the climate change scam

bb attribution theory can not do that by itself - not when it comes to racism. But good link though! :)
It could be a combination of e.g. identity theory, favouritism, in-group favouritism and out-group derogation

Nevertheless, There are different types of racism: aversive racism, unintentional racism, blatant racism. (might be more-dont remember)
What people say belongs to either one of those and that is the subtle key to how someone can interpret it.. mixed with mentioned above.
<3
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
I just came across this in my reading and thought it was pertinent to what we're discussing. Nntr.



Heider is a rather seminal 'psychologist-philosopher' and the originator of 'attribution theory' (of which the above quote is an example), as well as 'balance theory' and perhaps 'consistency theory' more generally.

I quoted this as I reflected on the power of reputation to influence the way in which one's ideas can be received, and therefore if being branded a racist means that all of your ideas will necessarily be received as racist ones (or at least suspected of racism).

*Fritz Heider, 'Social Perception and Phenomenal Causality', Psychological Review 51.6 (1944), p. 364.
Click to expand...

Puzzlenuzzle said:
bb attribution theory can not do that by itself - not when it comes to racism. But good link though! :)
It could be a combination of e.g. identity theory, favouritism, in-group favouritism and out-group derogation

Nevertheless, There are different types of racism: aversive racism, unintentional racism, blatant racism. (might be more-dont remember)
What people say belongs to either one of those and that is the subtle key to how someone can interpret it.. mixed with mentioned above.
<3
Click to expand...

Both smart perspectives.
Thanks!

Perhaps HE as a person doesn’t treat people any differently...idk those parts of who he is as a person and what makes him tick...and I don’t assume that I do...people have every right to believe whatever it is that they believe...when it starts to negatively impact others in my own community and country then I will always be an opposing voice to someone speaking for those of us in the US while not even living here and not really having a true grasp of societal group-think subtle or not.
I don’t assume to know how people in the UK feel about Brexit...I have NO idea and wouldn’t offer my opinions on how the people should act or think in response to it...I have a pretty good understanding of what is taking place, but that is still leaving out huge chunks of information relevant to being a native.
Not saying I’m a super patriotic person though myself...so I was born here....big deal...luckier than some, worse than others.
*shrug*
It’s a false sense of pride imho and another thing to separate people.
I still think that what he was saying was/is racist in nature.
That is my opinion...anyone is free to disagree.
And like I said, that is not a reflection on him as a person outside of this forum and his posts (because his posts are solely on this stuff).
Maybe he’s a swell guy to have a beer with...but yeah...
No thanks.
All his posts aim to separate people into this or that group, which is very black and white, right and wrong, with zero room for an opposing view.
All his posts are the very same posts that are being shared by the groups here in the US that are politically racist actors.
Just saying.
 
Last edited:
Puzzlenuzzle said:
bb attribution theory can not do that by itself - not when it comes to racism. But good link though! :)
It could be a combination of e.g. identity theory, favouritism, in-group favouritism and out-group derogation

Nevertheless, There are different types of racism: aversive racism, unintentional racism, blatant racism. (might be more-dont remember)
What people say belongs to either one of those and that is the subtle key to how someone can interpret it.. mixed with mentioned above.
<3
Click to expand...

Hmm, I think it's relevant.

Attribution theory can account by itself for why a person with a reputation as a racist seems to have an undercurrent of 'racism' to everything they say.

When human beings impute causes of phenomena to other individuals, we perceive an 'animus' of intent proceeding from the origin/cause (the person) to the act (this is the terminology of MacIver btw).

So a bad act receives it's 'badness' from a bad person; a racist act receives its racism from a racist person - this is the 'animus' MacIver talks about.

Hence, according to attribution theory, we have a hard time believing that a good person could commit a bad act, or that a racist act could be committed by a non-racist.

So I think attribution theory has something useful to say here with regard to this discussion.

On the other hand, if you're saying that there are other processes going on simultaneously - specifically to do with the creation and maintenance of ingroups/out groups - then of course I agree. This is why Heider went on to develop attribution theory into consistency theory, and then why these ideas were taken and used in social network analysis by Harary and Cartwright to show how individuals maintain social networks based upon the beliefs and opinions of their peers.

At bottom, it's all the same field studying the same processss, but I see no issue with going back to Heider as the originator.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Hmm, I think it's relevant.

