[PUG] The "English Only" Movement

[DoveAlexa]

For that reason I vote for the adoption of a romance language as the second. The structure for French and Spanish is simpler IMO.

Gah, French! It takes twice as long or more to say anything in French as it does English. I also tried learning and all the little endings on every word got confusing.

I say we all need to learn Klingon!

 

[88chaz88]

German.

If they shorten some syllables and remove the maculine/feminimity of the words it would be superior in every respect.

 

[NeverAmI]

In regards to @mf , i'm not certain you are wrong... maybe just incomplete. There is far too much biological evidence kicking around suggesting that up until the point where the brain stops growing (11-15 years old, depending on individual), it's an incredible sponge and is not just learning, but learning HOW to learn (and WHAT best to learn.) After that point it continues to learn, but mostly along the paths of least resistance (in reference to the aforementioned 'what to learn.') A child taught multiple languages early on can continue to do so with remarkable ease throughout their life while a child who only learns one prior to this point will struggle with and more often than not give up on learning the second simply because they hadn't "established" that particular pathway.

This theory has been proven false (Thankfully). Neurogenesis happens throughout life, although it is the strongest in adolescence (hence spongy) and also hits hard at puberty.

In fact, anti-depressants have shown to stimulate neurogenesis in addition to exercise. Stress limits neurogenesis. Learning, or stimulation, is needed to put those new neurons to use. Many adults get out of practice because they don't exercise and they let their minds go on auto-pilot a lot of the time with entertainment, mundane jobs, etc.

http://www.sfn.org/index.aspx?pagename=brainbriefings_adult_neurogenesis

Research over the last decade has produced growing evidence that the adult human brain creates new neurons, a process known as neurogenesis. Recent findings show that many of these new neurons survive and integrate themselves into the working brain, suggesting the potential for a self-healing brain. If researchers can harness and enhance neurogenesis, it could lead to improved treatments for many disorders, diseases, or damage -- from Alzheimer's and epilepsy to stroke and traumatic brain injury -- and it can help keep our minds and memories sharp.

 

[NeverAmI]

I find this notion of being unable to 'handle' another language other than English as incredibly ignorant and self-limiting.

 

[DoveAlexa]

This theory has been proven false. Neurogenesis happens throughout life, although it is the strongest in adolescence (hence spongy) and also hits hard at puberty.

In fact, anti-depressants have shown to stimulate neurogenesis in addition to exercise. Stress limits neurogenesis. Learning, or stimulation, is needed to put those new neurons to use. Many adults get out of practice because they don't exercise and they let their minds go on auto-pilot a lot of the time with entertainment and mundane jobs, etc.

http://www.sfn.org/index.aspx?pagename=brainbriefings_adult_neurogenesis

I imagine that it could be because adults feel that taking it easy is the reward for having worked so hard figuring out how to live as a kid and adolescant. Heh, but we don't get a break anymore now that we live to our 80's and beyond, and the world changes so much each decade. We need to keep relearning life all the time now!

Also, if exercise helsp our brain regenerate and sex is pretty good exercise, it would explain stories I hear of some prostitutes knowing 40 languages XD. Oh lol, I'll go before I make this thread be put in the Mature section.

 

[NeverAmI]

Also, if exercise helsp our brain regenerate and sex is pretty good exercise, it would explain stories I hear of some prostitutes knowing 40 languages XD. Oh lol, I'll go before I make this thread be put in the Mature section.

LOL, you better ask them what classifies as "knowing" a language. Perhaps they only know how to say hello and a few other select phrases. If not, they could get a MUCH better job than prostituting. Unless prostitution is what they prefer, for the neurogenesis and stuff.

 

[laurie]

I think even if you go on holiday somewhere you should know a little of the language. It's rude not to speak the language of the place you're going to/living in, as it causes so many problems for others.
But then, it depends of where you live - if English is the most popular language spoken in a certain area, but there's a small group of French-speakers, then wouldn't it be bes tto try to learn a bit of both? Or whichever you find yourself the most capable with. At least, then you can work/live with the people who's language you speak.
But then, shouldn't the world have one universal language to get rid of this kind of division? And I don't think it's fair for it to be an already existing language, as it puts some people at a disadvantage.

So, we need a new language that everyone is made to learn from the start of school from now on. It may not work for our current generations, but there will always be more children, and this will enable the world to become a more unified place.... maybe?

It's going to take a while.

On the subject of the topic post, I don't think everything should have to be English. Language is useful, butthey should make allowances for other cultures - and language is a big part of culture, isn't it? Have I just contradicted myself?

