miru eto ne nuzhno ili nuzhno?

Աշխարհը դա անում է, թե՞ դա անում է:
Ashkharhy da anum e, t’e՞ da anum e:

The world does not need this, or does it?