The INFj: Genius or Giftedness . . .

Jacobi said:
Those experiences are very familiar to me. For most of my life there's been this sort of Deja Vu thing going on. I feel like I know what's going to happen, but it comes out of nowhere so I usually can't react fast enough to see the next step before it occurs. It sounds really weird and I very rarely talk about it. There's no way to measure the data so I always just put it down to noticing patterns or my subconscious planning ahead.
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Example, please? This stuff interests me.
 
niffer said:
Example, please? This stuff interests me.
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It's difficult to explain. We'll say I'm walking down the street and my friend is just around the corner. There's a sudden familiarity, it feels as though I know exactly what'll happen next but before I can access this information, I learn it by meeting my friend. I usually only have a second or so to discover what's going to happen, but before I do I find out by other means.

There have been a few rare times where I believed I foresaw an event, but I can't be entirely sure. I may just be crazy or brain damaged.
 
Jacobi said:
It's difficult to explain. We'll say I'm walking down the street and my friend is just around the corner. There's a sudden familiarity, it feels as though I know exactly what'll happen next but before I can access this information, I learn it by meeting my friend. I usually only have a second or so to discover what's going to happen, but before I do I find out by other means.

There have been a few rare times where I believed I foresaw an event, but I can't be entirely sure. I may just be crazy or brain damaged.
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That is exactly how it feels...it’s just as described....as if you had a sixth sense that give you information before the other senses and your mind truly grasp what is happening. I think this is why it has helped my with surgery...because some of it can be incredibly fast...a lot of it is muscle memory type action...anticipation is one thing, but this is different, it’s hard to describe...I find myself doing something before I really have a solid reason only to find a couple of seconds later that there is a solid reason. Frequently, I have woken up from sleep only to have it followed by a loud noise or the phone going off both of which would have woken me up...more often than something coincidental anyhow.
 
Glad to see this thread up and about but I think it's funny that I can't even respond to my own question because I'm not INFJ :D I've always been interested in the topic of giftedness because I think it's a far more inclusive and expansive term than smarts or intelligence. You can be gifted in any area in the known world. It's not limited to academics or book smarts which is why I've always preferred this term to other terms which seem to place more focus on separating people into categories based on degree rather than ability in one or many areas. You may not be great at math, but yet be a gifted writer. I am not even a fan of the word genius because it makes us give a segment of the population labeled "genius" a greater sense of importance than everyone else. Or maybe I'm just jealous I've never been labeled a genius, lol.
 
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Jacobi said:
It's difficult to explain. We'll say I'm walking down the street and my friend is just around the corner. There's a sudden familiarity, it feels as though I know exactly what'll happen next but before I can access this information, I learn it by meeting my friend. I usually only have a second or so to discover what's going to happen, but before I do I find out by other means.

There have been a few rare times where I believed I foresaw an event, but I can't be entirely sure. I may just be crazy or brain damaged.
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I get that too.

One really funny example when I was playing AA, I was having a match against my clan leader (who was really, really good) and I was about to toss out a smoke grenade to fake him out because I couldn't find him because we were playing mind games. I was going to actually throw the smoke elsewhere, far away to trick him into checking it out, but when I had it in hand, I suddenly KNEW he would come through this hole on the rooftop across the street from the balcony I was on. And I knew to throw the smoke grenade at him, right at his face, even though it would give me away and do absolutely nothing for me, they're harmless.

Sure enough he pops through that hole. So I threw it right at him and it startles him and he ran away, thinking it was a lethal grenade. If I hadn't reacted that way, I (my character) would have likely been shot by him trying to switch to my gun. We all laughed about it in Vent because the whole clan saw it and thought it was hilarious.
 
Skarekrow said:
Remember that thread: Giftedness never translating into social attractiveness?
Anyhow, a very similar subject, but in the thread I got a response with a very cool pamphlet that was put out by the Swiss Association for Gifted Children.GIFTED CHILDREN:FROM MYTH TO REALITY The myth: a young genius, with an encyclopedic knowledge of everything, studious, quickwitted, always ready to show off at school...
The reality is in fact a terrible misunderstanding: children with an IQ above average(between 100 and 125/130) are active, attractive, with good verbal abilities. They learn toread and write easily around the age of 7 and are sometimes even often deemed “gifted” bytheir teachers while they are just good students, dedicated and sociable. Often, one assumesthat intellectual efficiency automatically leads to good academic results.
In fact, the gifted child (IQ between 125/130 and 160) is often a difficult child who hasfaced integration problems at school very early in life.
At school, she usually tries to avoid being noticed for fear of being perceived as too bright.Aware of being different, she tries to hide it by sometimes making mistakes on purpose.
She does not like to learn anything by heart, and lacks method or organizational skills,however, she can talk forever about subjects she is passionate about and often changes herfocus of interest. Her motor skills are usually not in line with her intellectual development;calligraphy is a problem, so are sportive or manual activities. Her school results are far fromsatisfactory. Her school reports say “could do better”.
Her teachers might consider her lazy, agitated, disturbing or a “daydreamer”.





