The coming American civil war.

You must believe round pegs are for square holes? Stop the gay crap long enough to see I was talking about the only thing in a statue that could offend me because of my beliefs. I might let people know how I felt then and try to have them removed.

Women lost husbands and sons that never owned a slave; they just landed near here and grew the f up best they could. They were chased down and killed by the North, who would kill anyone standing in their way to keep the Union intact. The south died and lost because of the Henry Repeating Rifle...game changer. Never saw Josey Wales with a slave. You killed us once, so go ahead and tear down the Monuments. Stand up and say how much better you are than southerners. I do not believe in slavery, but statues of dead men do not bother me. While you're growing up, remember children are our responsibility. Lead them down the wrong path and you will be held accountable. You will be reminded of it daily.

Watch all the idiots ranting in your streets.

Read my other post. There were more fighting for the right to live than the right to own slaves. The word bigot comes to mind. Do people really actually think everyone was fighting so they could own a slave? The word stupidity comes to mind.

I did. Yes of course not everyone in the south was fighting for the right to own slaves, and not everyone in the north was fighting to free them. Robert E. Lee may never have owned slaves, but he apparently left it up to God to decide when slavery ended, and he allowed his own men to capture slaves. The confederate constitution itself endorsed the preservation of a crime against humanity. That inevitably affects the legacy of any leader or hero associated with the confederacy, including their memorials. I'll make the cliched but appropriate point that there were good people in Nazi Germany too, but the state endorsement of a crime against humanity, and the complicity (willing or not) of the citizenry destroyed the reputation of the country and put a shroud over related monuments from that era.

Do claims of bigotry and stupidity also apply to assuming that all southerners endorse keeping the monuments, at least any more than all Confederates endorsed slavery or all Union soldiers wanted it gone? As was mentioned earlier, in Charlottesville the decision to take the statue down was made by the city council. Locals. What does that say?
 
just me said:
You must believe round pegs are for square holes? Stop the gay crap long enough to see I was talking about the only thing in a statue that could offend me because of my beliefs. I might let people know how I felt then and try to have them removed.

Women lost husbands and sons that never owned a slave; they just landed near here and grew the f up best they could. They were chased down and killed by the North, who would kill anyone standing in their way to keep the Union intact. The south died and lost because of the Henry Repeating Rifle...game changer. Never saw Josey Wales with a slave. You killed us once, so go ahead and tear down the Monuments. Stand up and say how much better you are than southerners. I do not believe in slavery, but statues of dead men do not bother me. While you're growing up, remember children are our responsibility. Lead them down the wrong path and you will be held accountable. You will be reminded of it daily.

Watch all the idiots ranting in your streets.

"Stand up and say how much better you are than southerners.”

No one is saying that.
I am not, nor has anyone else.
Of course there were good people on both sides and bad people on both sides.
But the main reason the states were fighting was over slavery...personal reasons of the soldiers aside, we do not need Statues of people who commanded those men into battle...they were fighting for the wrong reasons.
Stop trying to justify the civil war by saying slavery was not the main driver of it all.
It was.
That doesn’t make the winners any better people than the southerners somehow...and no one has said as much here.
Slavery needed to be abolished...the rich slave owners wanted compensation from the government for the slaves, the government said “No, go fuck yourself.”
And the war began.
If anyone should have gotten some form of reparations it was those slaves that were set free...and they were supposed to be given land and a goat...never happened...many in the south found new ways to “enslave” those who were now free men and women


And there is just no denying that our criminal justice system is biased toward those of color.
From contact with the LEO to sentencing before the judge...they are treated much more harshly and given longer sentences than their white counterparts for the exact same crimes.
That is hard factual data.
 
I want whatever Eventhorizon and just me are smoking.

Dats sum powerful shit.
I can't speak for @just me but in my case? Truth and reason. And you are right, it is some powerful s hit.
 
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I did. Yes of course not everyone in the south was fighting for the right to own slaves, and not everyone in the north was fighting to free them. Robert E. Lee may never have owned slaves, but he apparently left it up to God to decide when slavery ended, and he allowed his own men to capture slaves. The confederate constitution itself endorsed the preservation of a crime against humanity. That inevitably affects the legacy of any leader or hero associated with the confederacy, including their memorials. I'll make the cliched but appropriate point that there were good people in Nazi Germany too, but the state endorsement of a crime against humanity, and the complicity (willing or not) of the citizenry destroyed the reputation of the country and put a shroud over related monuments from that era.

Do claims of bigotry and stupidity also apply to assuming that all southerners endorse keeping the monuments, at least any more than all Confederates endorsed slavery or all Union soldiers wanted it gone? As was mentioned earlier, in Charlottesville the decision to take the statue down was made by the city council. Locals. What does that say?
Most of the time, they do not want violence in their streets.
 
@just me

I can't tell what "Most of the time" was in reference to.

Most of the time claims of bigotry and stupidity also apply?
Most of the time all southerners endorse keeping the monuments?
Most of the time all southerners didn't endorse keeping the monuments?
Most of the time they don't want violence?

Southerners don't want violence in the streets? Ok, maybe that's why the city council proceeded through a vote, and though the decision was mixed, it was all made by locals who are all southerners right?
 
Antifa really needs to be labeled what it is, a terrorist organization.
 
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Wanting peace is also about not inciting violence. Even though violence is wrong, one may have to change their narrative to avoid it. Look at the American Civil War itself to see that. A lot of people died just for the South to end up staying in the Union anyway - they didn't even win anything, the South was pretty much destroyed instead. That was a lot of killing for a complete reversal that could have been avoided.
 
Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
They are terrorists for attempting to prevent terrorists from having a public platform?

Don't waste your time responding... Now, where is that ignorant thread button?
Why didn't you use it to begin with?
 
Antifa really needs to be labeled what it is, a terrorist organisation.

I'll allow it if you let me punch some Nazis. Or maybe just one really bad Nazi. I need something out of this deal.
 
As was mentioned earlier, in Charlottesville the decision to take the statue down was made by the city council. Locals. What does that say?

It says most of the time people do things to avoid violence in their streets. Reminds me of the Arab Spring. I personally have no liking for those in the streets. They should be at work working. People are quite full of themselves lately, and I prefer to watch the seasons change. Of course, a person can get killed while working nowadays. Who is to say where it is more safe most of the time? Hard to get run over working instead of fussing in the streets. Look at where the world is heading. Maxwell Smart-Secret Agent had it figured out many years ago: Control and Chaos. There are proper, and effective, ways to do things. Tippie-toeing around people so they won't spread violence is not on my to do list. My opinion. Not trying to change anyone else's.



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I had an escaped Nazi criminal for a dentist when I was young. Swore I'd bite a finger off if I ever caught him somewhere when I got bigger. Saw him by the sandwich meat one day and stalked around to make sure it was him, and it was! Asked him if the name"just me" sounded familiar. He said of course it did. Guess so, he screamed it so much. When he said he was still in practice, I forgave him.
Walked away knowing he would never get it right, and pain was his main tool. Don't know for sure, but think he was hiding there so he could cause pain to children.

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Is it safe?
 
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