Spirituality, Atheism, Religion, and Saving the World:

[54192&#cmy]

The most innovative and brilliant minds in history have always been shunned by their contemporaries. Always! That's just how it goes. I wasn't born fringe, society made me out to be that way because that's it's nature. Thus, we walk a fine line that often does lead to isolation and ridicule. The more extreme you are, the more you have to prove. [MENTION=10252]say what[/MENTION], you know I'm about a decade or more away from publishing this because I've told you so! You will have all the proof you desire in due time. [MENTION=95]efromm[/MENTION], till then, I mean nothing to this world. It is not a welcoming place. I'm putting everything I am into this. I live to save the world. -And the world is more than happy to kick me to the curb as I do so. Ain't that a bitch? Oh well, I'm not here to win popularity contests. Fuck all those who don't get me or what I'm doing, I honestly have more important things to worry about.

The world need spiritual activists. My species, my planet is more important that my comfort. I will not try to convince you to believe the same but I do hope you'll consider not giving up. I need you; I will get nothing done alone.

Well quite frankly I am stuck in a never ending depression. One that I cannot escape from. It's been harder than I thought to get over my own losses. Being homeless and my family being homeless has been a death blow. Having supposed Christian's judging me has put me down this hole. Most of my life actually. So keeping the energy level up to combat these things has eventually worn me down. I understand the fuck it who cares attitude. Problem is no one cares either. My problems are my own to make and to solve. Unfortunately to solve my problems I need people. There was a time when I felt a great connection and that I was moving forward. All that seems to have been lost. And when I look at history and humanity I can see that the same things just keep happening over and over. People cause all of mans problems. If only they could solve them. But I do not think that we really can. The diversity of peoples thinking is a block to progress. And a persons beliefs lead to judgement shame and prejudice. When I am out in the world and talking with others I listen to them and try to help with my words if I can. That is about all I can do. I cannot ask for help myself because those that I see are way worse off than I am. I can always seem to find another who needs more than I do. And when I do help well I do the work and get no money cause they need it more. When you are a failure in your own life it makes it very hard to dig yourself out of any hole that your in. At least that is true for me. I cannot speak for anyone else....

 

[Rift Zone]

I'm interested in hearing more about your world class education. How much study have you put into religious studies? Am I able to question you on your [sarcasm] extensive [/sarcasm] knowledge on such topics? Do you have any published work?

I have over three decades worth of intense study in all areas of existence. You may humble yourself now or I will do it for you. No published works, as of yet. You may question me if you like.

How exactly does your spiritual views differ from, say, pantheism?

There are many parallels but pantheism hasn't made any clear distinctions about spirituality and it's relationship to it. They recognize it's there but they have yet to frame it language.

I am also not surprised by your inablity to answer my last question, so I'll pose it again:

How would you attempt to minimize political manipulations in your idealized religion or alternately, how would you develop a community based on a loose assemblage of overgeneralized, rose-tinted viewpoints?

The guidelines for governance are inherent in the teachings of atheist spirituality. No way of being can remove inclinations to abuse systems for individual gains but teaching universal equality will take us away from power belonging to the very few. That alone will minimize manipulations.

Your definition of spirituality did not include sapience which is a major factor in human spirituality.

My explanation of spirituality does. If you think you have a better definition, I'd love to hear it.

You are a fool and a liar.

I've got a pretty good chance of attaining Nobel Laureate status. That would make you one of the most profound fools in existence. You can bite me!

 

[Cornerstone]

I don't know dude...you say all the right rhetoric but your actual manner speaks volumes about the gap between your talk and your walk.

It's not a bad thing, there is plenty of time to bridge that gap. A whole lifetime.

You come across as much more tense for having this revelation and it doesn't make it very appealing. It's cool to believe that you're onto something but, if this is the game-changer you seem to believe it is, why have you not relaxed? I don't get a sense of inner peace from you at all. I think it is more likely that you have found your own personal mission in life, and that is a good thing, but it is a mistake to assume it is for everybody. It may only be for a limited audience because only a small proportion can make sense of it. Nothing good comes from pushing ideology, even one based on wonder and beauty, onto people who aren't in a place personally to appreciate it. It won't be what you want it to be by pushing too hard.

I mean, who is to say that there isn't as much value in being wrong as right? It depends if you believe everything is all right.