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The child often finds it difficult to live with this difference, even more so when it is ignored,denied or rejected.
When the child’s gift is recognized, some teachers tend to say that the child does not needextra help since she is so bright, or, that “since she is so bright, she should adapt to the levelof the others”.
However, this is like asking a child with a normal level of intelligence to spend all her schoolyears in a class for intellectually challenged children and to adapt to their level.
Only clear and detailed information can rectify this misunderstanding.
It is horrible for a child to be considered to be what she is not, to not be recognized forwhat she is. Therefore, after you finish reading the following and if you have some suspicionsabout a child, we highly recommend you meet with the parents and suggest they consult anexperienced educational psychologist for psychological tests.
The earlier a gifted child is identified, recognized and accepted by her parents, teachers andfriends, the more she will bloom, be comfortable with who she is and with the way the othersperceive her, and the more likely she will be to lead a happy life both socially, emotionally andin her academic or professional pursuits.




Anyhow, I found this to be a very interesting booklet...there is more after what I copied and pasted above if you go here: http://www.asep-suisse.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=47&ItemId=83
There used to be a page with it up, but now you have to download the PDF.
I can relate to a lot of the information in the booklet from my own childhood and educational experiences and I wish this existed for my teachers at the time.
They had such a hard time with me as a child that I was sent to UCLA to be evaluated and low and behold I was smarter than your average bear by a good stretch.
It wasn’t that I didn’t know how to do the work...I was just ready to move on to the next thing after learning it...I didn’t need the repetition and to practice like most of the kids did. When I would get a sheet of 20 math problems I would do the first 5 and be done...in my mind I had proven that I understood it (they were all right) and that should be enough...the repetition drove me nuts. I still to this day have difficulty learning by repetition...if I am paying attention to something then it sticks.
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This is really good reading and so true. I was lucky enough to have one teacher that allowed me to be myself. As long as I aced the tests, I could sleep in class, look out the windows, and not do my homework. He actually asked the class why they couldn't be more like me one day(that was a little overboard, but he made his point after slamming his hand on my desk to awaken me). I went back to sleep. One teacher! Another failed me with a high B for skipping her class all the time. I liked her, but her take on a poem slammed God to me one day. I lost interest in what she had to say after insinuating God was a fool....................................................Finding somewhere in life to be is more challenging to some it should be easier for. For me? I hid it most of the time and have become accustomed to acting somewhat normal. The down side is I just had surgery and had I went to college and applied myself, no telling if I might have been performing surgery like my Uncle wanted me to do, to be, and to live. Reality sinks in to young children at such early ages. We know what is affordable and what is not. We know when we are needed doing something else, no matter what the parents say. I will be bold and say we are living in a façade when we do these things. We are not living up to our own potential to better our environment, whether near or far. I have said entirely too much. Think I'll crawl under a rock and be forgotten.
 
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just me said:
This is really good reading and so true. I was lucky enough to have one teacher that allowed me to be myself. As long as I aced the tests, I could sleep in class, look out the windows, and not do my homework. He actually asked the class why they couldn't be more like me one day(that was a little overboard, but he made his point after slamming his hand on my desk to awaken me). I went back to sleep. One teacher! Another failed me with a high B for skipping her class all the time. I liked her, but her take on a poem slammed God to me one day. I lost interest in what she had to say after insinuating God was a fool....................................................Finding somewhere in life to be is more challenging to some it should be easier for. For me? I hid it most of the time and have become accustomed to acting somewhat normal. The down side is I just had surgery and had I went to college and applied myself, no telling if I might have been performing surgery like my Uncle wanted me to do, to be, and to live. Reality sinks in to young children at such early ages. We know what is affordable and what is not. We know when we are needed doing something else, no matter what the parents say. I will be bold and say we are living in a façade when we do these things. We are not living up to our own potential to better our environment, whether near or far. I have said entirely too much. Think I'll crawl under a rock and be forgotten.
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Don’t crawl under anything...I think there are more who can relate to your story here than those who cannot.
I had a few really good teachers over the years who really pushed me, inspired me, encouraged me...but I can count them on one hand...and then not all the way to my little finger...lol.
Actually, my Senior year of HS I went to my guidance counselor and made up the BS story of having insomnia and not being able to stay awake at school so I could go on Independent Study where you only show up on Monday for two hours...take your tests, get your work for the week and that’s it...it was fantastic, especially for someone who is introverted. My Independent study teacher was one of my favorite...he would let me read whatever books I wanted for my English reading requirements, so I would read Sci-fi stuff or whatever...but he really challenged me to think outside of the box.
I actually started going to Culinary school after HS, but only did the first year after I realized how it killed the creativity that I really loved about cooking.
I would have never gotten into the medical field if my Mom had not been a Paramedic and helped me get a job running the wheelchair transport...I did that for a while, then became an EMT myself...did that for a bit, then joined the Coast Guard with a contract that stated I would go to Medic school, and the deal was, they take the top ten percent and send them to Duke to get their PA license...well, they couldn’t hold up to the bargain, so I left after two years....too many people on the waiting list.
Anyhow, I became a Paramedic and did that for another two years, then worked in an ER for two years....long story short....I went back to school and trained for what I do now and have been doing that for 10 years or so...I got lucky I think more than anything when I discovered I was really passionate about medicine. I would have been totally lost otherwise. Don’t beat yourself up.
 