 

[Bird]

I think even if you go on holiday somewhere you should know a little of the language. It's rude not to speak the language of the place you're going to/living in, as it causes so many problems for others.
But then, it depends of where you live - if English is the most popular language spoken in a certain area, but there's a small group of French-speakers, then wouldn't it be bes tto try to learn a bit of both? Or whichever you find yourself the most capable with. At least, then you can work/live with the people who's language you speak.
But then, shouldn't the world have one universal language to get rid of this kind of division? And I don't think it's fair for it to be an already existing language, as it puts some people at a disadvantage.

So, we need a new language that everyone is made to learn from the start of school from now on. It may not work for our current generations, but there will always be more children, and this will enable the world to become a more unified place.... maybe?

It's going to take a while.

On the subject of the topic post, I don't think everything should have to be English. Language is useful, butthey should make allowances for other cultures - and language is a big part of culture, isn't it? Have I just contradicted myself?

I think a global language may ultimately lead to the loss of sense of culture.
Perhaps not culture, but ancestral individuality? I don't know how to explain this
that well. But I hope you can interpret what I mean by my shoddy commentary.

 

[DoveAlexa]

I think even if you go on holiday somewhere you should know a little of the language. It's rude not to speak the language of the place you're going to/living in, as it causes so many problems for others.
But then, it depends of where you live - if English is the most popular language spoken in a certain area, but there's a small group of French-speakers, then wouldn't it be bes tto try to learn a bit of both? Or whichever you find yourself the most capable with. At least, then you can work/live with the people who's language you speak.
But then, shouldn't the world have one universal language to get rid of this kind of division? And I don't think it's fair for it to be an already existing language, as it puts some people at a disadvantage.

So, we need a new language that everyone is made to learn from the start of school from now on. It may not work for our current generations, but there will always be more children, and this will enable the world to become a more unified place.... maybe?

It's going to take a while.

On the subject of the topic post, I don't think everything should have to be English. Language is useful, butthey should make allowances for other cultures - and language is a big part of culture, isn't it? Have I just contradicted myself?

They tried that with esperonto but its not really catching on.

 

[kita]

The US seems too geographically large and culturally diverse to force one language on all of those people. I also think an official language would be against the spirit of the constitution.

I don't understand the mentality of being willing to speak a foreign language in another country but not at home. Why limit ourselves in that way? Being multi-lingual makes us better people.

 

[DoveAlexa]

LOL, you better ask them what classifies as "knowing" a language. Perhaps they only know how to say hello and a few other select phrases. If not, they could get a MUCH better job than prostituting. Unless prostitution is what they prefer, for the neurogenesis and stuff.

Phrases like "I'm 18"? Bahaha.

Also, [MENTION=2811]kita[/MENTION], I tired several times to learn another language, I'm just not able. I hope this does not reflect on me as being less of a person in this respect.

Not only do I have no one to talk to in a new language, but I would end up having to commit myself to the task more completely than my own relationship and any work at home or professionally I would do. If it was suddenly forced upon me to learn, I think I would be "left behind" socially and economically. I feel this would include most adults from a uni-lingual background. This is why I wouldn't move to a nation who doesn't speak English primarily. I understand the heavy task it is, and thus I don't put myself in that position. People who DO move to another country do put themselves in that position, and they re aware of it. All I'm saying is suddenly learning a new language is more than a simple side hobby, its serious and hard.

 

[NeverAmI]

I think language is often inseparable from a lifestyle or culture. There is an interesting article on how language affects the way we think.

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/boroditsky09/boroditsky09_index.html

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yet despite nearly constant attention and debate, very little empirical work was done on these questions until recently. For a long time, the idea that language might shape thought was considered at best untestable and more often simply wrong. Research in my labs at Stanford University and at MIT has helped reopen this question. We have collected data around the world: from China, Greece, Chile, Indonesia, Russia, and Aboriginal Australia. What we have learned is that people who speak different languages do indeed think differently and that even flukes of grammar can profoundly affect how we see the world. Language is a uniquely human gift, central to our experience of being human. Appreciating its role in constructing our mental lives brings us one step closer to understanding the very nature of humanity.[/FONT]

 

[~jet]

It isn't though we have no official language...

Also this country wasn't solely English...

New York was a Dutch colony called New Amsterdam, New Orleans was a French colony... Detroit was a French fort. We are a nation built by immigrants from many different backgrounds. Chinatown is Chinatown because it is a haven for those in the country who don't know English but need to survive. It is in their best interest to be able to speak English but people can live without learning the language.

