Show me an ENTP

OMG I also had a relationship with an ENTP/ Narcissist. IT was terrible, traumatic. I wont date an ENTP now. It's hard to tell the difference.
 
For anyone that doesn't read the stickies on top:

ENTP/ESFJ: Ne/Fe or Fe/Ne--Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This type often behaves impulsively and manipulatively, needing constant approval and admiration from others, running around investing in new thing after new thing but never developing the self-confidence of a strong subjective perspective. Fe used negatively may use its awareness of the cultural standards of others to intentionally offend or upset them, in order to service Ne's curiosity about the patterns in their responses. If Ti/Si were working properly, it would give the user a balancing sense of personal, subjective importance and free him of his dependence upon the adulation and unconditional acceptance of others. (Horrible example: Patrick Bateman from American Psycho.)
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Now geez, I know not everyone of a certain personality has a disorder, but if you look at the list of possible disorders people can suffer from, this one is ugly. As this article mentions, these people are not pleasant to be around and create a lot of fallout among those around them. I forgot who on this forum posted it, but someone mentioned living with a family member who suffered from this and also having spent three years of my career with one, I can verify that they do leave scars.

I can go through the rest of that list above and would much rather deal with any single one of those other disorders rather than risk crossing paths with this type of a person again. Call my gun shy. I do my best to avoid anyone that comes across like that and it's usually not until after the fact that I fit the pieces together and realize where on that MBTI scale they fall. Everyone has their quirks but this is such an in-your-face one to run across, it's hard to look the other way.

I know a few forum members are ENTP's but online forums rarely give a good representation of a person. I mean, Deathjam is our Tech yet his posts are usually short and brief. Hell, I even played Minecraft with the guy but couldn't tell you much about his personality :)

[MENTION=5104]Gecko[/MENTION] I wonder if that isn't referring to the Inverted Narcissist
 
Lerxst said:
For anyone that doesn't read the stickies on top:



Now geez, I know not everyone of a certain personality has a disorder, but if you look at the list of possible disorders people can suffer from, this one is ugly. As this article mentions, these people are not pleasant to be around and create a lot of fallout among those around them. I forgot who on this forum posted it, but someone mentioned living with a family member who suffered from this and also having spent three years of my career with one, I can verify that they do leave scars.

I can go through the rest of that list above and would much rather deal with any single one of those other disorders rather than risk crossing paths with this type of a person again. Call my gun shy. I do my best to avoid anyone that comes across like that and it's usually not until after the fact that I fit the pieces together and realize where on that MBTI scale they fall. Everyone has their quirks but this is such an in-your-face one to run across, it's hard to look the other way.

I know a few forum members are ENTP's but online forums rarely give a good representation of a person. I mean, Deathjam is our Tech yet his posts are usually short and brief. Hell, I even played Minecraft with the guy but couldn't tell you much about his personality :)

[MENTION=5104]Gecko[/MENTION] I wonder if that isn't referring to the Inverted Narcissist
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Despite being subjective, you do have a point. Narcissists aren't fun, indeed. Anyway after thinking about what you said in the original post, there's something I realized.

If someone is a douchebag or a really nice guy, that's a matter of character, and not of personality.

For example INFJs have Ni, Fe, Ti, Se. This is their order of preference, from the most used to the rarely used. The functions are defined as what they are, BUT...

Nobody ever defined how do INFJs USE them.

I can use my Ne-Fe for evil, I can use it for good, provided these are two subjective terms... Well, that's when things get fishy. Real fishy.
 
I'm quite sad someone gifted with intelligence and sensibility decided to take it on MBTI for being a clue in spotting assholery. I too do the same thing and I am often proved wrong. (after coming out from a 3 yr long relationship I say things like: holy shit! never date an INTJ! their Fi is going to stab you in the back right when you need some dignity; or the goddamn Ti is so stiff and blind it would never reach the intellectual understanding I need to feel validation; it drags me down! etc)

so this woman was, first of all, mentally ill. she was sick (still is probably?) - that's all you need to know to hate her; and you sure hate someone you had great expectancy from. only someone close to you can hurt you, and they will eventually. how you deal with it is what matters; so add MBTI, religion, skin color, political view to it, it still won't change a damn thing, it won't get to the root of the problem and won't show you a way to avoid people like her. avoid mentally ill people. that's all; do that and you won't have to look for other labels;
also nobody's perfect, we all have our sickness; and how InvisibleJim (hello INTJ!) put it, choose your ENTPs wisely

-with sympathy and respect,
paradanmellow/ENTP
 
photo.jpg


What do I win?
 
