[PUG] The Left's Difficulty Accepting Election/Referendum Results

[Faye]

Of course I dont agree with practically everything in your post. But for the purpose of addressing mine I guess its simplest to say "physical" violence. Im not talking about PERCIEVED mental violence.

Also, I know you do not care about 'perceived mental violence', but psychological violence what you call 'perceived mental violence- is real and can really hurt someone. Vice president elect Mike Pence advocates for LGBTQ+ conversion therapy to make us straight and cisgender (not transgender) again. That sort of therapy is abusive and greatly increases our chance of suicide. I mean, how would you feel if you were forced to change your sexuality or your gender?

 

[Flavus Aquila]

...

Because this thread passes a personal judgement on me just for being who I am. You started it.

Read the OP.

Beam me up Scotty.

 

[Faye]

Lots of emotions, no logic and reason.
I agree with Trump on how protesters need to be dealt with when they get violent.

Lots of privilege. No empathy or compassion. Utter myopia.

Then you believe in totalitarianism. Maybe you should move to China.

 

[Faye]

Read the OP.

Beam me up Scotty.

Read it. What is your point?

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Read it. What is your point?

The OP wasn't making a point, it was a question.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Also, I know you do not care about 'perceived mental violence', but psychological violence what you call 'perceived mental violence- is real and can really hurt someone. Vice president elect Mike Pence advocates for LGBTQ+ conversion therapy to make us straight and cisgender (not transgender) again. That sort of therapy is abusive and greatly increases our chance of suicide. I mean, how would you feel if you were forced to change your sexuality or your gender?

So you disagree with his views. Can I call you a bigot now?

Seriously though theres a lot about Trump and Pence I dont agree with. I fail to see how violence in the streets is an accepted way of communicating ...anything honestly. Also its not funny that liberals demonize and decry violence of people trying to protect Americans and then in turn advocate violence so long as its done (only by them) in a non-lawful way. I not only dont but cant take them seriously when that happens.

Liberals dont like police brutality and I understand why. They fall under the brunt of it because they are responsible for most of the non-lawful behavior. Now you might think I am some advocate for having alot of laws. Im not. But I certainly am an advocate for the laws that keep people safe.

 

[Faye]

The OP wasn't making a point, it was a question.

Yes, it was. It was a complex question, which does make a point. It presupposes that we are not gracefully accepting the results of the election. I would consider our reaction thus far to be very graceful considering what is at stake.

 

[Faye]

So you disagree with his views. Can I call you a bigot now?

Seriously though theres a lot about Trump and Pence I dont agree with. I fail to see how violence in the streets is an accepted way of communicating ...anything honestly. Also its not funny that liberals demonize and decry violence of people trying to protect Americans and then in turn advocate violence so long as its done (only by them) in a non-lawful way. I not only dont but cant take them seriously when that happens.

Liberals dont like police brutality and I understand why. They fall under the brunt of it because they are responsible for most of the non-lawful behavior. Now you might think I am some advocate for having alot of laws. Im not. But I certainly am an advocate for the laws that keep people safe.

No, I am fine with others who have differing opinions. Please read the definition of 'bigot'. Disagreement is not the same as intolerance.

I am not defending the protesters in Portland turning violent (the only place that did as far as I am aware). What they did was completely unacceptable, and it is tangential to the topic of this thread. Painting everyone who is unhappy with Trump as a violent protester is generalizing.

Liberals do not like police brutality because it is overwhelming targeted at black people. I am a fan of laws too and specifically the rule of law, which means that police officers should be subject to the laws we have instead of being allowed to murder black men with impunity.

 

[Eventhorizon]

No, I am fine with others who have differing opinions. Please read the definition of 'bigot'. Disagreement is not the same as intolerance.

I am not defending the protesters in Portland turning violent (the only place that did as far as I am aware). What they did was completely unacceptable, and it is tangential to the topic of this thread. Painting everyone who is unhappy with Trump as a violent protester is generalizing.

Liberals do not like police brutality because it is overwhelming targeted at black people. I am a fan of laws too and specifically the rule of law, which means that police officers should be subject to the laws we have instead of being allowed to murder black men with impunity.