I don't see a world that needs saving. I see a lot of people on the verge of saving themselves who might need some support and a lot who are just not even close to the precipice. Nonetheless, the same rudimentary support can be offered to them so long as they don't seek to destroy what we hold dear whilst we in turn constantly re-evaluate what it is that we do hold dear...and why.

 

[Rift Zone]

Well quite frankly I am stuck in a never ending depression. One that I cannot escape from. It's been harder than I thought to get over my own losses. Being homeless and my family being homeless has been a death blow. Having supposed Christian's judging me has put me down this hole. Most of my life actually. So keeping the energy level up to combat these things has eventually worn me down. I understand the fuck it who cares attitude. Problem is no one cares either. My problems are my own to make and to solve. Unfortunately to solve my problems I need people. There was a time when I felt a great connection and that I was moving forward. All that seems to have been lost. And when I look at history and humanity I can see that the same things just keep happening over and over. People cause all of mans problems. If only they could solve them. But I do not think that we really can. The diversity of peoples thinking is a block to progress. And a persons beliefs lead to judgement shame and prejudice. When I am out in the world and talking with others I listen to them and try to help with my words if I can. That is about all I can do. I cannot ask for help myself because those that I see are way worse off than I am. I can always seem to find another who needs more than I do. And when I do help well I do the work and get no money cause they need it more. When you are a failure in your own life it makes it very hard to dig yourself out of any hole that your in. At least that is true for me. I cannot speak for anyone else....

I feel your pain, man. I really do. I know that whole scenario really well. It's times like these when I'm grateful I'm INTJ. You are a beautiful person. I'm grateful I'm not so pretty in that regard. I can tell the world to fuck off with authority while I save it on everyone's behalf. Like I explained to you above, that's just the way the world will look at us. Dissenters know not what they do. They will not understand until it's all laid out in front of them. So I work for the future of all our progeny in spite of the hate I receive. The work will pay off. Not for me, I'm fucked. lol But I'll complete my goals in life none the less.

 

[Lark]

I think I will. Religion is subjugation. Everything about the religious world view turns believers into sheeple.

You flatter yourself too much with your posting, its sort of tells on what you're struggling with. Especially in a topical discussion.

 

[Lark]

Here, you know what this thread has been interesting for? Illustrating just how totalitarian the left-liberal-athiest-progressive mindset can be, as much as its supposed "opposite".

I dont think they're opposites at all, they have different window dressing but they are the EXACT SAME.

 

[Matt3737]

I have over three decades worth of intense study in all areas of existence. You may humble yourself now or I will do it for you. No published works, as of yet. You may question me if you like.

How old are you exactly? Your emotional maturity gives me the impression that you are an angst ridden teenager in desperate need to impress others and validate themselves. You puff out your chest and make the most ludicrous, grandiose megalomaniacal claims I've ever witness anyone try to lay claim to. You speak of humility and equality and then turn around and make the suggestion that you, of all people in all of history, are the be-all-end-all of human existence.

I am more inclined to believe one of three options: (1) you are a persistent and involved troll that strings people along into circular arguments; (2) you are emotionally handicapped in some manner; or (3) both (1) and (2).

There are many parallels but pantheism hasn't made any clear distinctions about spirituality and it's relationship to it. They recognize it's there but they have yet to frame it language.

The guidelines for governance are inherent in the teachings of atheist spirituality. No way of being can remove inclinations to abuse systems for individual gains but teaching universal equality will take us away from power belonging to the very few. That alone will minimize manipulations.

You claim pantheism has not make explicit its relationship with spirituality and then follow that up with how your brand of spirituality is implicit (inherent; not explicitly stated) and apparently works miracles for your special brand of discussion.

Good luck to you on achieving your Nobel Peace Prize. You of all people really need it.

 

[Rift Zone]

I don't know dude...you say all the right rhetoric but your actual manner speaks volumes about the gap between your talk and your walk.

It's not a bad thing, there is plenty of time to bridge that gap. A whole lifetime.

You come across as much more tense for having this revelation and it doesn't make it very appealing. It's cool to believe that you're onto something but, if this is the game-changer you seem to believe it is, why have you not relaxed? I don't get a sense of inner peace from you at all. I think it is more likely that you have found your own personal mission in life, and that is a good thing, but it is a mistake to assume it is for everybody. It may only be for a limited audience because only a small proportion can make sense of it. Nothing good comes from pushing ideology, even one based on wonder and beauty, onto people who aren't in a place personally to appreciate it. It won't be what you want it to be by pushing too hard.

