The French and Infidelity

Some thoughts - not really in response to any particular comment but arising from them all.
  • If you love someone that means you would move heaven and earth for their well-being. It is focused on them not on you - over and again I see the word 'love' used by folks when what they really are talking about is their own self-focused desires not the well being of another. This is a perversion - of the word - in my books.
  • The Christian concept of sin is badly distorted by the way people have been exposed to it. It's not an arbitrary set of rules designed to forbid pleasure, but a way of helping people not to hurt themselves and others badly. Sin does untold inner or outer damage - sometimes it's obvious, but often it isn't at first. It's like drugs or alcohol that give a kick at first if misused but may slowly trash your physical, mental or spiritual health. Of course the damage is not just in this world but to your destiny in the next world too - Christian morality certainly only makes 100% sense to people who expect their destiny to continue beyond this life, but it still makes a lot of sense if you don't believe that.
  • Infidelity, like love, can cover a multitude of different contexts and meanings. It's just life if your boyfriend or girlfriend of a few weeks decides there is a better bet elsewhere - lick your wounds and move on.
  • But if someone cheats when they have a dependent partner and family of young children, then that's a different matter - I have spend 3/4 of my life helping someone heal from their parents' breakup when they were a child. The damage from that sort of infidelity can be transmitted down the generations, literally. I have no words to express strongly enough how I feel about a parent who for the sake of their own self-indulgence visits that damage on their partner and, more particularly, their children.
  • It isn't that simple though, is it? People in a relationship can behave in complex and destructive ways, and the kind of love I described can only work if it's two-way. How many unfaithful people are actually escaping from a relationship that has failed in all but name? Some infidelity is pure self-indulgence, but it may be that someone is trying to escape a deteriorating situation they are increasingly unable to live with. It's a moot point who is unfaithful then - there is an argument that says the initial dishonesty comes from the partner who has damaged the relationship from the inside first, and that the other partner's manifest infidelity with another person is really only a response to that.
  • Just one more thought - to be unfaithful to someone says it all really - the very way the question is posed answers itself. If you are unfaithful and use this term to describe the situation, you have condemned yourself out of your own mouth. The term doesn't just refer to cheating on your sexual partner - if you cheat on your business partner by stealing from the business, or diverting clients to the new company you have set up in secret, then you are unfaithful and you are a scumbag ;). It isn't the right term to use if you and your partner are in an open relationship where you have both agreed to give each other the liberty to have affairs.
 
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Ren said:
The dishonesty is certainly hurtful but the image of a partner copulating wildly with someone else is also pretty messed up!
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I absolutely agree.

But, hear me out. I'd rather have my significant other first come to me and be like, "Hey, I'm attracted to this person, and I want to sleep with them." So then we can talk things through first.

At least then I have some idea in advance and if we can't work through our issues, I can find a way to let go emotionally and move on.



The pain would be so much more intense if I was emotionally attached and it had been done without my prior knowledge. Being lied to is the worst. Cheaters usually don't have what it takes to be honest though.

Don't get me wrong, I won't be with someone who wants to cheat/does cheat. It's a horrible image, yes. ...painful.

I guess I'd just have more respect for someone if they were honest first.
 
Wyote said:
Would people still enjoy sinning if they fully understood how it negatively affected their life
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Is enjoyment itself a sin
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As someone who does subscribe to the idea of "sin", I also don't think enjoyment is a sin. We are hard wired to seek out pleasure and I think we were created for that.

And a long term, committed, loving, trusting relationship is one pleasure I rather not mess up.

I don't think the pleasure of physical sex can compare to the pleasure of true love. Empty sex is like having too much candy. It never fills you up and eventually leaves you nauseous (until that feeling wears off and you want that candy again).

Infidelity, whatever feelings are there, it's always tainted, because you are hurting someone you gave your word to in the process. I don't see how that will provide any lasting pleasure in the long run. (Unless someone is totally desensitized. And then I think they need help.)

Probably going off topic here.
But I could go on and on about "enjoyment" and "pleasure"...:). Don't worry. Gonna spare you all and stop here.
 
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John K said:
Some thoughts - not really in response to any particular comment but arising from them all.
  • If you love someone that means you would move heaven and earth for their well-being. It is focused on them not on you - over and again I see the word 'love' used by folks when what they really are talking about is their own self-focused desires not the well being of another. This is a perversion - of the word - in my books.
  • The Christian concept of sin is badly distorted by the way people have been exposed to it. It's not an arbitrary set of rules designed to forbid pleasure, but a way of helping people not to hurt themselves and others badly. Sin does untold inner or outer damage - sometimes it's obvious, but often it isn't at first. It's like drugs or alcohol that give a kick at first if misused but may slowly trash your physical, mental or spiritual health. Of course the damage is not just in this world but to your destiny in the next world too - Christian morality certainly only makes 100% sense to people who expect their destiny to continue beyond this life, but it still makes a lot of sense if you don't believe that.
  • Infidelity, like love, can cover a multitude of different contexts and meanings. It's just life if your boyfriend or girlfriend of a few weeks decides there is a better bet elsewhere - lick your wounds and move on.
  • But if someone cheats when they have a dependent partner and family of young children, then that's a different matter - I have spend 3/4 of my life helping someone heal from their parents' breakup when they were a child. The damage from that sort of infidelity can be transmitted down the generations, literally. I have no words to express strongly enough how I feel about a parent who for the sake of their own self-indulgence visits that damage on their partner and, more particularly, their children.
  • It isn't that simple though, is it? People in a relationship can behave in complex and destructive ways, and the kind of love I described can only work if it's two-way. How many unfaithful people are actually escaping from a relationship that has failed in all but name? Some infidelity is pure self-indulgence, but it may be that someone is trying to escape a deteriorating situation they are increasingly unable to live with. It's a moot point who is unfaithful then - there is an argument that says the initial dishonesty comes from the partner who has damaged the relationship from the inside first, and that the other partner's manifest infidelity with another person is really only a response to that.
  • Just one more thought - to be unfaithful to someone says it all really - the very way the question is posed answers itself. If you are unfaithful and use this term to describe the situation, you have condemned yourself out of your own mouth. The term doesn't just refer to cheating on your sexual partner - if you cheat on your business partner by stealing from the business, or diverting clients to the new company you have set up in secret, then you are unfaithful and you are a scumbag ;). It isn't the right term to use if you and your partner are in an open relationship where you have both agreed to give each other the liberty to have affairs.
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Wow. Couldn't agree more with everything you said, John.
 
