The death of God

[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION]

I know enough to say that you seem to fit the false humility stereotype:

Matthew 6:1-8

1“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
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You wish your will be done more than that of His.
 
[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION]

I apologize. I know you mean well. I meant it when I said no offense. I know you are fully capable of living up to being a light unto the world.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Define pure and water.
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Pure - without blemish or or fault, not mixed with any other matter.

Water is a chemical compound with the chemical formula H
2O. A water molecule contains one oxygen and two hydrogen atoms that are connected by covalent bonds. Water is a liquid at standard ambient temperature and pressure, but it often co-exists on Earth with its solid state, ice, and gaseous state, steam (water vapor). Source Wikipedia page on water.

I can do this literally forever.

edit: also I'm not going to do this literally forever.
 
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Eventhorizon said:
Previous to anyone in the world believing in God or gods what were people called? Before the first person conceived of a supernatural deity, what were people called? Atheist? No, atheist did not become a term used to describe someone UNTIL someone else said, "I believe in this god over here." People who did not believe the same were all of a sudden labeled atheists? The natural state of humankind is no belief in anything until they are taught about something.

A person who grew up by themselves on a deserted island and has never heard of God or any gods. What are they? An atheist?
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Completely going to ignore the rest of that argument, because reasons and then ask a question. If humans can not independently conceptualize deity without being taught about deities, then how did someone come up with the idea of God?

This started off as just me trying to make note of the proper usage of the word belief, i haven't once criticized or argued against atheism or anybody else's beliefs for that matter. But you know what that is obliviously what you want so let's do this, let's argue about religion over the internet.
 
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BrokenDaniel said:
Yes, very good point. I don't really subscribe to any belief system, but this is true, and pretty much sums up what Nietzsche harshly criticized, specially in his contemporaries colleagues, and other philosophers that he studied.
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Yes. I hear many folks today saying that Nietzche has lost contact with reality when he made his own philosophy, nihilism.
I think is one of the few atheist who got the atheism right, with all its implication. Nietzche was one of the few who understood the full implications of the inexistence of God.
 
Skarekrow said:
Actually, I do not in fact live in fear of God, or Gods, or any deity for that matter.
I understand that there are those who really do understand the meanings behind the parables and teachings in the Bible and all the other religious texts out there.
My point was....and this is speculation on my part...if you disagree, that’s fine, I’m not going to go search the internet for data to back up my claims -
There are a lot of people who consider themselves to be a follower of this or that religion, and out of those there are a lot of people who follow the rules of said religion not because they understand why they should or shouldn’t do something, not because it is the right thing to do in their heart, but because they live in fear of eternal repercussions.
There are those churches out there who constantly instill fear into their parishioners...with intense sermons on the end of days....fire and brimstone....the wrath of God!
They make insane claims like - God is punishing America for being accepting of homosexuals. Which translates in my mind as - God wants you to hate gays.
So let me get this right....God won’t answer the prayers of a young couple who’s daughter may be dying of cancer and spare her life, but he will cause destruction and death via hurricanes and natural disasters as some would gladly have us believe.
Sorry...I cannot adhere to such illogical speculative nonsense.
I chimed in on this thread because I feel it’s okay for anyone to believe anything they wish to believe and it isn’t my place to tell anyone why they should or shouldn’t.
But when people negatively affect others because they have a certain sectarian belief they wish to force on others either by trying to pass laws to make it so, or just through everyday prejudice then I have a very big issue with it.....that includes Atheists. They can be just as big of an asshole as the rest of them.
No one has the right to tell me or anyone else what I can or cannot do or believe so long as it’s within the confines of the law and is not hurting anyone else around me.
Sure there are gray areas...like abortion...some believe in life at conception...some don’t...you can protest all you want...spread the word of God and explain the reasons why you disagree...what I have a problem with is the hypocritical behavior that is rampant. If you are going to protest the abortion clinic then you better sure as hell have a shitload of unwanted kids that you have adopted.
How can a Christian look down upon with disgust the poor in this country? How do they justify being a supposed Christian and vote to cut food stamp programs...or unemployment...or vote against healthcare for everyone?
How can parents disown their very flesh and blood because they find out they are gay?
I have a problem with the hypocrisy of it all....not with the teachings....not with the individual people....I have a problem when a belief gives someone a reason to discriminate of hate another person.
If you don’t fear God then you seem to have a good and understanding relationship with you beliefs and faith....I think that is wonderful.
My Father always said integrity is doing what is right even when you know you can get away with it.
If we had one day a year when people knew God would not be watching them what do you think would happen?
Chaos.
Because people fear the repercussions from God....not because they have integrity.
And Atheists are stupid in many ways too...always trying to pass laws that really hold no meaning other than trying to make a point or get a dig in to the Christians...they are detrimental to their cause most of the time.
Why in the hell can’t people just respect the beliefs of one another enough to live peacefully? Is it such a difficult concept to grasp?
Jesus never sneered at anyone....he never looked down on anyone...he loved them all....he would have helped anyone without thought about their sexual orientation, their social status or wealth....in fact - wealth and heaven clash with each other according to the Bible. So why do we have these preachers living in their McMansions, driving expensive cars? Why do we even have people asking for money in the name of God at all? It’s moronic.
You know, I watched the 700 Club once....this fellow called in and told them how he and his wife were out of work...their child was sick and in the hospital...they had $100 left in the bank and didn’t know how they would pay the mortgage that month. Do you know what Pat Robertson told them to do? Guess.
He told them to SEND THEM their last $100 dollars and God would surely bless them. Are you fucking kidding me!?!?!
That is perverse!! It is WRONG WRONG WRONG on so many levels!
That is what I rant against! It doesn’t matter what you believe....Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist, Agnostic, Wiccan, Satanist, etc, etc..
Respect one another.
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The Bible does tell us to fear God. But the Bible doens't tell us to do good works and run from evil out of fear of God. We are said to do good for goodness sake, to be lovely for love sake, and all these moral standarts, whih is good, exists and are in the nature of God. You bring many interesting points, hope we'll talk about them a bit more later :D
 
