Suppose there is a hell...

I don't believe in an afterlife, so that solves that problem....

Clearly God doesn't care about us, assuming there is a transcendent God that exists.
 
Talking about this topic across every religion or philosophy is very wide and there will of course be many very different views. Its interesting.

I do not believe in hell. The question would depend on ones definition of given hell i guess, But for the traditional hell that some christians talk about, that I dont believe in. Simply becuase I dont find anything about it in the bible. I dont see the purpose of hell. If god is a loving god, then there cant be hell. He would rather destroy evil for eternity than torture it. Tortur would be an evil act.
My concept of heaven would probably also be different from a traditional christian one.
 
Last edited:
I think perhaps hell is something of our own making and choosing. It is a form of cosmic disconnect that we clearly are not supposed to experience.
 
kyo said:
Talking about this topic across every religion or philosophy is very wide and there will of course be many very different views. Its interesting.

I do not believe in hell. The question would depend on ones definition of given hell i guess, But for the traditional hell that some christians talk about, that I dont believe in. Simply becuase I dont find anything about it in the bible. I dont see the purpose of hell. If god is a loving god, then there cant be hell. He would rather destroy evil for eternity than torture it. Tortur would be an evil act.
My concept of heaven would probably also be different from a traditional christian one.
Click to expand...

I only have this to say, Hell is often reffered to in the NT by none other then Jesus. But were never given a definition other then it sucks.

It's been named Gehenna which is a trash heap. It's been mentioned as being outside a cities walls with no entrance. and as a chasm which just seem entirely unpleasent

randomsomeone said:
I think perhaps hell is something of our own making and choosing. It is a form of cosmic disconnect that we clearly are not supposed to experience.
Click to expand...

I agreee with this alot, while maby not our own creating but definitley our own choosing and more so as a disconect as opposed to a place of torture.
 
In the Catholic Tradition Hell is understood as everlasting existence, without seeing God (the beatific vision).

Fires, punishments, torments, etc. are accidental, that is, not essential to the concept of hell. (In fact, hell, without punishment is called Limbo - that is eternal existence without the vision of God, without torments).

Who ends up in hell? Because the beatific vision is not natural to humans, but is above our nature (super-natural), supernatural grace is necessary to attain Heaven. So, only those who have died in a state of supernatural grace get to heaven. The first, necessary means to obtain grace is the Sacrament of Baptism. (Catholic Faith).

The innocent who die without grace go to Limbo, the sinful go to hell.

As for the original question: it is legitimate for soldiers to defend their country against aggressors; so they can shoot enemy legitimately, however, the murder of non-agressors (civilians) is always wrong.


(I answer in terms of the Catholic Faith, because that is the one I best know; and hold).
 
Last edited:
Altruistic Muse said:
I like thinking of hell as in C.S. Lewis' book " The Great Divorce". Here, it is merely the absence of heaven. If you hold onto your self, your sense of mortality, and are unable to relinquish greed, vanity, overbearing love and jealousy, and even (to my surprise) your need for mental stimulation, it is suggested that you cannot enter into heaven. When you are happy that you have experienced all that can be felt or thought, you can move onto the next level. In this sense, Lewis doesn't so much differentiate between good and evil, he more talks about giving up your life to live eternally, because God can forgive all as long as you are willing to give yourself to him completely.
Click to expand...

That is probably the closest explanation I can imagine. However, I like to imagine Heaven with a big fat cherry on top. I don't really believe in an actual hell except what we have already created for ourselves.
 
May said:
do you think the people who perform lawful executions while alive, end up in hell when they die?

what about the nazi soldiers who claimed they were only following orders? does god really not take intent into account? even other people have sympathy for those in difficult situations, who are perhaps pressured to make what would otherwise be considered undeniably immoral decisions, so why wouldn't an all loving, all knowing god?
Click to expand...

I think God's capacity to forgive is unlimited but you have to ask for it. By asking forgiveness you acknowledge what you did was wrong.

If the sins are too numerous or too great, without that recognition and asking of forgiveness, I'm not certain a person will make it to heaven because they haven't come to terms with their mistakes in God's eye.

It's a case-by-case basis though, where absolutes do not necessarily apply. Killing is bad, but there's all sorts of killing. No two lives are the same, so in my opinion only two people are really qualified to judge your life. You and God. God is included because he was there every step of the way and walked in your shoes.

