terrorist action of israel vs apathy

[cvp12gh5]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

"There are plenty of jews opposed to the violence in gaza"

Of course there are. But we are talking about this particular petition. And in this petition, you were specifically referencing holocaust survivors. 40 of them to be exact. Your point was that they are against Israel because they think that Israel is trying to do to the Palestinians what Hitler tried to do to them (which is false.) So your point is invalid when you are talking about 40 out of 500000.

"Correcting me over what? I didn't say anything about non jewish victims of the nazi's concentration camps

I just said that some survivors of the camps have written a letter condemning the violence in Gaza"

You specifically responded to me with:

“The point i want to make is that there are plenty of jews against the violence in gaza”

Therefore, I am correcting you. In that sentence, you are speaking only of Jews. This is an assumption on your part (that all 40 are Jewish). Point not made.

"I'm not sure that's a good stance to take to be honest"

It would be just as reasonable some of the ones you take.

You must realise that the rest of the world is growing resentful of the zionists

Just because you and some other misinformed people feel this way, does not mean the rest of the world does. You should avoid presenting these type of statements as if they were fact when they are not. You discredit yourself.

"Now is the time for people to distance themselves from zionist jewish supremicism not embrace it"

Zionist Jewish supremacy? Uh huh.

"The CIA has published a report that Israel will cease to exist in 20 years and even kissinger has said so."

Well if Kissinger says so...

And of course it won't. Israel will have taken over the world by then. Why stick with the old name?

 

[cvp12gh5]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

On a side note, I am beginning to see that arguing with you is one of my guilty pleasures. Teehee

 

[muir]

@muir

"There are plenty of jews opposed to the violence in gaza"

Of course there are. But we are talking about this particular petition. And in this petition, you were specifically referencing holocaust survivors. 40 of them to be exact. Your point was that they are against Israel because they think that Israel is doing what Hitler tried to do to them (which is false.) So your point is invalid when you are talking about 40 out of 500000.

I didn't say they are against israel

I said they are against the violence in gaza

"Correcting me over what? I didn't say anything about non jewish victims of the nazi's concentration camps

I just said that some survivors of the camps have written a letter condemning the violence in Gaza"

You specifically responded to me with:

“The point i want to make is that there are plenty of jews against the violence in gaza”

Therefore, I am correcting you. In that sentence, you are speaking only of Jews. This is an assumption on your part (that all 40 are Jewish).

The article says: ''326 Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of the Nazi genocide''

"I'm not sure that's a good stance to take to be honest"

It would be just as reasonable some of the ones you take.

You must realise that the rest of the world is growing resentful of the zionists

Just because you and some other misinformed people feel this way, does not mean the rest of the world does. You should avoid presenting these type of statements as if they were fact when they are not. You discredit yourself.

You are clearly out of touch with the rest of the world if you are not aware of the general mood out there towards US imperialism and israeli expansion

"Now is the time for people to distance themselves from zionist jewish supremicism not embrace it"

Zionist Jewish supremacy? Uh huh.

Yes they are jewish supremicists

"The CIA has published a report that Israel will cease to exist in 20 years and even kissinger has said so."

Well if Kissinger says so...

Kissinger is privy to a lot of information that you and i are not

And of course it won't. Israel will have taken over the world by then. Why stick with the old name?

Not sure if you are joking there or not

 

[muir]

@muir

On a side note, I am beginning to see that arguing with you is one of my guilty pleasures. Teehee

Crack on i don't mind a bit of verbal sparring

 

[cvp12gh5]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

“I said they are against the violence in gaza”

Which you feel is being created by Israel. Am I correct? So they are against Israel’s actions (of defending themselves). Right?

“The article says: ''326 Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of the Nazi genocide''

So the assumption was made by you and IJAN. Got it.

“You are clearly out of touch with the rest of the world if you are not aware of the general mood out there towards US imperialism and israeli expansion”

No, I don't live in a bubble that exists of only my own opinions and people that agree with them. <--I'm sure you can sense where I’m going with that.

"Yes they are jewish supremicists"

Okay.

"Kissinger is privy to a lot of information that you and i are not"

How do you know?

"Not sure if you are joking there or not"

Lol

 

[muir]

Sorry CB but i've gotta ask...is there some reason why you're not using your quote button?

@muir

“I said they are against the violence in gaza”

Which you feel is being created by Israel. Am I correct? So they are against Israel’s actions (of defending themselves). Right?

They are against Israels OFFENSIVE attack on gaza

“The article says: ''326 Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of the Nazi genocide''

So the assumption was made by you and IJAN. Got it.

No assumption made...have you looked at the article?