I mean, who is to say that there isn't as much value in being wrong as right? It depends if you believe everything is all right.

I don't see a world that needs saving. I see a lot of people on the verge of saving themselves who might need some support and a lot who are just not even close to the precipice. Nonetheless, the same rudimentary support can be offered to them so long as they don't seek to destroy what we hold dear whilst we in turn constantly re-evaluate what it is that we do hold dear...and why.

I'm actually having this same conversation on the other site I hang out at... It's going much the same way. No surprise there. Anyway, I was prompted to write this out on that site and I think it's pertinent here.

That's an interesting observation... Let me tell you what it feels like from here! Atheist spirituality is the key to saving the world. Abrahamic religion is the worst thing that has ever happened to humanity. If there is disagreement about that, voice that disagreement! Tell me "i dont' think you have that right and this is why: bla, bla" Something like: "religion is not the foremost authority on teaching hate and racism and this is why: ..." Would also amount to welcomed discussion. An inquiry would be cool! I draw parallels, direct causality between world view and the state of the world. Perhaps not all feel that relationship! Some may disagree. That's cool. We can talk about it. Make me explain my shit if you don't feel it.

Alas, none of that happens. I get a bunch of people who are far more interested in fucking with me. They apparently have no interest in the content... Or maybe the content pisses them off but they can't touch it... I'm not sure how that plays out. What I am sure of is I get a lot of little bitches trying to get a piece of me when they should be focusing on the content. Well, you may have noticed I'm not to be trifled with. So let's make something clear here, we don't have to step out back. If you're trying to get a piece of me I will smack you around right here and now. We can chill over a beer and talk about these things and never once agree... I'd be okay with that. But if you want to fuck with me you will soon learn of your error. If you don't like the message, that really is your own fucking problem because taking your frustration out on the messenger isn't an option this time. Feel me?

INTJ are a liitle more in your face about things so please forgive the tone... I mean nothing by it here... Believe it or not, that's an effective means of communication for us.

Anyway... I'm not the Dali Llama. I'm a spiritual activist. The powers that be are not gonna give the world back because we asked nicely. We will have to fight for it. I am all about peace and love and Zen but I don't have that luxury here. Saving the world is not a negotiation. If you met me in person and could actually see my body language, you have a much better understanding of who I am. I suspect you would find ample amounts of inner peace. But unlike you, I see a world that needs saving. I have a message. The usual course of action is to discredit the messenger. That way, they don't have to pay attention to the message. Well, homie don't play that. I'm a fighter. I will fight for what I believe in. If getting the message across means asserting who I am then I will do just that. I hear ya man. I probably am doing this all wrong. I'm trying to grow. Do the meek really inherit the earth? The only thing I ever learned about bullies is they come back stronger next time, now that they know they have game. The "system" is victimizing our entire planet. The system is a bully who takes exactly what it wants when it wants it. I love this planet. It's too bad religion has made it out to be so much less than it really is. Most may not know how precious this world is, we are. And when a bully comes up, I'm not gonna sit there and say "that's not cool man". That mofo will have to come through me. Every one of them. I took responsibility. I made the problems of the world my own. I'm here to tell you this is my problem. All of it. Everything wrong with the world is on me. I'm an activist for only one reason. Not because I really want to reformat society into a worthy expression of humanity... -I do want to! Very much so. But that's not why I work on it. I work on because I know I can succeed. Spirituality is the key to saving the world. But it is only a start. More needs to be done after that picks up pace. All things considered. Behaving like a spiritual leader may only get this planet so far. Being a fighter may have it's merits.

 

[Matt3737]

The system is a bully who takes exactly what it wants when it wants it.

We will have to fight for it.

Saving the world is not a negotiation.

That mofo will have to come through me. Every one of them.

Being a fighter may have it's merits.

Hypocrisy at its very core.

