The Buddhism thread

It's implying that Zen applies to everything you do, peeling potatos is just an example, it relates to what I posted earlier "on a path to enlightenment, eat when you're hungry, sleep when you're tired, after obtaining enlightenment, eat when you're hungry, sleep when you're tired".

The mere fact that life is happening, regardless of what you're doing.
 
uberrogo said:
Isnt it true that to practice Zen Buddhism one must not practice Zen Buddhism?
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Okay, so let me see if I get this. The reason I'm so good at Zen is because I practice Judaism???????

My tongue is gonna get stuck in my cheek.
 
To even try to understand Zen, you need to forget about religion, Judaism, Christianity, Hindu, whatever... and just be.

One can not be good or bad at Zen, good and bad came in to existence after humans did, Go for a walk, and sit under the sun, listento the sound the trees make, birds chirping, focus on your own breath, eventually, you'll realise you didn't need to ask any questions about it in the first place.

Since you are Jewish, your mind is already made up, empty your teacup, so that you may fill it again... or just sit tight with your warm cup of tea and enjoy as is =] (I'm not saying ditch your religion or anything, but to understand Zen is to understand religion is not needed)
 
"what is 'pealing the potatoes"

A happening.

There are no doers nor is there any observers. There is only happenings in the eternal 'now'

You are both the doer and the observer of this happening.

This is Zen.
 
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uberrogo said:
How do you know this? Do you understand Zen?
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I understand a lot of things, but perhaps finding the words to explain them is another issue.

But to answer your question, yes.


A university student while visiting Gasan asked him: "Have you ever read the Christian Bible?"

"No, read it to me," said Gasan.

The student opened the Bible and read from St. Matthew: "And why take ye thought for rainment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow. They toil not, neither do they spin, and yet I say unto you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these... Take therefore no thought for the morrow, for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself."

Gasan said: "Whoever uttered those words I consider an enlightened man."

The student continued reading: "Ask and it shall be given you, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you. For everyone that asketh receiveth, and he that seeketh findeth, and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened."

Gasan remarked: "That is excellent. Whoever said that is not far from Buddhahood."



So I'm not saying that you can't study Zen while being religious, but to understand it, you must be free of all thought, including all types of thought associated with the religion you hold your faith in.
 
What is the sound of two dozen religions echoing inside a brain? For the western mind, it is often the case that the study of many different religions functions as a koan. If you think because I'm a Jew that by definition I can't get it, I'll sick my Buddhist friends on ya! Seriously though. Consider Thomas Aquinas, the religious brain of all religious brains, who finally at the end of his life said that all he had written was nothing.

I think it is very sad that you think there is only one road to enlightenment (to get rid of religion = emptying your box). Religion is form. Form is lovely because it enables us to share experience, to be spiritual together as a community. If one understands that form is not essense, then religion does not have to be a block to enlightenment.
 
o_q said:
Buddhists are gonna burn in HELL!
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Not to worry. We Jews have already raised funds for air conditioning, and we've planned some hot entertainment.
 
Justbeing said:
So I'm not saying that you can't study Zen while being religious, but to understand it, you must be free of all thought, including all types of thought associated with the religion you hold your faith in.
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It's not that you stop thinking. It's that you realize how limited thoughts are, how words cannot encompass essence, how the Tao which can be expressed is not the eternal Tao. Words are practical because they let us SHARE with others. But we realize how pathetically limited they are.

BTW, I do love that particular quote from the gospel. John Michael Talbot set it to music which I especially love becuase the flutes remind me of a bird taking to flight.

[video=youtube;-dGcZ1R7FBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dGcZ1R7FBE[/video]
 
What is the sound of two dozen religions echoing inside a brain? For the western mind, it is often the case that the study of many different religions functions as a koan. If you think because I'm a Jew that by definition I can't get it, I'll sick my Buddhist friends on ya! Seriously though. Consider Thomas Aquinas, the religious brain of all religious brains, who finally at the end of his life said that all he had written was nothing.

I think it is very sad that you think there is only one road to enlightenment (to get rid of religion = emptying your box). Religion is form. Form is lovely because it enables us to share experience, to be spiritual together as a community. If one understands that form is not essense, then religion does not have to be a block to enlightenment.

The Buddha preached for fourty years. Knowing he never needed to speak a word.

Religion or anything for that matter will never hinder the path of enlightenment, Attachement to them will only hinder your path.

There is no 'one' way to enlighenment, everybody wakes up on there own time.

Peace
 
uberrogo said:
How do you know this? Do you understand Zen?
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There was once two monks, one Taoist and one Confusionist, pausing as they crossed a bridge over a pond. As they gazed down, the Taoist monk exclaimed, "Look at those fishes, swimming here and there, how happy they are!" The Confusionist monk said, "How do you know if they are happy? Have you ever been a fish?" To which the Taoist replied, "How do you know that I don't know? Have you ever been me?"
 