I find it funny that people start to discuss things with me here and then thumb me down when it doesn’t jive with their own beliefs....childish.
(Not you [MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION])
 
Barnabas said:
Completely going to ignore the rest of that argument, because reasons and then ask a question. If humans can not independently conceptualize deity without being taught about deities, then how did someone come up with the idea of God?

This started off as just me trying to make note of the proper usage of the word belief, i haven't once criticized or argued against atheism or anybody else's beliefs for that matter. But you know what that is obliviously what you want so let's do this, let's argue about religion over the internet.
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My question is a question, not an argument.
 
No PM, so [EMAIL=" [MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]" [MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION][/EMAIL], I do not like watching movies where these beautiful deer are prancing around in their herd, little ones playing by jumping at each other, and the wolves move in. They single out a young one and force it to death, then eat it right there on the spot in front of the other deer. Sometimes others fight for the carcass, so one of the wolves drags the kill away. Birds come. You get the picture. I think about the guy filming it.

Next, this photographer takes us in TV land off to somewhere icy cold, where the baby seals are learning to swim. Great white sharks approach and attack them for food. Some of the sharks actually throw their pup into the air many times like they are playing with it. Baby, can we change the channel?


When I was a child we had an aquarium with guppies, and several other types of fish. The female guppies were amazing in that we could see the babies inside her. When she had a baby, she just dropped it into the water in no specific place. We would say, "Hurry, hurry up, hurry" to see them make it to the bottom where they just might have a chance to hide. Gulp; there went another one.

Lions killing the young so they can get to the lioness...The lioness hides her cubs. The baby seals try to hurry out of the water. Look at how jumpy a wild deer is. They live in fear; fear I know nothing about. That is, unless a bolt of lightning strike next to me with a roaring thunder. Holy smokes at first; feeling really small here; I'm still alive; man was I lucky. All those thoughts in about a minute.

I truly wish for you to have a better understanding. Through counsel with friends this morning, I will try my best not to bother you about it any longer. I tried several times squared and failed. I pray you ask for serenity. I ask it for you.
 
Eventhorizon said:
My question is a question, not an argument.
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Argument- an exchange of divergent or opposite views

Your question is an argument. My question is an argument, my reply to your question would be an argument and unless we reached consensus your response would be as well an argument. Also it's a tautology.


Edit: assuming you can get to point prior to theism in the history of human thought, you would either still retroactively refer to them as atheist do to current understanding of their being a duality of thought. Atheism requires a duality, an opposite, to be a word with any kind of meaning. In a world without deity or a notion of deity then their wouldn't be a word for atheism. These words exsit for the purpose of classification and sorting they exist independent of your beliefs.
 
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LucyJr said:
Yes. I hear many folks today saying that Nietzche has lost contact with reality when he made his own philosophy, nihilism.
I think is one of the few atheist who got the atheism right, with all its implication. Nietzche was one of the few who understood the full implications of the inexistence of God.
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What i admire in him is that he tried to go further nihilism, and in many ways he did, the death of god when put in a context (when someone reads his books and tries to get an idea of what he really tried to do) is a tragic but very beautiful statement.
 
BrokenDaniel said:
What i admire in him is that he tried to go further nihilism, and in many ways he did, the death of god when put in a context (when someone reads his books and tries to get an idea of what he really tried to do) is a tragic but very beautiful statement.
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Yes, I agree. He was a very strong man, althought I don't agree at al with his philosophy.
I heard that right before his death he said something like "Mother, I'm stupid". Interesting, huh?
 
LucyJr said:
Yes, I agree. He was a very strong man, althought I don't agree at al with his philosophy.
I heard that right before his death he said something like "Mother, I'm stupid". Interesting, huh?
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Ha, i didn't knew that, funny, even if it's not true, i could still picture him saying it.
 
Barnabas said:
Argument- an exchange of divergent or opposite views

Your question is an argument. My question is an argument, my reply to your question would be an argument and unless we reached consensus your response would be as well an argument. Also it's a tautology.