 

[Rift Zone]

How old are you exactly? Your emotional maturity gives me the impression that you are an angst ridden teenager in desperate need to impress others and validate themselves. You puff out your chest and make the most ludicrous, grandiose megalomaniacal claims I've ever witness anyone try to lay claim to. You speak of humility and equality and then turn around and make the suggestion that you, of all people in all of history, are the be-all-end-all of human existence.

I am more inclined to believe one of three options: (1) you are a persistent and involved troll that strings people along into circular arguments; (2) you are emotionally handicapped in some manner; or (3) both (1) and (2).



You claim pantheism has not make explicit its relationship with spirituality and then follow that up with how your brand of spirituality is implicit (inherent; not explicitly stated) and apparently works miracles for your special brand of discussion.

Good luck to you on achieving your Nobel Peace Prize. You of all people really need it.

And you can continue to bite me. Do you think your pathetic attempt to get under my skin is gonna affect me? You got another thing coming! I'm INTJ = immune to your bullshit emotional ploys. My strongest preference in sloan/Global5 is emotional stability. -over 90%... Further immune. I could drop 70+ iq points and still be average. I dont have a degree of any sort. I'm a few classes away from an associates degree in Science, Engineering and Math. I don't lose arguments to Ph.Ds -Any of them! I corrected Steven Hawking about Black Holes 15 years ago when I met him. Too bad he didn't take a hint. Now I'm gonna go on recored for taking down Big Bang Theory. I've been given private tours of NASA's Moffet Field facility many times. I've also been given a private tour of Stanford's Linear Accelerator becasue geeks know brillance when they see it. I'm the most blasphemous person on the planet! I'm the greatest threat religion has ever known. I also openly defy Big Bang Theory, Quantum Mechanics and Relativity. I can explain things modern science cannot even speculate on. I'm gonna take that Laureate status and use it to destroy everything wrong in the world. Don't fuck with me! You will not like how this plays out. Fuck'n try me!

 

[Matt3737]

And you can continue to bite me. Do you think your pathetic attempt to get under my skin is gonna affect me? You got another thing coming! I'm INTJ = immune to your bullshit emotional ploys. My strongest preference in sloan/Global5 is emotional stability. -over 90%... Further immune. I could drop 70+ iq points and still be average. I dont have a degree of any sort. I'm a few classes away from an associates degree in Science, Engineering and Math. I don't lose arguments to Ph.Ds -Any of them! I corrected Steven Hawking about Black Holes 15 years ago when I met him. Too bad he didn't take a hint. Now I'm gonna go on recored for taking down Big Bang Theory. I've been given private tours of NASA's Moffet Field facility many times. I've also been given a private tour of Stanford's Linear Accelerator becasue geeks know brillance when they see it. I'm the most blasphemous person on the planet! I'm the greatest threat religion has ever known. I also openly defy Big Bang Theory, Quantum Mechanics and Relativity. I can explain things modern science cannot even speculate on. I'm gonna take that Laureate status and use it to destroy everything wrong in the world. Don't fuck with me! You will not like how this plays out. Fuck'n try me!

How are you going to win the Nobel Prize when it is awarded by people who, since they cannot comprehend your intelligence, brush you off as another deluded fool, pray tell?

 

[Rift Zone]

How are you going to win the Nobel Prize when it is awarded by people who, since they cannot comprehend your intelligence, brush you off as another deluded fool, pray tell?

geeks know brillance when they see it.

=)

 

[Matt3737]

=)

I'm a freak of society, everything about me points to I'm going to wind up staying alone. Then again, what makes me different also empowers me in many ways. Fulfilling my goals in life will make the isolation worth it. I'm going to pour my love into this planet one way or another.

Do you have many friends, [MENTION=10289]Rift Zone[/MENTION] ? How well do you get along with your 'geek' friends? Do they argue with you or support your endeavors?

 

[Cornerstone]

Do you have many friends, @Rift Zone ? How well do you get along with your 'geek' friends? Do they argue with you or support your endeavors?

See, this is getting personal. He has a point.
Whether you mean this in a passive-aggressive way or not, it is easily interpreted that way.

 

[Radiantshadow]

The tone and content of this thread has become ridiculous and is veering into emotional combat. Refocus or leave the arena, folks.

 

[Matt3737]

See, this is getting personal. He has a point.
Whether you mean this in a passive-aggressive way or not, it is easily interpreted that way.