It is a jewish petition created by a jewish network for jewish people in which the jewish signatories names are all shown

“You are clearly out of touch with the rest of the world if you are not aware of the general mood out there towards US imperialism and israeli expansion”

No, I don't live in a bubble that exists of only my own opinions and people that agree with them. <--I'm sure you can sense where I’m going with that.

Below is a graph made by the BBC (which is pro-zionist) of opinion towards israeli influence around the world...its overwhelmingly negative except in the US where the zionist press is strongest

"Yes they are jewish supremicists"

Okay.

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379, adopted on November 10, 1975 by a vote of 72 to 35 (with 32 abstentions), "determine[d] that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379

"Kissinger is privy to a lot of information that you and i are not"

How do you know?

Because he is a government insider and a member of the CFR

"Not sure if you are joking there or not"

Lol

There is a plan to build a 'greater israel' but ultimately i think this will fail with terrible consequences for all involved

I think the effort should be directed instead towards creating a peaceful compromise with the palestineans

 

[just me]

I think the sooner Hamas is gone, the sooner there will be peace.

 

[muir]

I think the sooner Hamas is gone, the sooner there will be peace.

Nonsense

There was violence before Hamas and there will be violence after Hamas because hamas do not control the military industrial complex, the ZIONISTS do

When the zionsist are gone, then there will be a chance for peace

 

[cvp12gh5]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

Of course I read the article. And assumptions were definitely made. Let me explain how.

1. You wrote in your original post:

"300 survivors of the Nazis condemn Israels actions in gaza http://ijsn.net/gaza/survivors-and-descendants-letter/"

It was not 300 survivors, it was 40. You were misleading people to believe that 300 survivors condemned Israel's actions in Gaza. A lot of people do not have time to click on all of the links you post. So I corrected you. And you are assuming that all 40 of them are Jewish. Why do I say this? Because...

2. It may be a Jewish petition created by a Jewish network but it is not just for Jewish people.

Here is IJAN's mission statement:

"IJAN is an international network of Jews who are uncompromisingly committed to struggles for human emancipation, of which the liberation of the Palestinian people and land is an indispensable part. Our commitment is to the right of return for Palestinian refugees, the ending of the Israeli colonization of historic Palestine and an end to US economic and military dominance in the region, in which Israel plays a crucial part.

The State of Israel’s historic and ongoing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people from their land contradicts and betrays the long histories of Jewish participation in our own and collective struggles for liberation. We object to Zionism’s exploitation of histories of Jewish persecution and genocide to justify the colonization of Palestine and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and its debasement of these histories."

So let's say that you are a non-Jewish holocaust survivor that is passionate about this cause. You come to this site and agree with the statements being made. You put in your name and email address to become a member (it's that easy. I did just to confirm). There are no questions. I didn't have to prove I was Jewish to be a member.

I have a Jewish Community Center near where I live. Many non-Jewish people go there because Jewish people accept everyone, no matter what race or religion you are. I have a Chabad on my corner. They have non-Jewish families that bring their children there for activities because they are so welcoming.

No matter what kind of club we have, you can be a part of it as long as you come in peace; which means you can't have a bomb strapped to your back. Easy enough for most but not for all.

Which brings me to my point; if IJAN was really that passionate about this petition, they would have reached out to ALL 500000 survivors, since that is what the petition is about, right? Holocaust survivors that are against Israel's actions? It's the whole point of the petition, am I correct?

Maybe they did reach out and only got 40 out of 500000 signatures (if this happened then we can't assume that all 40 are Jewish.) Or maybe they didn't care enough about their cause to put any real effort into it.

Food for thought.

 

[muir]

@muir

Of course I read the article. And assumptions were definitely made. Let me explain how.

1. You wrote in your original post:

"300 survivors of the Nazis condemn Israels actions in gaza http://ijsn.net/gaza/survivors-and-descendants-letter/"

It was not 300 survivors, it was 40.

I posted the article for people to read

Those 300 are survivors as if their ancestors had not survived then they would not have survived

You were misleading people to believe that 300 survivors condemned Israel's actions in Gaza. A lot of people do not have time to click on all of the links you post. So I corrected you. And you are assuming that all 40 of them are Jewish. Why do I say this? Because...

2. It may be a Jewish petition created by a Jewish network but it is not just for Jewish people.

No because as i have said already the article said they were jewish

Here is IJAN's mission statement:

"IJAN is an international network of Jews who are uncompromisingly committed to struggles for human emancipation, of which the liberation of the Palestinian people and land is an indispensable part. Our commitment is to the right of return for Palestinian refugees, the ending of the Israeli colonization of historic Palestine and an end to US economic and military dominance in the region, in which Israel plays a crucial part.

