[ENTJ] The First 2020 Presidential Debate (Biden vs Trump)

[Pin]

Personally, I'm not satisfied. He doesn't ever disavow Nazis unless he's pressured to do so. I don't think it's just a blind-spot.

I suspect that President Donald J. Trump is, in fact, a racist. Especially with evidence like this.

Spoiler: A disgusting racist.

 

[Reason]

Personally, I'm not satisfied. He doesn't ever disavow Nazis unless he's pressured to do so. I don't think it's just a blind-spot.

I suspect that President Donald J. Trump is, in fact, a racist. Especially with evidence like this.

Spoiler: A disgusting racist.

And this is why Trump shouldn't bother with these kinds of accusations, once you disprove one the goalpost shifts and it just doesn't matter. Nobody that watches the compilation of him condemning white supremacists who dislike him are going to change their minds. It's an exercise in futility. In a week, despite the denouncements, the same people who watch the compilation of his denouncing white supremacists will be saying he praises them or failed to denounce them.

Confirmation bias in full swing. Reality is immaterial.

 

[MoonFlier]

Even if Trump is not racist, his refusal to call them out and denounce them in the present day associates him with them. He never will either as he fears loosing their votes by saying anything against them. This behavior is not restricted to white supremacists either. He does this with all groups are not firmly set against him. Among other things, Trump lacks conviction and will change what he says (and recalls) as the wind blows.

 

[Matty]

It just seems like the American definition of "racist" = white non democrat.

I'll bet if black people switch to Republicans, the democrats would go full KKK. They already call black Republicans uncle Tom, and not really black.

 

[Sandie33]

Confirmation bias in full swing. Reality is immaterial.

Hasn't this been the MO all along though?

The past 4 years has felt like a political free-for-all with belief systems being tossed around like confetti in a ticker-tape parade. Meaning, what and where is the shared reality?

The discombobulated mess in America currently has many of us stepping back to avoid the shrapnel that's all around. And, in doing so we are called out as cowards and not standing up for this or that group or topic. When in reality it's a smart move to step to the side and quietly carry on. When the dust clears, as it always does, perhaps the view will be transparent and issues resolved with a little less fanfare.

IMHO, I sure as hellfire do not want any of it to be my 'new normal'.

 

[Pin]

And this is why Trump shouldn't bother with these kinds of accusations, once you disprove one the goalpost shifts and it just doesn't matter. Nobody that watches the compilation of him condemning white supremacists who dislike him are going to change their minds. It's an exercise in futility. In a week, despite the denouncements, the same people who watch the compilation of his denouncing white supremacists will be saying he praises them or failed to denounce them.

Confirmation bias in full swing. Reality is immaterial.

Anyone who says that he didn't disavow White Supremacists or the KKK is wrong. However, it's quite clear that he is a racist based upon the beliefs that his actions and words demonstrate.

Hell, maybe he's not a racist inside of the caverns of his own mind but he has certainly said and done things that were racist throughout his life and career. On that basis, I've concluded that President Trump is not just a racist, but a prolific one.

The most off-putting for me personally was his treatment of the Central Park 5. He called for the execution of innocent Black and Hispanic teenagers on no other grounds than what seem to be his own racist biases. These boys (now men) have been exonerated by DNA evidence; Donald Trump still thinks they're guilty.

In fact, he took out a full page ad calling for their deaths, the deaths of minors. This is the ad.

Spoiler

These are the actions of a racist, a prolific racist.

Why do I suspect he has racist biases? Because of statements like, “The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

Or

“I have a great relationship with the blacks. I’ve always had a great relationship with the blacks.”

Or

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending the best. They’re not sending you, they’re sending people that have lots of problems and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists… And some, I assume, are good people,”

Or

"He doesn't have a birth certificate, or if he does, there's something on that certificate that is very bad for him. Now, somebody told me -- and I have no idea if this is bad for him or not, but perhaps it would be -- that where it says 'religion,' it might have 'Muslim.' And if you're a Muslim, you don't change your religion, by the way," Trump said of President Obama.

 

[Pin]

Accounting for American history, it's quite clear that the president is a racist.

Associating racial minorities with evil, crime, depravity, or antisocial (psychopathic) traits is nothing new in this country.

Minstrel Shows might be considered uncouth today but their cultural impact still lingers.