Also know this, God's judgment is not usually forced on individuals when they die. You *choose* to enter the white light, no one forces you through. By entering, you choose to be judged under God's scrutiny.
 
uberrogo said:
I think there is not a physical hell but it is more of a mental thing. Being with the person you hate most is what hell ends up being.
Click to expand...
Kind of like Sartre's version eh?
 
And suppose there isn't?

Which is more disturbing: the absence of judgment or the abundance of it?
 
The abundance of judgement is more disturbing.. Especially when that judgement is entirely subjective, one person's truth and righteousness is not another's.
 
At least when I go to hell, I'll have some awesome stories to tell.

(sorry, it fit perfectly with this thread)
 
May said:
do you think the people who perform lawful executions while alive, end up in hell when they die?

what about the nazi soldiers who claimed they were only following orders? does god really not take intent into account? even other people have sympathy for those in difficult situations, who are perhaps pressured to make what would otherwise be considered undeniably immoral decisions, so why wouldn't an all loving, all knowing god?

i think, if there is a god, there can't be a hell, because god would already know the reasons for why wrong acts are committed, and from that all encompassing understanding, would come an unlimited capacity to forgive.
Click to expand...

I think that is far too complicated for god, he seems to like things in black in white.
 
I believe there is a hell. I don't believe in the fire and brimstone hell, as much as separation from God, and thusly from love. It would be the type of experience, in my opinion, where one cannot live, but also one cannot die.

And I also believe in heaven, again, as being in the presence of a loving God, whom I do believe exists.

Unlike NeverAmI, I do not believe these concepts are bribes or ultimatums, because I do not believe that being with or or being separated from God has any basis in morality. That seems to be a common misconception about Christianity. Most (though, not all) denominations do not believe that a person's soul goes anywhere based on what they DO or do NOT do, as the case may be. If that were so, everyone would go to hell, as all sins, biblically speaking, are equal. Some people struggle with the idea that a person who murders another person could still "go to heaven" if they say a prayer and accept salvation. According to this belief, sin is sin, no matter how big or small, and separates the sinner from his/her Creator. So from that belief, there really isn't anything too big small to keep a person from heaven, except unwillingness to accept forgiveness. I somewhat believe in this, though I struggle with a few questions of my own.

I don't understand why people say that if there is a God, there can't be a hell. I find that confusing. If hell is separation from God, and a person chooses to be separated from God (through sin, unbelief, etc.) and does not accept the unconditional love and forgiveness of God, why would God force the person to be in His presence? He wouldn't. And He won't. Because love is a choice, and that is why we were created with free will, so we could choose to love and glorify our Creator BY loving Him, and loving others.

It's like if I offered to buy you lunch, and you said you didn't want it, because you didn't want to eat lunch with me, and then turned around and accused me of depriving you of lunch. It just wouldn't make any sense.

I'll get off my spiritual soapbox now.
 
May said:
i think, if there is a god, there can't be a hell, because god would already know the reasons for why wrong acts are committed, and from that all encompassing understanding, would come an unlimited capacity to forgive.
Click to expand...

I used to feel that way, but the older I get the more I buy the line of 'we were given free will and in its elegance we are granted the ability to make ourselves suffer to any depth.'
 
To be completely honest, I don't think I can have a truly open discussion about this topic without offending people. I think I would have to get you all drunk first before I would try to really get in depth on this topic. I wasn't raised as a Christian, Jew, or Muslim, and the older I get the further my personal religious beliefs have gotten from the accepted path.
 
Last edited:
Rakawi said:
And suppose there isn't?

Which is more disturbing: the absence of judgment or the abundance of it?
Click to expand...

absense, anarchy is no way to live
 
May said:
do you think the people who perform lawful executions while alive, end up in hell when they die?

what about the nazi soldiers who claimed they were only following orders? does god really not take intent into account? even other people have sympathy for those in difficult situations, who are perhaps pressured to make what would otherwise be considered undeniably immoral decisions, so why wouldn't an all loving, all knowing god?

i think, if there is a god, there can't be a hell, because god would already know the reasons for why wrong acts are committed, and from that all encompassing understanding, would come an unlimited capacity to forgive.
Click to expand...
I know what you mean.

Either way, whoever made that rule up will go to hell, or the hell of hell; superhell!
 
Barnabas said:
absense, anarchy is no way to live
Click to expand...

But, do we know for sure that if people did not believe in and fear hell, they would live in anarchy?

I'm just saying this because personally, I don't believe people need god to be moral and live together peaceably.
 
There is only one kind of hell, and that is a personal hell...so if you participated in attempted genocide then may your hell be filled with a million painful deaths...

if you raped, may your hell consist of eternal forced sexual acts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top