Personally I would mandate the learning of three(min) languages. Its damn useful.

I'm not disagreeing that people should learn multiple languages... it's good for their intellectual health. Still, all the colonies mentioned (minus the inner recesses of places like chinatown) have historically learned english. Such ancestries now are a thing of reflection, identity, etc... not so much language anymore.

 

[magister343]

This reminded me of one time I saw someone on the news complain about "non speaking English people." Until then I had no idea that mute Brits were such a problem in the US.

 

[testing]

This reminded me of one time I saw someone on the news complain about "non speaking English people." Until then I had no idea that mute Brits were such a problem in the US.

Bwahahahaha!!! Oh, no, mute Brits are not a problem at all! (J/K)

Regarding the whole English-only movement, well, it seems to be a good thing for everybody in the country to be able to understand each other, therefore I am not against having an official language, per se. After all, if I were to move to France, I would speak French, right? Makes sense. When I go to Mexico I speak Spanish. (Badly, but I speak it.)

That said, the pragmatic fact of life in the US is that we have a great deal of Spanish-speakers (and other languages as well, but mostly Spanish) and making reasonable accomodations for them is just facing facts and being humane and decent. I would personally push to make sure everyone could speak English, because it is the current language of the culture, and if you can't speak it, you risk splitting people up too much, and you lose opportunities for success, friendship, everything.

But at the same time, I think we in the US need to become more multilingual, because for decades and decades it has not been at all necessary. We've been spoiled. But it is going to be necessary! By 2040 (something like that) Hispanics are going to make up a huge percent of the population. I would not want to create a chasm or divide between people. Not speaking each other's language creates that divide. We'd all do well to speak both, I think, and I wish I could speak Spanish really well.

 

[bamf]

To answer the people who've asked why we don't have a national official language, as kita pointed out we are far too geographically disperse. Like I said before, Hawaii's official language is Hawaiian, and the "common wealth territories" have their own official languages. I don't think Native American reservations would be effected though because it is my understanding that for all intents and purposes they are sovereign nations.

I do not understand the need of an official language in the US though. Almost everything is already done in English, and it really is required to do anything outside of your culturally isolated neighborhood. Immigrants that come here want to learn English. What would having an official language do exactly? Create some sense of national unity because all of a sudden everyone who speaks English now speaks English officially?

My problem with official languages in the United States is that they go beyond just being "official" to becoming discriminatory. Legal hearings only in English, voting ballots only in English, medical information only in English, schooling only in English, and so on.

 

[Bird]

official languages in the United States is that they go beyond just being "official" to becoming discriminatory. L

+1

 

[testing]

...My problem with official languages in the United States is that they go beyond just being "official" to becoming discriminatory. Legal hearings only in English, voting ballots only in English, medical information only in English, schooling only in English, and so on.

Yes, you're right, I would not want that scenario at all. Probably exactly what would happen, too -- I remember certain Native American languages were virtually anhilliated years ago by the children being taught English and only English.

Still, there is something to be said for a common language... those who "melt" into the melting pot as a general rule do better than those who don't... generally.

And besides, based on the population growth of the Spanish-speaking US citizens, this sort of mindset it in its death throes, anyway. At least, I think it is...

I wonder: there are other countries with multiple languages and dialects (in addition to Belgium).

China, for example. They have all sorts of languages, Mandarin, I don't even know what other kinds of languages.

In geographic size and cultural diversity, China is perhaps more comparable to the US than Belgium... I think, isn't it? I wonder what they do there, and whether there is any "official" dialect, or if people routinely speak Mandarin, as well as some other dialect, or whether they've written oppressive laws that wind up discriminating against certain language-speakers? Just curious as to how this issue is handled in other places. Seems like we are not the only country to have this issue.

 

[Bird]

I wonder: there are other countries with multiple languages and dialects (in addition to Belgium).

... Way more than just China and Belgium.


And here is something I'm posting because it mentions
China and Belgium and population. Enjoy.

 

[testing]

^^^Well, folks, that proves it. We all just need to learn to speak Chinese! But which kind?

I hear it Chinese is very tricky to learn for English-speakers, and they put a great deal of emphasis on tone and expression -- more than simply the word's sound -- how you say it carries more meaning than it does in English. A word is a word is a word, in English. But you can say the same word with a different tone and make it mean something completely different in Chinese.

Isn't that fascinating?

But never mind, I'm derailing...