I was going to like your post until you said police are "targeting" black people. There are some bad police. There are bad people in all sorts of jobs its just that police have this power that the common people dont. I understand where the fear comes from. But the vast majority of police are only targeting those that break the law. I have repeatedly said we need to make sure every police officer wears a camera and there needs to be physiological examinations as often as needed but at least once a year for people who are currently officers and for those who want to become an officer. Once in place though, they all need raises. What a thankless crappy job.

 

[Faye]

I was going to like your post until you said police are "targeting" black people. There are some bad police. There are bad people in all sorts of jobs its just that police have this power that the common people dont. I understand where the fear comes from. But the vast majority of police are only targeting those that break the law. I have repeatedly said we need to make sure every police officer wears a camera and there needs to be physiological examinations as often as needed but at least once a year for people who are currently officers and for those who want to become an officer. Once in place though, they all need raises. What a thankless crappy job.

I did not say that police are targeting black people. What I said was that police brutality is overwhelmingly targeted at black people. It is obviously only a minority of police officers that are the problem. Please do not put words in my mouth.

I agree with body cameras, psychotherapy, and pay raises by the way. Being a police officer definitely is difficult, and I do respect them for the difficult job that they do.

 

[CindyLou]

They have a hard time because they believe the media tells them the truth. It is why they believed that they would win both times when they were lied to so they weren't prepared.

They also believed all the things they said about Mr. Trump and think he's some kind of crazy right-winger Hitler to the right of Ted Cruz when in reality he's the most socially liberal republican that I can remember in my lifetime. The republican party isn't the same party it was 15 years ago.

They are being completely irrational but that is because they believed a bunch of lies that we turned off a long time ago. They don't know that the MSM is dead yet.

 

[CindyLou]

I think it's because the left is partially made up of the most historically oppressed groups who fought so fiercely over time for their rights, i.e., gay marriage, and they fear it will be reversed by a leader they see as a lunatic. They are losing what makes their lives worth living. Waking up to find out that you are no longer legally married would be a little upsetting, no?

I assure you that will not happen. He is not opposed to gay marriage.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I did not say that police are targeting black people. What I said was that police brutality is overwhelmingly targeted at black people. It is obviously only a minority of police officers that are the problem. Please do not put words in my mouth.

I agree with body cameras, psychotherapy, and pay raises by the way. Being a police officer definitely is difficult, and I do respect them for the difficult job that they do.

....
Youve said the same thing or almost exactly the same thing. But thanks for clarifying.

 

[Stu]

I assure you that will not happen. He is not opposed to gay marriage.

Maybe not but when you appoint conservative " christian" federal judges and have both houses of congress controlled by conservatives and you are a pandering politician, what do you think is going to happen?

 

[CindyLou]

Maybe not but when you appoint conservative " christian" federal judges and have both houses of congress controlled by conservatives and you are a pandering politician, what do you think is going to happen?

I honestly don't think the person he picks will be as conservative as Scalia.

He's smart. He's outsmarted a lot of people right now. He's not going to appoint someone that is going to try and regulate Christian moral values at the national level, lol he's secular, he's not a Christian; it would cause tension and no one wants that except the the Never Trumpers on the right, but they lost. The republican party has changed, it now knows it has changed, knows what it did wrong- thanks to the left for the dose of its own medicine... it knows what it needs to be now to win elections and knows what its core wants.

At any rate and in any case, if the democrats continue what they're doing now you will continue to push more voters/states away. It won't work anymore. It's time for everyone to grow up. Try not calling everyone stupid racist white sexist rednecks that didn't vote how you wanted and you might win another election in my lifetime. Figure this out sooner and you might win in 8. Maybe 4. The bullying from the left has done nothing but divide people amongst themselves and push it's own states/voters away while it points the fingers at everyone else so it doesn't have to to come to terms with the fact that they have essentially became what they hated. The democrats are the old republicans. This is what they have become. That is why you had a few establishment supporting republicans moving left this election. I know. It's hard to accept. It's probably impossible to accept. I know that won't sink in because of all the projection I've seen at the macro level from the left, but that is exactly what happened.