Ren said:
Yeah I think they would. We're talking about people who enjoy perversions of all kinds here. I think they know what they're doing.

Enjoyment itself isn't a sin in my view, because I don't subscribe to this whole idea of 'sin' :p
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Oh ok Mr. Answer Man

I suppose you're right, it's the act of engaging in perversions itself that is enticing so probably their line for what a perversion is would change, given more information.
But not the enjoyment.
 
Aaron Thyne said:
In a book called The Culture Code, the author Clotaire Rapaille explained that the French don't obsess over infidelity like Americans.

According to Rapaille, this obsession America has with cheating and infidelity is not universal. Some cultures don't fuss over it nearly as much as we do. The reason, apparently, is that these other cultures are much much older than Americas. And so they have already figured out how to deal with the natural proclivity to philander and play around.

Personally, I don't take infidelity too seriously. If I'm cheated on, I'll talk about it and them move on. It's really not something I get angry or emotionally riled up about. But what do you guys think?
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I think it makes sense given the history. Although Americans fought for the separation of church and state, we still ended up being more religious than our European friends. Many people in Europe were upset with the government (and therefore the church as well, since they were linked) , so I think de-coupling them in America helped the church maintain it's "purity" in a way.

I'm not religious, personally, but i think of a monogamous relationship as a commitment. I don't have a problem with casually dating more than one person as long as everyone is fully aware. You'd be surprised how reasonable people can be when you're just honest. But if I and a woman decide to be in a serious committed relationship, cheating would be a breach of trust for me. In the back of my mind, I would think, "if they're willing to do that, what else are the capable of doing? Is this someone I really want to share a bank account with? Have kids with?"

The thing is, we all have the urge every once in a while. What would be an interesting development is if the human species evolved to the point where people in relationships would occasionally have sex with other people, and it would be considered totally normal. You'd view your relationship/marriage as the ultimate partnership (sharing of living space, finances, children, etc.), but it wouldn't be tied to monogamous sex as it is now. Unfortunately I don't see this happening on a grand scale any time soon, because someone in the relationship will usually catch feelings.
 
I'm so cynical now.

After experiencing and reading research on adultery, cheating, divorce, break-ups, I've kind of just accepted now that romantic relationships are probably not going to last for life.

It doesn't matter how rich, good-looking, intelligent, or powerful you are with respect to human nature.

Men and women don't stay satisfied with what they've got.
 
Pin said:
Men and women don't stay satisfied with what they've got.
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Thing is, often the people that come to this belief are the ones that gave their all only to be shit on. The only ones that aren't satisfied with what they have are the ones who can never be satisfied in the first place, they're only temporarily infatuated. It wasn't deeper than that. It blows my mind why people can't just stick to their own "infatuated only" kind. Feel free to flirt, get your rocks off, play your multi-lover games, and move onto another sure, just leave the ones that are looking for a committed relationship alone. Or just you know...croak, if the temptation to mentally dismantle someone in selfish quest for self worth is too much to bear.
 
CaitlinRae2192 said:
Thing is, often the people that come to this belief are the ones that gave their all only to be shit on. The only ones that aren't satisfied with what they have are the ones who can never be satisfied in the first place, they're only temporarily infatuated. It wasn't deeper than that. It blows my mind why people can't just stick to their own "infatuated only" kind. Feel free to flirt, get your rocks off, play your multi-lover games, and move onto another sure, just leave the ones that are looking for a committed relationship alone. Or just you know...croak, if the temptation to mentally dismantle someone in selfish quest for self worth is too much to bear.
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I had the same thought today in response to that Will Smith thread: it would be much easier on everyone if the cheaters just stuck together and left the non-cheaters alone.
 
BritNi said:
What do you mean by obsess?
Like, we obsess that it will happen to us? That we will do it? Or we obsess over it once it has been done to us?

I'm just not understanding what you're meaning by Americans obsess over infidelity.

I think infidelity is something to be hurt over. I don't think it's the act nearly as much as the dishonesty factor, though.

Every relationship is different. The spectrum of emotions within relationships vary from one to the next. It seems unfair to compare one country to another when really, it's such a personal thing, in my opinion.
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Americans write song after song about it. Celebrities talk about it like its the biggest f'ing deal in the world. Almost every film directed at teens has an element of "infidelity" in it. Reality television shows make it the epicenter of everything "tragic". When I think of American pop culture, I think: violence, sex and infidelity. THIS is what I mean by obsession.
 
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