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I think it is very sad that you think there is only one road to enlightenment (to get rid of religion = emptying your box). Religion is form. Form is lovely because it enables us to share experience, to be spiritual together as a community. If one understands that form is not essense, then religion does not have to be a block to enlightenment.
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I never said you have to get rid of religion, in fact I stated that you didn't have to.

And I didn't say that it was the only way to enlightenment, at all, anywhere in my posts, Zen is just another way to achieve such a thing, and being the topic of the moment, I felt it was the obvious topic to speak about.

A person can be enlightened regardless of anything but him/herself.

Just because I'm talking about Zen, doesn't mean it's the only path, if I so happened to be Jewish, then such a path I would travel to enlightenment.

Also, by "Understanding Zen" I do refer to enlightenment obtained by practice of Zen, sure you can understand it's principals/mind set, anyone can.

I sincerely mean no offence by my posts, they just seem to have been taken in a different light.
 
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Justbeing said:
To even try to understand Zen, you need to forget about religion, Judaism, Christianity, Hindu, whatever... and just be.

One can not be good or bad at Zen, good and bad came in to existence after humans did, Go for a walk, and sit under the sun, listento the sound the trees make, birds chirping, focus on your own breath, eventually, you'll realise you didn't need to ask any questions about it in the first place.

Since you are Jewish, your mind is already made up, empty your teacup, so that you may fill it again... or just sit tight with your warm cup of tea and enjoy as is =] (I'm not saying ditch your religion or anything, but to understand Zen is to understand religion is not needed)
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I understand what you're trying to say but it's not that ZEN is this or that, ZEN is what people call something, not the actual thing. (I'm aware of the irony of calling it "something..." ;D) Zen is the name of a method. Teachings of Jesus are a method. ...I'm heretical here in suggesting the method is a method. You'll get fit in many ways... by weightlifting or running.... What's your preference? :)

GracieRuth said:
What is the sound of two dozen religions echoing inside a brain? For the western mind, it is often the case that the study of many different religions functions as a koan. If you think because I'm a Jew that by definition I can't get it, I'll sick my Buddhist friends on ya! Seriously though. Consider Thomas Aquinas, the religious brain of all religious brains, who finally at the end of his life said that all he had written was nothing.

I think it is very sad that you think there is only one road to enlightenment (to get rid of religion = emptying your box). Religion is form. Form is lovely because it enables us to share experience, to be spiritual together as a community. If one understands that form is not essense, then religion does not have to be a block to enlightenment.
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this. :)

Buddhism was the first religious discipline to appeal to me (my background is secular atheist). I had problems with Christianity because of the crusades, witch trials, fundamentalists etc...but am now happily reading Meister Eckhart. To me he speaks the same language as the Buddha.
My step mom who lived in Nepal for a few decades pointed out to me in my teens that she found the buddhist practices there very corrupt and devoid of original meaning...I have no personal experience but would just by general observation of humanity think that not everyone is quite a buddha in practice. Much of it just has to be custom. I think in the west we sometimes gloss over how buddhism manifests in real life. i'm not saying there are historical atrocities like the crusades to think about, but i'm sure the real thing isn't quite as ideal as some here in the west think. we're all just human. All institutionalized religions include human foibles in their structure because it's inescapable, I think.
I love the method though... the method I think is elegant.
 
Reverie said:
My step mom who lived in Nepal for a few decades pointed out to me in my teens that she found the buddhist practices there very corrupt and devoid of original meaning.... I think in the west we sometimes gloss over how buddhism manifests in real life..............I love the method though... the method I think is elegant.
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Zen literally means meditation. The thrust of Zen in the west has been its un-theistic approach to numinous experience. It is a practice. But for most of its history in Asia it has been in the "religion business" which inevitably fosters corruption of all kinds.