Throughout American history, the association of black people with crime, for example, has allowed things like lynchings and the excessive use of force by law enforcement to occur with little to no consequence.

 

[Sloe Djinn]

And this is why Trump shouldn't bother with these kinds of accusations, once you disprove one the goalpost shifts and it just doesn't matter. Nobody that watches the compilation of him condemning white supremacists who dislike him are going to change their minds. It's an exercise in futility. In a week, despite the denouncements, the same people who watch the compilation of his denouncing white supremacists will be saying he praises them or failed to denounce them.

Confirmation bias in full swing. Reality is immaterial.

I'd agree that he did denounce white supremacist groups several times, however wouldn't you concede that when asked to do this during a recent live presidential debate, the response (when asked in reference to any and all white supremacists) "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by" was hardly a denunciation during what is obviously a critical time for him to appeal to his base? In such polarized times I would agree with your observation about the goal posts moving, but he moved the goal post on his own there.

 

[acd]

Even if Trump is not racist, his refusal to call them out and denounce them in the present day associates him with them. He never will either as he fears losing their votes by saying anything against them. This behavior is not restricted to white supremacists either. He does this with all groups are not firmly set against him. Among other things, Trump lacks conviction and will change what he says (and recalls) as the wind blows.

I agree.
He clearly has no principles. That's why he couldn't even just say "Yes, I denounce white supremacists." He had to try to put the heat on "the left" and then tell a violent group to "stand by." To just say "Yes I denounce them" would not serve him.

Anyone who is defending Trump, I'd like to hear your defense of his choice of words to the Proud Boys. Because it's really bizarre if not some kind of dog whistle. Why would he say "Stand by?" But maybe that's pointless. Because this is what he does intentionally. He is indirect because he knows people will try to figure it out. And it's a distraction while he's screwing up elseware. It can mean whatever you think it means. The Proud Boys took it as an order. Look up how they are reacting to his words. He does this about EVERYTHING. When he suggested injecting bleach to cure corona virus, he later said he was being sarcastic. But it was after his supporters were racking their brains trying to justify how stupid the media and everyone else is because Trump has intricate knowledge of fighting viruses that left apparently even his own doctors puzzled lol. He did this in the middle of pandemic. People are dying. People are out of work and going broke. He's gotta be a psychopath.

Anyway, he never really denounced it at all. It's always "Sure I would be willing to do that," or "If it would make you feel better." So in a sense, he's minimizing the issue. Because he either supports white supremacists or just does not care. (Personally I think he doesn't really give a shit about anyone or anything unless it boosts his ego or gives him an advantage.). He is never direct in these things. He always gives himself some plausible deniability on either side. So anyone who doesn't want to think he's a racist can say he disavowed it but others can say, "It doesn't matter if he is or isn't, his rhetoric reflects our ideology.." "Or, of course he can't come out and say he supports us, but that was a little wink right there!" There is a reason Trump resonates with hate groups.

In 2016 he wouldn't disavow David Duke's endorsement. However, it's suddenly convenient he's going to name KKK a terrorist group this many years after he's in office when there's an election in a few weeks.

 

[Pin]

Get him out.

 

[Lady Jolanda]

Meaning, what and where is the shared reality?

MHO, I sure as hellfire do not want any of it to be my 'new normal'.

I agree with this.

I loathe fake news. You can't trust anything anymore. And when you don't know what's real, how are you supposed to make proper decisions? Fuck the post-truth society.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I agree.
He clearly has no principles. That's why he couldn't even just say "Yes, I denounce white supremacists." He had to try to put the heat on "the left" and then tell a violent group to "stand by."

Anyone who is defending Trump, I'd like to hear your defense of his choice of words to the Proud Boys. Because it's really bizarre if not some kind of dog whistle. Why would he say "Stand by?" And this is what he does intentionally. He is indirect because he knows people will try to figure it out. And it's a distraction while he's screwing up elseware. It can mean whatever you think it means. The Proud Boys took it as an order. Look up how they are reacting to his words. He does this about EVERYTHING. When he suggested injecting bleach to cure corona virus, he later said he was being sarcastic. But it was after his supporters were racking their brains trying to justify how stupid the media and everyone else is because Trump has intricate knowledge of fighting viruses that left apparently even his own doctors puzzled lol. He's gotta be a psychopath.