Attribution theory can account by itself for why a person with a reputation as a racist seems to have an undercurrent of 'racism' to everything they say.

When human beings impute causes of phenomena to other individuals, we perceive an 'animus' of intent proceeding from the origin/cause (the person) to the act (this is the terminology of MacIver btw).

So a bad act receives it's 'badness' from a bad person; a racist act receives its racism from a racist person - this is the 'animus' MacIver talks about.

Hence, according to attribution theory, we have a hard time believing that a good person could commit a bad act, or that a racist act could be committed by a non-racist.

So I think attribution theory has something useful to say here with regard to this discussion.

On the other hand, if you're saying that there are other processes going on simultaneously - specifically to do with the creation and maintenance of ingroups/out groups - then of course I agree. This is why Heider went on to develop attribution theory into consistency theory, and then why these ideas were taken and used in social network analysis by Harary and Cartwright to show how individuals maintain social networks based upon the beliefs and opinions of their peers.

At bottom, it's all the same field studying the same processss, but I see no issue with going back to Heider as the originator.
Click to expand...
attribution theory cannot singularly explain why someone deems someone racist or if that person has made a racist comment unless! it is between groups e.g. politically speaking: between left or right wing. If someone is right wing and a right wing politician makes a racial comment then yes, attribution theory would play a role. Attribution theory isn't sufficient to explain what you're trying to say as it has a lot to do with explaining intentions, desires, etc.
 
Last edited:
Deleted member 16771 said:
The ironic thing about this post is that your historical narrative here is a Marxian one.

I think you ought to seriously consider why 'Marxist' is a pejorative term to you, because as lot of the things you say are explicitly Marxist. This focus on a sinister elite for example.
Click to expand...

marx wasn't one of the people; he was a close blood relative of the rothschilds who ran the bank of england and set the price of gold everyday

you have to consider who ultimately benefitted from marxism for example in russia where the bolsheviks took over and you said they were led by......fill in the gap

iur
 
Puzzlenuzzle said:
bb attribution theory can not do that by itself - not when it comes to racism. But good link though! :)
It could be a combination of e.g. identity theory, favouritism, in-group favouritism and out-group derogation

Nevertheless, There are different types of racism: aversive racism, unintentional racism, blatant racism. (might be more-dont remember)
What people say belongs to either one of those and that is the subtle key to how someone can interpret it.. mixed with mentioned above.
<3
Click to expand...

how about the racism where people believe they have a unique destiny to rule over all other peoples

is that racism?
 
Skarekrow said:
And in case you hadn’t noticed but this whole nonsense of Trump sending troops to the border is a giant political show.
The “caravan” won’t even get here until January....but OMG, hurry and send 15,000 troops to the border to stop the women with their strollers.
lol
Click to expand...

they are being provided with coaches so they will move faster than you think
 
Skarekrow said:
Thanks for the further elaboration my friend.
Perhaps he is not a racist...but the political leanings of those who are racist - promote messages that are similar to those posted, if not the same.
The anti-Zionist posts.
The anti-rich-Jew posts.
The posts about Hitler trying to HELP the Jews.
The any and all left or liberal leaning people are communists...and the left only wants the illegal immigrants so they can use them to vote against the right.!
Click to expand...

hold on a minute!

what about what is true?

are you saying that truth doesn't matter and that all that matters is what skarekrow likes the sound of?

look into the haavara agreement. Hitler was facilitating the movement of jews out of germany and to israel before the outbreak of hostilities ceased the agreement. Its historical fact (see excerpt from wikipedia in my next post below)

why is it important? a british politician who used to be the mayor of london has been driven out of politics in disgrace for merely mentoning the existence of the havaara agreement so what is happening is that people like skarekrow are creating a climate of fear in which it is becoming impossible to discuss history to determine what is true and what isn't

it doesn't matter if you like the sound of it or not it happened and what matters is: WHAT IS TRUE AND WHAT ISN'T not your feelings. Your feelings should not get to shape history, the facts should

what you are trying to do is control the parameters within which people can discuss and thereby you are trying to conceal information from people. Information which i believe is in the public interest to know because it affects them directly in many ways

and as for false flags people will for ideological reasons carry out false flags to demonise enemies as the CCTV footage of the recent graffiti of a jewish synagogue shows:

Was Anti-Semitic New York Graffiti Attacker A Liberal-Media-Darling Obama Volunteer?
by Tyler Durden
Sat, 11/03/2018 - 18:36


Just days after the awful events of Pittsburgh, disgusting neo-Nazi graffiti was found Thursday inside a Brooklyn synagogue.

