[PUG] The "English Only" Movement
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Bird
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Barnabas
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you say that like it's an excuse?
Bird
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Actually, I don't say it as though it's an excuse.
You apparently interpret it as an excuse
I was merely pointing this out. There are hundreds
of things we do inefficiently. We just want to change
this because we're selfish. It doesn't come down to
inefficiency. I believe you are the one finding an excuse
here. I was adding on to your already existing excuse.
Kavalan
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Germany, Iceland, and Mexico to name a few don't have "official" languages. The closest is de facto. They seem to do well without it.
Barnabas
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mexico is doing well? when did that happen?
also recession, isn't it in the global range?
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I guess it would depend on how you define "well", but would a nationally enforced language make them do any "better"?
Bird
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Perhaps while we're all arguing about the dynamics of a one language
nation we should look up proper grammar techniques and word spellings.
That way our arguments don't make us look like hypocrites.
We want everyone to know our language, and yet we don't ourselves?
hm... tricky tricky.
nation we should look up proper grammar techniques and word spellings.
That way our arguments don't make us look like hypocrites.
We want everyone to know our language, and yet we don't ourselves?
hm... tricky tricky.
Kavalan
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For that reason I vote for the adoption of a romance language as the second. The structure for French and Spanish is simpler IMO.
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Fair enough, but the question still stands. What good does it do when enforced? So far in California it has forced ELL students to learn English in one year and then be forced under-prepared into mainstream classrooms, and in Arizona has/will make cultural studies classes illegal. From my standpoint I just see it as alienating when immigrants broadly and genuinely want to learn English, but are not provided the opportunities.
Think about if you went to Africa for a year with little or no knowledge of the language of the country you find yourself in. How comforting would it be to find a government agency that had documents in English and spoke English? There are many courtrooms in States that have official languages that will only do their preceding in English. Is this fair?
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Making English the official language only encourages the limited mentality many Americans have, and that is conformism. We live in a global world were several languages are being employed, which is why you see European School systems teaching several languages. I believe this may be in part due to the fat hat we are considered number one in many areas, and that English is the official global language. This of course will change in the near future, yet there's so many little interest put into the learning of languages. Anyhow, to focus more on topic, I believe it is highly unfair to have any sort of requirement for a standard language. Americans were not formed only by people from English-speaking countries, but from all over the world. The US is a nation of immigrants that has gone through a lot of history, a little change and I would probably be replying this post in French for all we know.If we are so nationalistic about our ''language'', being America after all, why don't we form a new one?. We claim so much patriotism, more so than England itself, for a language that is not really ours.
invisible
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YOUR country, YOUR language. who exactly are you presuming to speak for, and what makes english the language which they should be legislated to speak in? have you ever bothered to learn any native american languages as a condition of inhabiting YOUR country, or have you just continued to trample them with english english english? but nevermind; whether or not you have is actually irrelevant.
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That would end up becoming an issue of equal protection under the law as well as a federalism issue. Basically, you will be depriving some legal residents of the united states of their rights if you make everything English only.
The law would violate some state constitutions and goes against the spirit of federalism, wherein we allow states to be laboratories of democracy.
In other words, the movement is just stupid. It would be so problematic with all the native americans on reservations too.
Also, California state isn't known for making intelligent decisions in regard to public education.
The law would violate some state constitutions and goes against the spirit of federalism, wherein we allow states to be laboratories of democracy.
In other words, the movement is just stupid. It would be so problematic with all the native americans on reservations too.
Also, California state isn't known for making intelligent decisions in regard to public education.
Soulful
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Generally speaking I'm a firm believer that knowing more than one language is mentally enriching, culturally stimulating, socially enabling, and obviously professionally advantageous. I mean, it kind of goes without saying, doesn't it? But I don't quite understand the context.
What are the arguments for doing this?
What are the arguments for doing this?