Edit: assuming you can get to point prior to theism in the history of human thought, you would either still retroactively refer to them as atheist do to current understanding of their being a duality of thought. Atheism requires a duality, an opposite, to be a word with any kind of meaning. In a world without deity or a notion of deity then their wouldn't be a word for atheism. These words exist for the purpose of classification and sorting they exist independent of your beliefs.
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Errr...ok. Back to your point about about conceiving of God on ones own. A person alone might convenience of an imaginary friend. This could be God. A person drinking from a lead lined cup might hear voices. This could be God. Whether or not a person would or would not conceive of God on their own is an argument that cant be proven again. People want God to exist so it does.
 
just me said:
No PM, so Skarekrow" @Skarekrow, I do not like watching movies where these beautiful deer are prancing around in their herd, little ones playing by jumping at each other, and the wolves move in. They single out a young one and force it to death, then eat it right there on the spot in front of the other deer. Sometimes others fight for the carcass, so one of the wolves drags the kill away. Birds come. You get the picture. I think about the guy filming it.

Next, this photographer takes us in TV land off to somewhere icy cold, where the baby seals are learning to swim. Great white sharks approach and attack them for food. Some of the sharks actually throw their pup into the air many times like they are playing with it. Baby, can we change the channel?


When I was a child we had an aquarium with guppies, and several other types of fish. The female guppies were amazing in that we could see the babies inside her. When she had a baby, she just dropped it into the water in no specific place. We would say, "Hurry, hurry up, hurry" to see them make it to the bottom where they just might have a chance to hide. Gulp; there went another one.

Lions killing the young so they can get to the lioness...The lioness hides her cubs. The baby seals try to hurry out of the water. Look at how jumpy a wild deer is. They live in fear; fear I know nothing about. That is, unless a bolt of lightning strike next to me with a roaring thunder. Holy smokes at first; feeling really small here; I'm still alive; man was I lucky. All those thoughts in about a minute.

I truly wish for you to have a better understanding. Through counsel with friends this morning, I will try my best not to bother you about it any longer. I tried several times squared and failed. I pray you ask for serenity. I ask it for you.
Click to expand...


I have a pretty good understanding....I truly believe that the Bible contains wonderful morals, wonderful teaching parables, and if try your live your life as Jesus lived his then I feel you would be a very kind, honest person.

I was not implying that YOU personally were living your life in fear of the Lord....I was stating that there are many Christians...and other religions to boot, that stress fear in God....or at least his wrath. Just as children love and respect their Father, so I believe that is the relationship many have with God....and just like children, they fear his wrath...him getting the belt to whack you on the rear end.
You see...I don’t fear his wrath....because my Father in my heart, would never cause me harm....he wouldn’t punish me for being ignorant to something....and in this life here on earth - we are all truly ignorant. You may disagree with me on all those points...that is fine...my original point was none of us have the right to profess that we have it all figured out...because we don’t....not Atheists, not Christians, etc, etc....
None of us will ever really know what lies beyond the veil until we cross the veil itself.
And what if you were wrong about it all? Well, so what...then you lived your life as a good, compassionate person.
And what if you have it right and I have it backward? Then two things can occur...
God, being my creator and Father will know my heart and soul and understand why I feel the way I feel - end of story...if he truly knew what was in my heart, he would see no ill will there...only curiosity and a failure to hold onto faith.
Or...
God is wrathful and I will go to Hell...and the whole time I am there I will continue to disagree with God as a wrathful being...someone who is unjustly punishing me for minor offenses.
But you see...a just God....an understanding God will not punish anyone for being a good person regardless of his/her religious beliefs. A just God understands that there are certain mentalities, backgrounds, ethnicity’s, etc., that create and enable us to believe or not believe certain things. That is why our country is so full of Christians....that is why Saudi’s are Muslim...sure it doesn’t mean you are unable to learn about and change religions or beliefs, but if it means your family disowning you or not, it certainly hinders things.
You don’t have to convert me @just me....you shouldn’t worry about my soul...I am okay with where I am and where I may end up...because there either is or isn’t a God...if there isn’t, there isn’t....but I still believe that there is something after this life here. If there is, and God is all knowing, then that would also cause him to be just through his infinite knowledge and wisdom...and I whole-heartedly am not afraid that such a God would punish me.
That is just what seems right and true to me...you can hold your own opinion...that was what I was originally promoting.
Cheers.
 
[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION]
Sorry...I missed the post about taking it to the PM department...I wasn’t trying to offend you or embarrass you.
 
No need for apologies; no foul. It is finished.
And for the records; I was not trying to convert you, merely trying to get you to see something.
 
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Rift Zone said:
I personally think scientists do pretty good with philosophy. Specially the space scientists. I could be wrong.
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You mean cosmologists?
I haven't heard what a lot have to say about philosophy, but I have heard some pretty poor attempts at philosophy by some. Lawerence Krauss for example has had an issue with a lot of philosophers lately because he's been trying to say nothing is not nothing.
 
*shrugs*
 
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