Well, I will avoid anything that was like him. Absolutely anything. He was an ENTP and he was an atheist. I'm telling you this man was pure evil. It's hard to explain, this wasn't just cheating or you know the occasional bad things people do to each other. He made himself out to be a man with morale, honor and character and everyone believed him but I got to see the nasty truth. Everything about him was a lie. Everything! He had no empathy, my emotional state didn't exist to him at all, he used me for everything he could, my energy, finances, ideas, everything he sucked from me with charm and manipulation more subtle than The Serpent in the Adam myth, and his rages when I would occasionally hold a mirror up were like the rages of Cain when his false self was stripped away. My encounter with him was like an encounter of the dark side of humanity. I am glad for the experience now that I'm far enough past it but gone forever is any shadow of naivete of what the worst people in this world are capable of while they appear to be upstanding citizens to the rest of the world.

Maybe I'll change my mind after more time has gone by. Lol.
 
oddgirlout said:
I love the analytical side. I don't think I have had a more fulfilling and thought provoking conversations repeatedly with any other type. I admire the drive and almost obsessive quality over details related to something they are passionate about. I find them challenging, witty and fun to be around. Some can appear arrogant, disinterested or opinionated but I find that most of the time the arrogant quality comes from knowing something to the core, through and through. It's not meant to be arrogant. Disinterested is sometimes code for I can't relate to this and I am thinking and observing. And every opinion I have ever heard from an ENTP is so thoroughly researched it typically results in agreeing to disagree. I also like the debate quality. The idea of arguing a point for satisfaction, say about current events. Overall I think I love me some ENTP.
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Probably the only helpful post in the entire thread.
 
[MENTION=2890]Lerxst[/MENTION]

Yeah, I was in love with my narc until I realized they were FAKE! My narc would never admit fault even when he was wrong. lol @ researched. Fuuuug no. Most people just assume they are brilliant and don't challenge what they say. He was wrong about a lot of shit. We were debating abortion and I quickly pointed out how he was wrong about something and he slipped into a narcissistic rage that caused his ultimate downfall. Just that one remark I made! They will try to lie their way out of a paper bag or subtly manipulate you to change the subject so you forget they were wrong OR they will insult you and turn the debate that way. Pathetic. They will never apologize even for the most jaw dropping callous things. His military service was a lie, everything about him was a lie! It was pathetic and he lost in the end. I won. I got to walk away with my dignity and I still got to win. Everyone saw through the mask and he was and is one of the most pathetic human beings I've ever come in contact with. I feel so sorry for him though! I don't hate him! He has created his own hell on earth. His mere existence is pathetic and sad. He was a lawyer, not now. He spent 9 months in jail for a violent crime (narcissistic RAGE) two DUIs later and he's calling me wanting to move in with ME (of course he keeps trying, I was born into money) Life has a way of taking someone down, even from the very top, the guy had everything. People who do not know them intimately dont know their true side because the mask does not slip around everyone. I can see for your own benefit being cautious of ENTP until things settle down, you will always be on the watch for those with narcissistic traits. It's just not worth it. I wish I could share some of the crazy things that happened towards the end.
 
First of all, -do- remember that there are good ENTPs and bad ENTPs. It's possible you just had an extremely bad luck in meeting this person. I'm sorry that you had to experience it.... but do try again. Meet another people; another ENTP, or another type, really.

The moment we set our sights within the perspective of tiny 16 little types, we filled in the blanks. A whole lot of blanks. <3
All for the sake of adjusting their totality to fit one of 16 tiny boxes.

Sometimes it helps, though.

And looking within the context of your truths; do remember than ENTPs and ENFPs's inferior function is Si.
a.k.a, they need to learn how to settle down a little bit. Learning...say, Modesty, humility....or really, anything that doesn't stroke their own ego or protect it by affecting other people's ego or truth. ENTP is indeed equal to ESFJ in that matter; they rule by swimming through other people.
The same way us INFJs need to step off our moral high horse.

But in this case, I do suspect you have to find....a healthy ENTP, before making further judgment.
It's not "[insert type here]'s function is ugly and bad", it's "This particular person used their functions badly."

*hugs*
 
You can't love, or have a healthy relationship with someone with NPD and come out unscathed. Narcissism and ENTP are not the same thing, traits from the former are not ENTP traits.

At our best we are fascinated by understanding people, enthusiastic, drawn to new adventures and experiences, have endless ideas we want to share, we embrace life, are eternal optimists, quick on our feet and can do all of that without hurting or stepping on others in the process.