NYPD officials told Breaking911 that the suspect entered Brooklyn’s Union Temple around 8:30 p.m. Thursday night and used a black marker to deface three different locations with the messages, “die Jew rats we are here,” “Jews better be ready,” and “Hitler.”

As one would expect, New York's officials were extremely quick to decry the disgusting actions, with NY Governor Cuomo releasing the following statement - with a clear intent to pin the blame on one side:

“I am disgusted by the discovery of anti-Semitic graffiti at a house of worship in Brooklyn. At a time when the nation is still reeling from the attack at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, New Yorkers stand united with the Jewish community and against hate in all its forms.

“In New York, we have zero tolerance for discrimination in our laws or in our spirit. I have directed the State’s Hate Crimes Task Force to investigate this hideous act and hold those responsible accountable to the full extent of the law.

“As Governor, I am also doing everything in my power to ensure our religious institutions are free from violence and intolerance. This week, we announced the launch of an additional $10 million grant program to help protect New York’s non-public schools and cultural centers, including religious-based institutions.

“The disgusting rhetoric and heinous violence in this nation has reached a fever pitch and is ripping at the fabric of America, and it must stop. In New York, we have forged community through chords of commonality and we will always stand together against hate and discrimination.”

Mayor Bill de Blasio called the hateful messages “tremendously upsetting.”

“Coming at a time when Jewish New Yorkers are feeling a profound sense of loss and sadness because of what happened at the Pittsburgh Tree of Life synagogue and all those who were killed there because of their faith.”

But, in an interesting twist, according to Breaking911, surveillance footage released by authorities captured a photo of the suspect, "described as a male Black, approximately 20-years-old, 5’8?, 140 lbs, with black hair and last seen wearing a red suit jacket."

ss-696x490.jpg

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...ttacker-liberal-media-darling-obama-volunteer
 
Last edited:
from wikipedia:

Haavara Agreement
The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew: הסכם העברה Translit.: heskem haavara Translated: "transfer agreement") was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. It was a major factor in making possible the migration of approximately 60,000 German Jews to Palestine in 1933–1939.[1]

The agreement enabled Jews fleeing persecution under the new Nazi regime to transfer some portion of their assets to British Mandatory Palestine.[2] Emigrants sold their assets in Germany to pay for essential goods (manufactured in Germany) to be shipped to Mandatory Palestine.[3][4] The agreement was controversial at the time, and was criticised by many Jewish leaders both within the Zionist movement (such as the Revisionist Zionist leader Ze'ev Jabotinsky) and outside it, as well as by members of the NSDAP and members of the German public.[4] For German Jews, the agreement offered a way to leave an increasingly hostile environment in Germany; for the Yishuv, the new Jewish community in Palestine, it offered access to both immigrant labor and economic support; for the Germans it facilitated the emigration of German Jews while breaking the anti-Nazi boycott of 1933, which had mass support among European Jews and was thought by the German state to be a potential threat to the German economy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
 
Skarekrow said:
To me it is important to remember the three recent racially or politically motivated attacks (which of course are all false flags ;) ), !
Click to expand...

false flags happen so people need to be shrewd and not naive:

Jewish student caught painting Swastikas on her own door then claiming Anti-Semitic Attack

 
Skarekrow said:
To me it is important to remember the three recent racially or politically motivated attacks (which of course are all false flags ;) ), !
Click to expand...

false flags do happen:

Was Anti-Semitic New York Graffiti Attacker A Liberal-Media-Darling Obama Volunteer?
by Tyler Durden
Sat, 11/03/2018 - 18:36

Just days after the awful events of Pittsburgh, disgusting neo-Nazi graffiti was found Thursday inside a Brooklyn synagogue.

NYPD officials told Breaking911 that the suspect entered Brooklyn’s Union Temple around 8:30 p.m. Thursday night and used a black marker to deface three different locations with the messages, “die Jew rats we are here,” “Jews better be ready,” and “Hitler.”

