T and F in ‘child’ positions

[David Nelson]

Had this thought that it seems to be that Ti in child position in INFJ doesn’t stop them being highly logical, while Fi in same position in ISTJ and INTJ can make them pretty detached emotionally.

Do people think it could be possible that F functions in general have more relative weight when higher in function stacks than T functions, such that when lower they have a correspondingly lower effect (more so that T)? Does that even make sense lol? Maybe this could be true because feelings are more primal than logic? Animals possess way more F than T.

 

[Asa]

I think this depends on personal development. I also wouldn't call IXTJs "emotionally detached". T doms are less emotionally animated and may have under-developed Feeling, but they still feel. Society, family, peers, and gender norms can also help with development. For example, gender norms push females to engage emotionally and males to engage with logic, so those functions will develop even if they are inferior. We all use all the functions.

Also, people cannot necessarily tell whether a trait is strong or weak without unbiased outside input. For example, a large percentage of people who label themselves as "empaths" have tested lower in empathy than others. The same may be true for other traits.

There is also the factor that people are typically knowledgable or emotional in specific areas and deficient in other areas. T doms may feel deeply for a small circle of people, but lack emotional interest in the general public. A person may have extensive knowledge in their area of expertise while being incompetent at other topics. Maybe someone knows everything about cooking, but not calculus, or they know all about calculus but fail at creative writing.

We cannot prove animals process more F than T. Strategy is part of survival.

 

[John K]

Had this thought that it seems to be that Ti in child position in INFJ doesn’t stop them being highly logical, while Fi in same position in ISTJ and INTJ can make them pretty detached emotionally.

Do people think it could be possible that F functions in general have more relative weight when higher in function stacks than T functions, such that when lower they have a correspondingly lower effect (more so that T)? Does that even make sense lol? Maybe this could be true because feelings are more primal than logic? Animals possess way more F than T.

It seems to me that it's important to differentiate between the choices we make that are driven by emotion and those that we take by freely and consciously directing our emotion. This is the difference between those who's F function is inferior or shadow, and those who have at least some conscious control of it.

My experience of IxTJs is that their judgment is coloured very strongly indeed by their Ni/Fi ruminations. Of course, like us IxFJs, they can have problems with Fi taking on a life of its own, just as we have that problem with Ti, but mature IxTJs are really very good at it. It comes across in the most obvious way in Enneagram Type 1 IxTJs who must be amongst the most moral and loyal folks on earth. You can see it expressed very obviously as well in the less mature ones because their logic is full of 'oughts' .

I think this is quite symmetrical with an IxFJ type. Speaking for myself, I can be pretty good with Ti and can partner it very well with my intuition, but just as with an INTJs Fi, I can lose control of it. When I do that, I can come out with long, convoluted and utterly unconvincing logic that dislocates my Fe quite badly, and I mess up my impact on others. I can have Ti storms too, particularly in the small hours when all the world seems to be going wrong, and I think this is matched by the Fi storms that IxTJs experience which are irrational guilt trips.

 

[David Nelson]

It could be that F deficiencies/challenges are just more apparent to others than T ones are due to social interactions demanding more of F than T. But if that’s true, then it could be argued that higher F than T is more useful for individuals in their interactions with others, even if this presents challenges of being very sensitive like INFPs and ESFJs are for eg. Because of this, maybe auxiliary F is preferable, since it is neither too fragile nor weak? Of course every type has advantages.

I can certainly at times recognise weakness in Ti, although in child position it does confer unique benefits of simplicity, clarity and innocence. As INFJs we definitely have to check our own Ti slowly for robustness, and exercise it slowly.

 

[aeon]

It could be that F deficiencies/challenges are just more apparent to others than T ones are due to social interactions demanding more of F than T. But if that’s true, then it could be argued that higher F than T is more useful for individuals in their interactions with others, even if this presents challenges of being very sensitive like INFPs and ESFJs are for eg.

Perhaps, but this will certainly vary per environment and situation. If you are working in a competitive scientific environment with people of high intellectual caliber (because the situation requires it), F remains important, but one’s T had better be on-point.

Of course every type has advantages.

I’m glad to hear this.

Cheers,
Ian