If people actually watched some of his rallies from start to finish, read any of his books, find out what he's done with his 70 years on this planet besides what the media wants to point out, or find out what he actually said and not what the media said, not clips of his rallies that were distorted to make him appear like they wanted him to appear, everyone would calm the fuck down. He is secular. At what point will you guys realize you've been played by the media, played by your own party and the candidate they gave you, and played by yourselves by not allowing any honest discussion or critiques to happen in your spaces without name calling, shunning, silencing and temper tantrums? Hopefully after he gets into office. Maybe look at it this way: the democrats aren't always going to win elections, and this isn't even close to the end of the world scenario people think he is. If you are liberal he's going to be better at picking Scalia's replacement than someone like Romney!

 

[Stu]

 

[Asa]

First, calling Democrats left is a laugh. Democrats are the middle.

The right is just as graceless, obstructionist and weaselly, and you're either naive to believe they are not (thanks to your media sources) or you're denying it, or you're suffering from cognitive dissonance.

People who vote right are violent and difficult toward us every day - bullies, rapists, homophobes, racists, etc. I'm not saying you are any of those things, but this is the company people who voted Trump are keeping. These are the people who were empowered by this candidate who did not win the popular vote. I live in the middle of nowhere, so I have not seen the results of this election yet, but my friends keep reporting harassment - both verbal and physical - from people who say things like, "We won. There's nothing you can do about it."

So who is acting without grace? Who is being violent and threatening? - The Right.

We're not going to curl up in the fetal position and let our oppressors march over us.

The majority of the right, left and middle want a better world. We behave like we disagree about it more than we actually do.

A minority of people who vote right are a big problem, and do not want a better world for all. The left will stand up to them, and a minority of the left will do so loudly or violently. As a person on the left, who has either experienced or witnessed the violence I described from the minority right, I don't feel sorry for people who may be forced to eat what they repeatedly serve.

 

[JJJA]

I think it's because the left is partially made up of the most historically oppressed groups who fought so fiercely over time for their rights, i.e., gay marriage, and they fear it will be reversed by a leader they see as a lunatic. They are losing what makes their lives worth living. Waking up to find out that you are no longer legally married would be a little upsetting, no?

https://twitter.com/unspectateur/status/796731721026674689

 

[Stu]

 

[hush]

I would be devastated if the legalization of gay marriage were overturned, as people have voiced fears of happening. But, you know what? As others have also mentioned, Trump is actually one of the most socially liberal Republicans I've seen in a long while. If you hope to preserve rights for the LGBT+ community, just be glad Ted Cruz didn't beat Trump in the running for Republican candidate.



Because he has actually consistently and loudly opposes equal rights, including gay marriage. Sorry to bring you into this JJJA, but I thought you made a good post and a good point:

They already controlled the House and Senate, and considering Trump is moderately liberal on most social issues, I wouldn't be worried about an attempt to repeal gay marriage. I loved the Supreme Court's decision to approve of national gay marriage, and I doubt Trump's Conservatively picked justices would attempt to impede this because he emphasised the commitment to protect the Constitution through the interpretation of the Founding Fathers, and that means secular values above Christian values.

I am not Republican. I often even view many Democrats as being, ironically, socially conservative. We need to not look at our candidates based on their party, but rather, as individuals, and you can see a stark contrast, as individuals, between Cruz and Trump, with Cruz being extremely socially conservative. It has been less than 3 days since the election results were announced. Obama is still president and won't officially step down until January. People are reacting to unlikely possibilities that haven't even happened yet, nor likely will they. It wouldn't make sense for Trump to overturn the gay marriage ruling, unless he feels like shooting himself in the foot.

And Hillary's stances on these issues? That's hard to say, because she has flip-flopped on pretty much every single issue throughout the course of her political career. Her strategy is to essentially say whatever she needs to say to the crowd in front of her to ensure their vote, and then to say whatever she needs to say to the next crowd in front of her to ensure their vote, even if it's in direct contrast to crowd #1. She actually supported traditional marriage in 2004, and then flip-flopped 2 years later. She's what, 69? So when she was 57 she still hadn't made up her mind about gay rights? That's reassuring.

But none of that really matters now, because she isn't president. Trump is, and that is that. If he actually threatens to overturn gay marriage on a federal level? React to that, because the man's only been elected for a couple days, and he hasn't done so.