As one would expect, New York's officials were extremely quick to decry the disgusting actions, with NY Governor Cuomo releasing the following statement - with a clear intent to pin the blame on one side:

“I am disgusted by the discovery of anti-Semitic graffiti at a house of worship in Brooklyn. At a time when the nation is still reeling from the attack at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, New Yorkers stand united with the Jewish community and against hate in all its forms.

“In New York, we have zero tolerance for discrimination in our laws or in our spirit. I have directed the State’s Hate Crimes Task Force to investigate this hideous act and hold those responsible accountable to the full extent of the law.

“As Governor, I am also doing everything in my power to ensure our religious institutions are free from violence and intolerance. This week, we announced the launch of an additional $10 million grant program to help protect New York’s non-public schools and cultural centers, including religious-based institutions.

“The disgusting rhetoric and heinous violence in this nation has reached a fever pitch and is ripping at the fabric of America, and it must stop. In New York, we have forged community through chords of commonality and we will always stand together against hate and discrimination.”

Mayor Bill de Blasio called the hateful messages “tremendously upsetting.”

“Coming at a time when Jewish New Yorkers are feeling a profound sense of loss and sadness because of what happened at the Pittsburgh Tree of Life synagogue and all those who were killed there because of their faith.”

But, in an interesting twist, according to Breaking911, surveillance footage released by authorities captured a photo of the suspect, "described as a male Black, approximately 20-years-old, 5’8?, 140 lbs, with black hair and last seen wearing a red suit jacket."

ss-696x490.jpg

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...ttacker-liberal-media-darling-obama-volunteer
 
@kinglear

You have proven every point I made, thanks.

(And again, I speak for myself, so quit assigning false titles and responsibilities to me...when have I ever said I speak for the forum? Not ever.)

((And the Jews were put into ghettos...their property and lives stolen...they were still forced from their homes by anti-jewish sentiment...Hitler did not do the Jews any favors...but nice try.))

(((Super great, you can find one or two random stories of people doing dumb shit that proves nothing)))

((((By asserting they are all false flags you show your own self to be stuck in single-minded conspiracy thought loops, unable to tell reality from fiction. (but I’m sure you would say the same of me ;) ))))

It hasn’t been fun.
Ciao.
 
Last edited:
kinglear said:
maybe they are not saying anything that challenges the others pre held beliefs?
Click to expand...

Nope...that’s not it.
Nice passive-aggressive assumption though.
 
@Skarekrow I've decided to abandon this thread, too, mate.

And @kinglear I think you ought to pay attention to my reasons.

Sometimes going back and forth with you was fun and interesting, but you have a bad habit of bombarding us with excessive information without giving us a chance to respond to singular points.

Many people have told you, including me and Skare, that your debating 'style' ought to evolve if you want to have any rhetorical success. You can't simply say 'but this us the truth!' and then continue to screech.

If you notice when other members debate, we tend to stick to one point and explore its aspects rationally and reasonably - giving each other time and space to respond. Your way is just plain antisocial compared to this, and it becomes exhausting, especially when you refute every one of our points with some variation of 'false flag'. @Puzzlenuzzle asked you to stick to the point on several occasions, for example.

You need to seriously consider your epistemology, because you have a tendency to believe that everything is a lie.

Someone makes a scientific point - you say the scientists are part of the conspiracy.

Someone makes a historical point - you say that historians are Marxists and biased.

Someone points to some current event - you say they are false flags (unless it agrees with you, then the event is miraculously real)

The problem here is not us, it's that you just ontologically do not belong long to the same reality.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
@Skarekrow I've decided to abandon this thread, too, mate.

And @kinglear I think you ought to pay attention to my reasons.

Sometimes going back and forth with you was fun and interesting, but you have a bad habit of bombarding us with excessive information without giving us a chance to respond to singular points..
Click to expand...

well bare in mind that skarekrow has been abusive and hostile to me since i came on the forum and seems to have an ideological agenda that underpins his views whereas i just follow the information to where it leads me

so i do think debating with skarekrow is a waste of time

But if you would like something to discuss then i offer this film. In it there are some great interviews with the scientist piers corbyn who is the brother of the labour party leader in the UK

In these clips piers lays out my own views on climate change as well as my views on what the corporate media present as 'the left' these days for example at 1:00:35

if you want to understand where i am coming from then this film is perfect and even if you couldn't give two hoots where i'm coming from this film is still worth watching!

The Uncertainty Has Settled (Full film)

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top