There are narcissistic ENTPs out there (as with other types) and those traits tend to be taken as type related traits when there are enough in one place, or they are louder than those without NPD.

We can be cocky and seem very self-assured, this is different to being conceited and selfish.

We love debate but the motivations for what can be seen as argumentative is not the same, it's how we learn and see other points of view, we want opposition.

We have very flexible morals, we are not amoral, it's just that we want to consider the individual circumstances surrounding any specific situation, our base point is Ne-Ti which paints everything grey-scale and entails endless possibilities for any one scenario, so we need detail to know what is best, and we still use Fe to consider what is best for others, not just ourselves.

We can have difficulties with understanding or accepting our emotions until we are older, although are generally better than other NTs, but we are not cruel.

And so on.

You had a bad experience, she sounds like a piece of work, and you don't have to dig on the ENTPs you meet, but writing off a type shows closed mindedness on your behalf, you state in the OP that you hate the type and want to change that, well wanting to change that view should be enough, no one should have to convince you that every type has their saints and their fuckwits.

Bottom line: You met someone who likely had NPD, they are not representative of ENTPs.
 
In summary: ENTPs dont have type specific tendancies and anyone who says so clearly has a personal problem. This is because what the ENTP says is right and what other people say is right is only right when they are in agreement with said ENTP.

Concise summary Narcissistic tendacies within.

What do I win?

If its a date with Shai'gar I pass.
 
Of course it's way more logical to conclude that ENTP is simply another term for NPD. Kudos on pointing that out.

Glad to see you still love ENTPs.
 
Lurker said:
Of course it's way more logical to conclude that ENTP is simply another term for NPD. Kudos on pointing that out.

Glad to see you still love ENTPs.
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deathjam = good ENTP
many others = bad ENTP

ENTP is a cognitive preference which implies a potential for NPD. Scratching the surface of overly avid ENTPs like yourself reveals the tendancy of 'my type is flawless because I said so' and it is narcissistic by definition.

Just as INTJ is a setup which implies potential for meglomania.

If you dislike these traits the take extra care when dealing with this types.

Ignoring the answer because you dislike it is not an appropriate way to advise people.
 
InvisibleJim said:
In summary: ENTPs dont have type specific tendancies and anyone who says so clearly has a personal problem. This is because what the ENTP says is right and what other people say is right is only right when they are in agreement with said ENTP.

Concise summary Narcissistic tendacies within.

What do I win?

If its a date with Shai'gar I pass.
Click to expand...
Oh, God.The dissection took a route to meta?
What can I say; I suppose. I love this move, regardless of the value or the truth.

For the truth, potential is the key here.

To put it quite bluntly (and talking about ideal MBTI world) the bricks to build are already there in an ENTP's personality. NOT that they will always be a disorder or a NPD, but as life lessons go, the assumption is that ENTPs are one of the quickest to develop NPD; thus the assumed abundance.
It's like INFJs and our martyr complex.

Of course, the one who sees also plays a part on this.

I believe us who looked at the good and us who looked at the bad are only looking at the different side of the person. It's best to take note of both?
 
InvisibleJim said:
deathjam = good ENTP
many others = bad ENTP

ENTP is a cognitive preference which implies a potential for NPD. Scratching the surface of overly avid ENTPs like yourself reveals the tendancy of 'my type is flawless because I said so' and it is narcissistic by definition.

Just as INTJ is a setup which implies potential for meglomania.

If you dislike these traits the take extra care when dealing with this types.

Ignoring the answer because you dislike it is not an appropriate way to advise people.
Click to expand...


Makes logical sense. I will think about this in the future.

Question: Why don't introverted types with the same functions as ENTPs (ISFJs, INTPs) don't have as much potential for narcissism? I don't think narcissism is exclusive to extraverted people, is it?
 
Gecko said:
Makes logical sense. I will think about this in the future.Question: Why don't introverted types with the same functions as ENTPs (ISFJs, INTPs) don't have as much potential for narcissism? I don't think narcissism is exclusive to extraverted people, is it?
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ENTP/ESTP has Fi point of least resistance, therefore they are inclined to observe and 'game' the ethical situation based upon others responses to their behaviour without attempting self introspection. If others complain, shrink the sample group to ignore those people because they must be 'wrong'. Eventually the sample group diminishes to the point of silliness as any sort of guide regarding how to do anything

.i.e. that which can be got away with is 'fair game' e.g. excessive vanity coupled with excessive opportunism. Because it is socially appropriate so how can anyone say they are wrong?