I've always been considered a gifted student, and most of my peers constantly point out that I am smart, even when I'm not exactly sure what I did to make them think that. For a while, I thought they were just going off my grades and their preconceptions about me, but then people sometimes told me I was really smart after just meeting me. But I still wasn't exactly sure why.

I am a weird mix of humble and honest with myself about my own intellectual talents. In no way do I believe they make me better than anyone else, and I never think of only intelligence when considering the company I like to keep. Actually, I don't really think about who I want to affiliate myself with...I just hang around anyone who happens to be there, and I treat everyone with the same amount of openness and respect. I have learned not to be ashamed or in denial about my intelligence, however, because for me self-doubt leads to issues with perfectionism and anxiety, and those send me down a very bad road. I have struggled with people close to me teasing me or putting me down for being intelligent, which made me feel as though I needed to hide it...but I never really could. I wasn't going to get bad grades on purpose or avoid outlets of creative expression (art, writing, music, etc.) just because other people felt insecure. So I learned to embrace my own talents and abilities, to be open and grateful of praise, and to watch out for people who tried to make me feel bad about myself because of their own insecurities. But I never judged others or thought my abilities made me better in any way. And I know there are many others who are better at certain things than I am.
 
my teachers in my undergraduate program told me im clearly gifted, obviously talented. at work i run rings around everyone, i achieve things in a day that they dont achieve in a year. im some sort of freak, and it doesnt mean a damn shit. i work in a shop and im still stuck in this dump of a life. i dont qualify for mensa and people frequently see me as an idiot. so what.
 
I'm 'gifted' in the way that I pick up on things very quickly. People will make comments when they teach me something like 'Jeez, you learned that fast' and it's usually in a envious or bitchy tone so I down play it and try my best to reassure them I didn't learn it that fast. Before I knew that I actually do learn things really quickly, and most people would not have learned whatever at that speed, I'd compare myself to whomever was teaching me in a way of 'Oh I'm sure you learned just as fast' and they'd get more bitchy and tell me that they didn't; that it took them weeks to learn. It's not a fun thing. People don't learn as quickly as I do and it's always something I have to realize and remember constantly because when they comment on it it's not in the form of a compliment, it's in an angry envious tone :/
 
invisible said:
i dont qualify for mensa and people frequently see me as an idiot. so what.
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don't think this is true. Take the MAT (Miller's Analogy Test) and you're likely to get in. This test is tailored to someone with humanities and literature as their strength.
 
Infjs have "the think" in them...
 
The degree to which the double edged gift is potentially perilous to the wielder largely depends on its sharpness.

Intensity of experience of the internal and the external goes hand in hand with the capacity to succinctly discern.

The extent to which someone can simulate your cognitive vistas limits the extent to which they can accurately comprehend you. Those who cannot understand that 1+1 = 2 cannot somewhat accurately simulate a vista which includes that understanding.

Normally occurring socially healthy relations and interpersonal feelings can easily simply not manifest depending on who the person encounters in life, with reduced possibility for encountering the appropriate people for this. Alienation.
 
latte said:
The degree to which the double edged gift is potentially perilous to the wielder largely depends on its sharpness.

Intensity of experience of the internal and the external goes hand in hand with the capacity to succinctly discern.

The extent to which someone can simulate your cognitive vistas limits the extent to which they can accurately comprehend you. Those who cannot understand that 1+1 = 2 cannot somewhat accurately simulate a vista which includes that understanding.