True, I thought as much as I wrote it. I am honestly curious as to what sort of person he is though, so I can alter my attitude towards him. The amount of friends one has (if one were even able to clearly define such a relationship) is not a indication of value or worth. I am curious as to how he relates to people in a face to face environment. Does he share his worldview with people on a daily basis?

I will not press the issue any further though.

 

[Rift Zone]

Do you have many friends, @Rift Zone ? How well do you get along with your 'geek' friends? Do they argue with you or support your endeavors?

You are so sweet. Thank you for caring about my being! I was wrong about you. Should I send you a friend request now or where you planning to send one? Since you care so much I'll tell ya a little about me.

My social life is iffy. I have friends but none are really close to me. Even the ones I consider family, I can't really relate to well. No one gives a fuck about the things I'm preoccupied with. Pressing the properties and intricacies of time, QM, relativity, Plasma, spirituality, governance, agriculture, transportation, natural resources, medicine, infrastructure... You know that constant chatter we INTJs have? That's all I have going on up there. No, I didn't see the show, game, movie... I don't deeply relate to anyone.

Wanna know what it's like? it's a steep price to pay. The isolation almost isn't worth it. Always wanted a Nobel Prize. Not the prize itself, contributing something worthy of it. My childhood dream was to take the torch in the age old quest for knowledge and move us ahead a step or two. If I ever get such a thing it would amount to a hollow concession for a life empty of much of the intimacy and joy many take for granted. I rather be a little closer to this world than have history give a damn about me. Whatever. I'm a romantic. I'm made of passion and love. I'll get to pour my love into this world one way or another. Save the world... I may live without love but my heart sings through the joy of our progeny. Thanks for asking! Fuck you very much... lol

 

[Rift Zone]

emotional combat

I will defend myself. Don't make me do it. =( Please. I straight told people at the other site:

"Don't mistake kindness for weakness. I'm inherently a savage and I'm just as good at psychological warfare as I am science. Friendly word of advice: Don't fuck with me. I will drag your self worth all up and down this forum if you dont humble yourself in a bit way. You've been trying to get a piece of me. You're about to get one. Peace bro, hug a tree or something."

For those keeping score. I have a gentle disposition unless you attack my character. @say what, I'm sorry for getting snippety with you. Claiming I need to learn something is fine if you can back that up. Leaving that as a given is intolerable. Attack my ideas! INTJs love that. -shows you care! Not kidding about that. But don't attack me. It never goes well for anyone.

 

[Radiantshadow]

I will defend myself. Don't make me do it. =( Please. I straight told people at the other site:

"Don't mistake kindness for weakness. I'm inherently a savage and I'm just as good at psychological warfare as I am science. Friendly word of advice: Don't fuck with me. I will drag your self worth all up and down this forum if you dont humble yourself in a bit way. You've been trying to get a piece of me. You're about to get one. Peace bro, hug a tree or something."

For those keeping score. I have a gentle disposition unless you attack my character. @say what, I'm sorry for getting snippety with you. Claiming I need to learn something is fine if you can back that up. Leaving that as a given is intolerable. Attack my ideas! INTJs love that. -shows you care! Not kidding about that. But don't attack me. It never goes well for anyone.

I was not referring only to you.

 

[Rift Zone]

I was not referring only to you.

I saw exactly what you did. I thank you. You are a kind spirit. I wasn't referring to you at all. I was talking to any potential hecklers. I'm not trying to be a bad ass but I take shit from no one. I would like to defend myself by mentioning again that I have a gentle disposition until I'm fucked with. It's all true, my record will say so every time. I'm hardwired that way... I'm doing all this for you... My kind forumite. The good people of the world never have anything to fear from me. Anything that stands to gain through the destruction of the natural world or subjugation of any life had better watch the fuck out.

My avatar is tattooed across my chest. Let me tell you how this is gonna happen. In about decade some geek with a tat just like mine is gonna come out of nowhere and attain academic fame. Then he's gonna change the world. Understanding the fundamental nature of complex systems that interact nonlinearly is what I do... It is literally what I am. It's what makes me good at science. It's why I'm uniquely suited to know what's wrong with this world and how to fix it. I know what I'm talking about! All this isn't a dream, it's a promise. A better day is coming. The sky is blue, water is wet and atheist spirituality will save the world in this century. -I know those with equal conviction. You will know I speak truth in about a decade.