Of course this is a judgement on a group, individuals are of course individuals and MBTI type does not preclude the condition of the individual similar to INTJ megalomania which is viewed as instantly rejecting all foreign opinions/positions as not having merit.

According to the source of all accumulated human knowledge (?wikipedia?) you can identify quite a few ENTPs who stray towards the destructive side other NT and ST and SF and ST types don't leap quite so readily into the other side of the box due to their cognitive arrangements.

[TABLE="class: wikitable, width: 1"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Characteristic[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Healthy Narcissism[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Destructive Narcissism[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Self-confidence[/TD]
[TD]High outward self-confidence in line with reality[/TD]
[TD]An unrealistic sense of superiority ("Grandiose")[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Desire for power, wealth and admiration[/TD]
[TD]May enjoy power[/TD]
[TD]Pursues power at all costs, lacks normal inhibitions in its pursuit[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Relationships[/TD]
[TD]Real concern for others and their ideas; does not exploit or devalue others[/TD]
[TD]Concerns limited to expressing socially appropriate response when convenient; devalues and exploits others without remorse[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ability to follow a consistent path[/TD]
[TD]Has values; follows through on plans[/TD]
[TD]Lacks values; easily bored; often changes course[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Foundation[/TD]
[TD]Healthy childhood with support for self-esteem and appropriate limits on behaviour towards others[/TD]
[TD]Traumatic childhood undercutting true sense of self-esteem and/or learning that he/she doesn't need to be considerate of others[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
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Gecko said:
Makes logical sense. I will think about this in the future.

Question: Why don't introverted types with the same functions as ENTPs (ISFJs, INTPs) don't have as much potential for narcissism? I don't think narcissism is exclusive to extraverted people, is it?
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Aren't one big quality of narcissist is the ability and the want -- nay, impulsive need to, in short, brag?

There must have been introverted narcissist, but I'd say they are either a) silent enough not to get recognized, or b) overpowered by other, non-narcissist, but definitely LOUDER people.
 
InvisibleJim said:
ENTP/ESTP has Fi point of least resistance, therefore they are inclined to observe and 'game' the ethical situation based upon others responses to their behaviour without attempting self introspection. If others complain, shrink the sample group to ignore those people because they must be 'wrong'. Eventually the sample group diminishes to the point of silliness as any sort of guide regarding how to do anything

.i.e. that which can be got away with is 'fair game' e.g. excessive vanity coupled with excessive opportunism. Of course this is a judgement on a group, individuals are of course individuals and MBTI type does not preclude the condition of the individual similar to INTJ megalomania which is viewed as instantly rejecting all foreign opinions/positions as not having merit.

According to the source of all accumulated human knowledge (?wikipedia?) you can identify quite a few ENTPs who stray towards the destructive side other NT and ST and SF and ST types don't leap quite so readily into the other side of the box due to their cognitive arrangements.

[TABLE="class: wikitable, width: 1"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Characteristic[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Healthy Narcissism[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Destructive Narcissism[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Self-confidence[/TD]
[TD]High outward self-confidence in line with reality[/TD]
[TD]An unrealistic sense of superiority ("Grandiose")[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Desire for power, wealth and admiration[/TD]
[TD]May enjoy power[/TD]
[TD]Pursues power at all costs, lacks normal inhibitions in its pursuit[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Relationships[/TD]
[TD]Real concern for others and their ideas; does not exploit or devalue others[/TD]
[TD]Concerns limited to expressing socially appropriate response when convenient; devalues and exploits others without remorse[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ability to follow a consistent path[/TD]
[TD]Has values; follows through on plans[/TD]
[TD]Lacks values; easily bored; often changes course[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Foundation[/TD]
[TD]Healthy childhood with support for self-esteem and appropriate limits on behaviour towards others[/TD]
[TD]Traumatic childhood undercutting true sense of self-esteem and/or learning that he/she doesn't need to be considerate of others[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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Excellent post. Thank you. I had no idea about healthy narcissism, which is something I seem to have now that I think about it. Thanks again for the information.


Trifoilum said:
Aren't one big quality of narcissist is the ability and the want -- nay, impulsive need to, in short, brag?

There must have been introverted narcissist, but I'd say they are either a) silent enough not to get recognized, or b) overpowered by other, non-narcissist, but definitely LOUDER people.
Click to expand...

I thought narcissism was a huge amount of self-love, which can be something an introvert can have. But it's more than that, according to Jim's posts.
 
Gecko said:
I thought narcissism was a huge amount of self-love, which can be something an introvert can have. But it's more than that, according to Jim's posts.
Click to expand...
It's one of the cause, one of the form, but not always. Yes, it's more than that.
 
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