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Well they should. It's clear as day what their offical languages are. German, Icelandic, and Spanish respectively. It makes no sense what so ever to not have a official language in my eyes. Perhaps it is just my J getting irratated, but something as important as language should be formalized. Of course it can be taken a bit too far, belgium has sort of done that from what I have seen. There is a rather odd divide between flanders and walloons because of the way their language (dutch and french) is made to be. @The Jester will likely know more on this then I do though.
I don't agree. In particular with the bold. Making english official will make amercians conform more? That simply is not going to happen. All that will do is change some documentation and regulation. I really do think that if you want to live in this country, you need to be at least minimally proficent in the standard language of the country. While I would love to move to certain european country perhaps later in my life, I would not do so until I learned the home languages of that country to a resonable level to where I could speak it. This simply becomes an issue of fairness to people who live their, and issues of communication. You also have to keep in mind we are not europe, europe has a much more diverse set of languages in a much smaller area. There is a much greater need to learn multiple languages there there is here. That is not to say that others shouldn't be required to learn a few other langauges in school, but english obviously should come first.
How is this unfair? Many countries the world over have a standard required languages. It makes perfect sense to do so. If a languages is predominately spoken in a country, it needs to be standardized. Some countries (switzerland for example) has several equally distrubted languages. In case like that they could be equally standarized.
And honestly, why does it matter who formed the country, and where they came from. It's completely irrelevent because it does not effect the future or today. What's now is now, and what's now is that the major language here is english. And who cares if it is ours or not. MANY countries throught the world don't have their own language. It was adopted.
As I said in my previous post I think it is completely unfair to make a country limited to their standard language and only that. Thus restricting writing or speaking of any other. On the same side though, there is a majority, and that needs to be universially understood and recognized. I am not opposed to having a second sub language. Spanish would obviously make the most sense. In regions to which there is a large spanish speaking population, that should also be made easily accessable. However this should not free people who are legal residents of the country from knowing the main language.
T
The Jester
Yeah, there has been quite some tension about the languages used in our administration.
It's a debate which has been going on for quite some years,
but there are other factors that influence the whole thing.
We weren't allowed to be taught in Dutch until the 60's. We have striven for cultural indepence for quite some time.
(Belgium basically was the bitch of everyone in Europe.)
In the early 70's, when Wallonia was doing better economy-wise, they gained more economic independence and we gained more cultural independence.
Now however, they're not doing that good anymore, and they need more and more support from the federal government.
Every measure that might even indicate we'd be a bit more independent from eachother is firmly rejected by them.
Which I can understand, but it slows down the Law system a lot.
Our Parliament can't even make decent decisions because the Flemish and the Walloons don't want to do eachother 'favours'.
I don't think there's really much hatred between the Walloons and the Flemish though.
I don't mind having been taught French, but that might be because I like languages ;P
Then there's our third official language: German.
You never hear them complain, it's always the Flemish or the Walloons. ;P
Then again, they're only with 72.000
There is also a desire of seperatism in our right-wing parties.
I don't see myself as Flemish, I see myself as Belgian.
On topic:
I'm not American myself, but why not have multiple official languages?
Shit, we're a country with about 10.5 million people, and we have 3 official languages ;P
Aren't there a lot of Spanish-speaking people in America?
I don't really see the harm. It respects the cultural differences.
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I don't really mind this so much, not as an idea anyway, although I don't like the bigotted reasons behind this.
Where I work we have to provide a tenancy lease in English and Polish, yet English is our official language. The reason behind this is because if we don't our Polish tenants could go to court and they'd declare our lease null and void. It's like wtf? If I were to use this excuse in Poland I'd be laughed out the room, yet our government bends over and asks if the vodka bottle could be inserted more (I apologise for the gross imagery with racist undertones).
English may not be the official language of the US, but why isn't it?
Where I work we have to provide a tenancy lease in English and Polish, yet English is our official language. The reason behind this is because if we don't our Polish tenants could go to court and they'd declare our lease null and void. It's like wtf? If I were to use this excuse in Poland I'd be laughed out the room, yet our government bends over and asks if the vodka bottle could be inserted more (I apologise for the gross imagery with racist undertones).
English may not be the official language of the US, but why isn't it?