Anyway, he never really denounced it at all. It's always "Sure I would be willing to do that," or "If it would make you feel better." So in a sense, he's minimizing the issue. Because he either supports white supremacists or just does not care. (Personally I think he doesn't really give a shit about anyone or anything unless it boosts his ego or gives him an advantage.). He is never direct in these things. He always gives himself some plausible deniability on either side. So anyone who doesn't want to think he's a racist can say he disavowed it but others can say, "It doesn't matter if he is or isn't, his rhetoric reflects our ideology.." "Or, of course he can't come out and say he supports us, but that was a little wink right there!" There is a reason Trump resonates with hate groups.

In 2016 he wouldn't disavow David Duke's endorsement. However, it's suddenly convenient he's going to name KKK a terrorist group this many years after he's in office when there's an election in a few weeks.

It's all gaslighting and deliberate disinformation.

Nobody knows what the fuck is going on.

The authors of a 2006 book about psychopathy in the workplace, Snakes in Suits describe a five-phase model of how a typical workplace psychopath climbs to and maintains power. In phase three, manipulation, the psychopath will create a scenario of "psychopathic fiction"—where positive information about themselves and negative disinformation about others will be created, casting others in roles as a part of a network of pawns or patrons to be used and groomed into accepting the psychopath's agenda.[39]

Manipulation involves the psychopath creating a scenario of “psychopathic fiction” where positive information about themselves and negative disinformation about others will be created, where your role as a part of a network of pawns or patrons will be utilised and you will be groomed into accepting the psychopath's agenda. Once on to the confrontation stage, the psychopath will use techniques of character assassination to maintain their agenda, and you will be either discarded as a pawn or used as a patron. Finally, in the ascension stage, the role of the subject as a patron in the psychopath’s quest for power will be discarded, and the psychopath will take for himself/herself a position of power and prestige from anyone who once supported them.

Trump is just a natural.

 

[Pin]

I agree with this.

I loathe fake news. You can't trust anything anymore. And when you don't know what's real, how are you supposed to make proper decisions? Fuck the post-truth society.

I trust public research universities and independent government agencies.

 

[acd]

In the US, I think we should focus more of education on finding reliable sources of information. I didn't learn about that until I started college. But it's clearly an issue in the US and should be taught much earlier.
Throw out any source that uses emotional language. There's a lot of garbage to sift through but neutral sources are out there and they are integral for maintaining democracy. AP and Reuters are good sources. I always check there. That's where everyone else gets the stories and then slants them their way. Without a free press we're done. So I don't buy the whole, it's all fake news! Stuff. It's not. But you have to be discerning.
Because we are also in the age of infotainment. But that doesn't mean the facts aren't out there.

 

[Pin]

In the US, I think we should focus more of education on finding reliable sources of information. I didn't learn about that until I started college. But it's clearly an issue in the US and should be taught much earlier.
Throw out any source that uses emotional language. There's a lot of garbage to sift through but neutral sources are out there and they are integral for maintaining democracy. AP and Reuters are good sources. I always check there. That's where everyone else gets the stories and then slants them their way. Without a free press we're done. So I don't buy the whole, it's all fake news! Stuff. It's not. But you have to be discerning.
Because we are also in the age of infotainment. But that doesn't mean the facts aren't out there.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Also, PBS is fantastic.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I just can't believe that people have forgotten how he wanted to invade Venezuela and buy Greenland, ad infinitum.

He's a fucking psychopath. The most diagnosable man on the planet, and somehow he's still an option. Jesus America wtf.

 

[Pin]

I just can't believe that people have forgotten how he wanted to invade Venezuela and buy Greenland, ad infinitum.

He's a fucking psychopath. The most diagnosable man on the planet, and somehow he's still an option. Jesus America wtf.

People forget that he tried to ban muslims from entering the United States.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

People forget that he tried to ban muslims from entering the United States.

Or betray state secrets to the fucking Russian Foreign Minister. He's treasonous.

We could go on all day, brother!

 

[Wyote]

I just can't believe that people have forgotten how he wanted to invade Venezuela and buy Greenland, ad infinitum.

He's a fucking psychopath. The most diagnosable man on the planet, and somehow he's still an option. Jesus America wtf.

Yea but let's argue about racism

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Yea but let's argue about racism

Lol, right, exactly. Honestly it does seem like a distraction.

People are picking up on an ambiguous statement he made, and it seems to be deflecting attention from all the outrageously hateful shit he actually said, which would prove him to be an unfit person to hold the office.