Suppose there is a hell...

[the]

absense, anarchy is no way to live

Have you ever tried it?

 

[TinyBubbles]

Clearly God doesn't care about us, assuming there is a transcendent God that exists.

that isn't clear though, maybe the way god cares just isn't apparent to us mere mortals, maybe by giving birth to the universe he showed us all the caring we deserve...

 

[Barnabas]

Have you ever tried it?

come spend a week with my family, you'll understand

But, do we know for sure that if people did not believe in and fear hell, they would live in anarchy?

I'm just saying this because personally, I don't believe people need god to be moral and live together peaceably.

I was speeking in a a more literal sense, not theologicaly. But I get where your coming from, take Ghandi he seemed to be a pretty decent guy. But if I say the people need God to be moral I wouldn't meen that they need to be Christians thats all together different.

 

[Jack]

Maybe the only logically possible way for God to bring about the world he desires that would be the greatest good requires him to keep his hands off as much as it might be painful.

For example, volition isn't like chance, God could make free-willed beings that would always choose to do good, but only by causing them to have experienced evil and know its consequences. In the same way, children might disobey and touch a hot stove despite your telling them not to. They will never intentionally touch the stove again when it is hot, even though they could choose to do so.

But of course that's only hypothetical.

 

[TinyBubbles]

Maybe the only logically possible way for God to bring about the world he desires that would be the greatest good requires him to keep his hands off as much as it might be painful.

For example, volition isn't like chance, God could make free-willed beings that would always choose to do good, but only by causing them to have experienced evil and know its consequences. In the same way, children might disobey and touch a hot stove despite your telling them not to. They will never intentionally touch the stove again when it is hot, even though they could choose to do so.

But of course that's only hypothetical.

i could see that happening, it's similar to what my bf believes, that god basically lets the circus run as it will, knowing the consequences of doing evil would act as a natural deterrent
and if people are 'burned' by doing wrong acts on earth, maybe that's enough of a punishment that they wouldn't have to go to hell --that there wouldn't have to be a hell?

 

[Barnabas]

The problem is what about the wrong things people do yet don't get burnt? should a theif it who never get caught be treated the same as the man whom worked hard all his life.

 

[Jack]

@ May, The analogy wasn't meant to be all-encompassing, it was merely an example of where one could go with the idea that allowing suffering and evil may be the only logically possible way to generate a greater good that a God might intend. It could be paired with a number of different perspectives of hell, if one maintains that people still choose evil be it literal hellfire, or even just annihilation.

@ Barnabas, I wouldn't think it necessarily would have to be about getting caught but even experiencing the pain of being wronged oneself.

 

[Razare]

I don't believe in an afterlife, so that solves that problem....

Clearly God doesn't care about us, assuming there is a transcendent God that exists.

If there is a God, then he's likely all-powerful. He made the universe, the dimensions, heaven, and all of us, along with our souls. With a flick of his hand he could very likely take away all the world's suffering. And you believe that if he cared for us, he would do so?

Does a good parent tell their child they shouldn't ride a bike because they might get hurt?

Does a good parent not let their children have teenage relationships because they know their heart will be broken?

Being a good parent means letting your children do what they will and supporting them along the way, guiding when necessary. It does not entail protecting them from all pain.

Also, if there is a God, and souls, and all that, then what physically happens on this globe is of little significance. What then matters is who you are and what kind of person you become. I think God cares for the later because he knows that's what matters. Those poor children all starving in Africa, they suffer tremendously, but God sees to it their souls arrive in heaven. It's an ethereal sort of caring about your emotional well-being, not a material one.