Normally occurring socially healthy relations and interpersonal feelings can easily simply not manifest depending on who the person encounters in life, with reduced possibility for encountering the appropriate people for this. Alienation.
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Just to dumb it down a little, are you putting to us that our ability to understand situations and people quickly and intuitively depends on the volume of life experience that we have devoted our attention to? And if we don't encounter a lot of different people and a lot of different situations then the first time we do encounter it will be alienating and a bit of a mess until we get it/them?
 
casie said:
Just to dumb it down a little, are you putting to us that our ability to understand situations and people quickly and intuitively depends on the volume of life experience that we have devoted our attention to? And if we don't encounter a lot of different people and a lot of different situations then the first time we do encounter it will be alienating and a bit of a mess until we get it/them?
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That wasn't what I was trying to say. I don't think it is necessarily alienating or a mess for a gifted (or other) INFJ to meet a very new type of person. It can even be a soulmelding experience, depending on the person. It can certainly be true in most cases though.

Hmm. What I meant so convey was that there are necessarily less people that gifted people can strongly relate to and feel understood by ( especially in their "formative years" before they become broader individuals), because their thoughts, internal vistas and sometimes concerns are often too "complex" for most people to understand. This can easily lead to not having the circumstance and stimulus that would lead to developing feelings that tend to develop when one does feel understood and one does relate and feel similar and close kinship with people close to oneself and around oneself.
 
casie said:
Just to dumb it down a little, are you putting to us that our ability to understand situations and people quickly and intuitively depends on the volume of life experience that we have devoted our attention to? And if we don't encounter a lot of different people and a lot of different situations then the first time we do encounter it will be alienating and a bit of a mess until we get it/them?
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Actually I think this sums it up nicely

The definition of weird is anything your not used to. The more different people you come across the less types of people will seem weird to you
 
latte said:
That wasn't what I was trying to say. I don't think it is necessarily alienating or a mess for a gifted (or other) INFJ to meet a very new type of person. It can even be a soulmelding experience, depending on the person. It can certainly be true in most cases though.

Hmm. What I meant so convey was that there are necessarily less people that gifted people can strongly relate to and feel understood by ( especially in their "formative years" before they become broader individuals), because their thoughts, internal vistas and sometimes concerns are often too "complex" for most people to understand. This can easily lead to not having the circumstance and stimulus that would lead to developing feelings that tend to develop when one does feel understood and one does relate and feel similar and close kinship with people close to oneself and around oneself.
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Okay, thank you for explaining that further, I think I get it now. I think you are onto something there.
 
Gist said:
I'm interested in the nature of genius and giftedness in adults.

This is a question for all the INFj "gifted" adults or geniuses on the board (for those who choose to be honest about it) :m197::

For those who may be interested, like myself, in the experience of being a genius or being an extremely gifted adult in your own words, how do you demonstrate this everyday (if you do), how do you relate to others, or how do others relate to you, and how do you see yourself and relate to your own genius or giftedness.

I'm not assuming anything about what it means to be genius or gifted, but I'm interested in how each person understands their own experiences and relate to it individually separate from society's image and perception of this segment of the population.

Edit: I am not asking anyone to play up their smarts or giftedness. I am just interested in how you specifically understand it and it's value or relevance for you and how it may directly or indirectly affect your interaction with others because of it, whether you deny it or affirm it.
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I'm thinking in terms of creativity and ways of thinking and applying yourself. To me it has to do with being adaptive (e.g responsive and curious in relation to the environment) and I think it's also about facilitation. Just writing that has also reminded me about emotional intelligence and reading of situations and people. These things that INFJ's are good at, are to do with intelligence but they are not 'dry' but adaptive.

I remember wanting to hide things about myself from others at school because I didn't want to stand out too much for being gifted, even in the few things I stood apart in. On the other hand although I don't like attention I love performing. I think that's because its to do with the externalising emotion and I love being expressive.

I definitely never particularly stood out as a top grade student, although I have excelled in things I've liked, when I've made the effort. However I was slow to learn literacy in primary school and so I had the idea I wasn't very bright, or at least perhaps inferior or different to others at that age. However as soon as I learnt to read I could not put a book down, and I started my first journal aged 9.

I like thinking in terms of concepts and ideas. I'm good with languages, like to write creatively, play an instrument and am adept at other creative things. I could apply myself to things quite easily, whether scientific or creative. (I'm not very good at Maths but I think it's important to decide that even harder subjects can be learnt, the brain can get over a hurdle if the driver is confident)!
I think that curiosity has an important part to play in learning. Someone else mentioned being aware of the gaps in their and others thinking and knowledge etc. which is important because innovation is also about always questioning, applying, trying to implement etc. Without a questioning mind this wouldn't happen a lot. The things that don't stimulate me remain unchartered territories in terms of learning. I do though have a lot of appetite to learn new stuff.
 
In relation to others, how others see me, I too relate to the feeling of being the odd one out, this can often be the case. For example in group discussion I sometimes get quite excited and agitated about some 'aha' moment, some idea that's popped into my head as I've joined the dots between ideas. In these moments people are sometimes a lot less enthralled, not quite getting where I'm at. However it's a lovely thing when it does turns out differently than that!
 
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