For those of us who recognize the problems with any religion with stated polemics the Zen ideal of abandonment of rational thought as a mode of perceiving reality is awfully appealing.
edit: I have been reading both Studies in the Lankavatara Sutra by DT Suzuki and his translation of it. I posted this on my apostelytizer blog and my meditation page on FBLanka 142_LXI.webp
[Studies in the Lankavatar Sutru p 213 DT Suzuki]
This reality exists in the world as gold exists concealed in the ore, for it is this that makes things abide, makes them arrange themselves in order and establish a realm among themselves, and constitutes their essence. It is eternally there. It is the suchness of things.
[Lankavatar Sutra Translated by DT Suzuki (143) p 123-125]
Again Mahamati said: It is said by the Blessed One that from the night of the Enlightenment till the night of the Parinivana, the Tathagata (143) in the meantime has not uttered even a word, nor will he ever utter: for not speaking is the Buddha's speaking. According to what deeper sense is it that not-speaking is the Buddha speaking?
The Blessed One replied: by reason of two things the deeper sense...this statement is made. What are the two things? They are truth of self-realisation and the eternally-abiding reality....Of what deeper sense is the truth of self realisation? What has been realised by the Tathagatas, is that my own realisation, in which there is neither decreasing nor increasing; for the realm of self-realisation is free from words and discriminatons, having nothing to do with dualistic terminology.
What is meant by an eternally-abiding reality? The ancient road of reality... has been here all the time, like gold [or]...silver...preserved in the mine...the Darmadhatu abides forever whether the Tathagata appears in the world or not: as the Tathagata eternally abides so does the reason (dharmata) of all things; reality forever abides, reality keeps its order, like the roads in an ancient city.
For instance..., a man who is walking in a forest and discovering an ancient city with its orderly streets may enter into the city, and having entered into it, he may have a rest, conduct himself like a citizen and enjoy all the pleasures acuring therefrom ...(143) Did this man make the road along which he enters into the city? and also the various things in the city?
...what has been realised by myself and the other Tathagatas is this reality, the eternally-abiding realty (sthitita), the self-regulating reality (niyamata), the suchness of things (tathata) the realness of things (bhutata), the truth itself (satyata).
For this reason, Mahamati, it is stated by me that from the night of the Tathagata's Enlightenment till the night of his entrance into Nirvana, he has not in the meantime uttered,nor ever will utter one word. So it is said:
7. From the night of Enlightenment till that of Nirvana, I have not in the meantime made any proclamation whatever.
[ Studies in the Lanka. by DT Suzuki p 213]
Therefore, when the Bodhisattvas or Buddhas attain to realisation, the experience is not something altogether new to them...like walking into an old city...one happens [upon]..and quietly enjoys...the Buddha did not create these things, they have been here from the beginning.
The dharma he has an insight into is something enduring, a regulative principle, and suchness of things it is reality, truth...for this reason the Buddha declared that since his enlightenment ....
 
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What form of zen do you practice? I'm a member of a Soto-zen sangha. Just curious.
 
Bhodi said:
What form of zen do you practice? I'm a member of a Soto-zen sangha. Just curious.
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I am not a member of a sangha but have sat in one that counts Philip Kapleau as a progentor.
 
Reverie said:
My step mom who lived in Nepal for a few decades pointed out to me in my teens that she found the buddhist practices there very corrupt and devoid of original meaning...I have no personal experience but would just by general observation of humanity think that not everyone is quite a buddha in practice. Much of it just has to be custom. I think in the west we sometimes gloss over how buddhism manifests in real life. i'm not saying there are historical atrocities like the crusades to think about, but i'm sure the real thing isn't quite as ideal as some here in the west think. we're all just human. All institutionalized religions include human foibles in their structure because it's inescapable, I think.
I love the method though... the method I think is elegant.
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Nepal practices, most likely, Tibetan Buddhism. It's full of colorful images, characters, spirits, ghosts and multiple forms of "priests". The problem it faces though, is that Tibetan culture had most of those things before Buddhism arrived. As I mentioned in the very first post on this thread (I think?), Buddhism filtered into the Tibetan culture and kind of blended with it. It's the "Catholic" form of Buddhism in its rigid structure, practices and dogmatic approach to things (due to the cultural influence that was there before the religion). The images of the monks' life and the Dalai Lama appeal to many people, but the actual day-to-day religious practices are a different story.
 
wake up, organized religions are prone to corruption to begin with, Nepal is an incredibly poor country where corruption is rampant.
 
Lerxst said:
Nepal practices, most likely, Tibetan Buddhism. It's full of colorful images, characters, spirits, ghosts and multiple forms of "priests". The problem it faces though, is that Tibetan culture had most of those things before Buddhism arrived. As I mentioned in the very first post on this thread (I think?), Buddhism filtered into the Tibetan culture and kind of blended with it. It's the "Catholic" form of Buddhism in its rigid structure, practices and dogmatic approach to things (due to the cultural influence that was there before the religion). The images of the monks' life and the Dalai Lama appeal to many people, but the actual day-to-day religious practices are a different story.
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I know tibetan Buddhism's influenced by the shamanistic indigenous beliefs native to the area and that it is very different from Zen buddhism. I'd suspect though that some "human contamination" has occurred none the less, like in Thailand where the nuns are subservient to monks because of women not treated as equals in society in general. I like Zen buddhism. It appeals to me and I did seriously consider going to a Zen monastery to become a nun in my late teens. I'm just saying that usually an unfamiliar religion is like a man one falls in love with. It seems perfect at first sight but after a while you start noticing it leaves dirty socks on the floor and has odd opinions about diet, morality or hygiene. If you stick by it nonetheless it's true love for life, enriching and makes life more meaningful. It's still got foibles though. :)
 
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