The State of Israel’s historic and ongoing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people from their land contradicts and betrays the long histories of Jewish participation in our own and collective struggles for liberation. We object to Zionism’s exploitation of histories of Jewish persecution and genocide to justify the colonization of Palestine and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and its debasement of these histories."

So let's say that you are a non-Jewish holocaust survivor that is passionate about this cause. You come to this site and agree with the statements being made. You put in your name and email address to become a member (it's that easy. I did just to confirm). There are no questions. I didn't have to prove I was Jewish to be a member.

I have a Jewish Community Center near where I live. Many non-Jewish people go there because Jewish people accept everyone, no matter what race or religion you are. I have a Chabad on my corner. They have non-Jewish families that bring their children there for activities because they are so welcoming.

No matter what kind of club we have, you can be a part of it as long as you come in peace; which means you can't have a bomb strapped to your back. Easy enough for most but not for all.

Which brings me to my point; if IJAN was really that passionate about this petition, they would have reached out to ALL 500000 survivors, since that is what the petition is about, right? Holocaust survivors that are against Israel's actions? It's the whole point of the petition, am I correct?

Maybe they did reach out and only got 40 out of 500000 signatures (if this happened then we can't assume that all 40 are Jewish.) Or maybe they didn't care enough about their cause to put any real effort into it.

Food for thought.

I would doubt that they 'reached out' to holocaust survivors

I would imagine that some survivors reached out to them

I'm not sure about that but it might be thought a tad insensitive to contact those people and to bring up such traumatic memories so i doubt they 'reached out' (you'd need to check it)

The purpose of my post was to show that the jewish community is divided over the killing of defenceless children

Not all jews would behave the way this group of settlers did in unleashing a pack of dogs on some palestinean children that were playing in the street:http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/20/376034/settler-dogs-savage-palestinian-kids/

Many jews are protesting against the violence: http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/16/375566/10000-out-in-tel-aviv-against-gaza-war/

 

[Stu]

Those 300 are survivors as if their ancestors had not survived then they would not have survived

sorry to intrude, but are you saying that the 300 are born after the Nazi violence?

 

[muir]

sorry to intrude, but are you saying that the 300 are born after the Nazi violence?

No

Why not read the article?

 

[Stu]

I just did my nails

 

[cvp12gh5]

sorry to intrude, but are you saying that the 300 are born after the Nazi violence?

No, he definitely didn't say that. That's what he should have said. And if he read the petition then he would have said that 327 survivors signed the petition.

Out of those 327, only 40 were actual survivors, and 287 of them were born after the Nazi violence. I think that's an important fact. <-- that word right there makes all the difference.

 

[muir]

No, he definitely didn't say that. That's what he should have said. And if he read the petition then he would have said that 327 survivors signed the petition.

Out of those 327, only 40 were actual survivors, and 287 of them were born after the Nazi violence. I think that's an important fact. <-- that word right there makes all the difference.

Look heres the situation

There's a bunch of jews who are really scared living next to a bunch of muslims who are also really scared

What the two groups need to do is to reach out peacefully to each other and recognise their shared humanity

But for this to happen they must first realsie that they are being manipulated by people who do not have their best interests at heart and who are using both groups in their global power games

Regular jews and regular muslims are just pawns in the games of powerful men

But the israelis have the superior firepower. Peace cannot come form the palestineans....it has to come from the more powerful force

But the israelis have been programmed with a bio-computer virus called 'zionism' that is scrambling their ability to feel from their heart and see their palestinean neighbours as people like them with families and fears and worries and loves and hates and all the rest

Zionism is a sickness that tells jews that they are different and better than other peoples and that they have a right to persecute other peoples

Zionism is the worst thing to happen to jews since nazism

Honestly....its time to cleanse that virus and make peace with the palestineans

As the following clip shows the Israelis do not accept peace terms from the palestineans even when the palestineans make concessions. This is because the vision of the powerful men at the core of zionism is to create a greater state of israel which means the violent purging of palestineans

But what way is that to make a home...built on the blood and bones of others? Whats worth that?

And if you say a 'homeland' is worth that then think about it this way....

What security can your homeland ever have if you are always at war with your neighbours?

This behaviour is not sustainable and it cannot end well for the israelis or their neighbours

[video=youtube;3_tObJRdBGo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_tObJRdBGo#t=22[/video]

 

[just me]

Wrong. Almost color blind.

 

[just me]

 

[just me]

 

[just me]

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/iran-we-will-rearm-the-west-bank/2014/08/27/0/?print

 

[muir]

Israel is grabbing 400 hectares of west bank showing their actions for what they really are: THEFT OF LAND BY FORCE

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-plans-expropriate-400-hectares-west-bank-army-092041942.html