The Lure of Conspiracy.

[muir]

Wow, just wow.

Let's characterize the powerful as sadistic sociopaths without family or morals, then imply that the rest of the population are naive, unquestioning, thoughtless sheeple easily deceived and controlled.

You are trying to put words in my mouth.....its something i see a number of people do who haven't yet seen whats going on

I think it has something to do with the disconnect that you currently have from reality. It seems that what you are doing here is trying to twist reality to be how you want it to be instead of just looking at who has the most influence and then recognising that they are a cabal

here is a study by the Swiss Federal Institute that shows how a small number of corporations weild huge influence over the global economy: http://occupycorporatism.com/swiss-study-shows-147-technocratic-super-entities-rule-the-world/

That's the reality whether you want it to be the reality or not

Let's also refer to the concept of 'power' without any definition or explanation except that it is infinitely desirable and sought after like pixie-crack that would be used for magical purposes.

Once again you are putting words in my mouth!

There is an agenda among a cabal to centralise power; that is a reality whether you like it or not

The need for more money is like the all-time high score in life right? The end-all-be-all of existence? It's not like having more money than any one person could possibly spend in their entire lifetime encourages them to be money-grubbing scrooges who would sacrifice their own friends and family to acquire more so that they can take it all with them into the afterlife, right? Or that world dominance is the only possible explanation for any life goal or ambition?

You are trying to put words in my mouth again. Your time would be more productively spent, if you want to know whats going on, looking into who runs the federal reserve, who funds the politicians, who is behind various lobby groups and influential foundations and think tanks etc

If you do that you will learn more completely what is going on

Everybody wants to effect change in the world and shape ideals.

Not everyone is trying to create a centralised world government run by bankers

You assume too much. You assume people do not question or criticize the status quo or are completely unable to do so simply because they do not buy into your personal perspective. You assume influence is equal to absolute dominance. It is not and others are not.

Don't tell me what it is i do until you can see past the end of your own nose

I'm pretty patient in these sorts of discussions because i know how much effort has been put into pulling the wools over peoples eyes, but you are really wasting my time and your own if you aren't willing to look into who is running the system

Your characterizations of people are shambling, stereotypical caricatures of human beings that are useful for fiction or comedy. Everytime you mention these conspiricists I think of Dr. Evil from Austin Powers. It is complete and utter nonsense.

No you are trying to protray what i'm saying as a certain way without actually discussing any of it.

What you are doing is a very crude form of manipulation designed to paint my arguments in a bad light without actually dealing with any facts

I do not have a problem with facts, nor was I arguing against the facts. It is your interpretation, bias, and slant on what they mean that is ridiculous. You seem unable to so much as attribute 'good intentions' to these people.

If you have such a good relationship with the facts then why not tell me what 'these people' are trying to do and why?

Because i'd really love to know how those war mongering, murdering, theiving liars are the good guys in your perception of reality

And since you are going to imply that I have a childish perspective and am unable to question, critically think, or reason as an adult unless I agree with your perspective (a sleazy, underhanded statement that you should be ashamed of), I am finished speaking to you.

Lol after you tried to say i was like John nash from a 'Beauthiful mind'? Lol so its ok for you to try and suggest that i am a paranoid schizophrenic but when i point out to you that you are clinging to a false perception of reality much like the one people cling to when they perceive of santa as being real because it is a perfect analogy of how people can be lied to when enough people repeat the lie you get all indignant?

I think you just want to try and smear me without actually taking anytime to consider the facts....'shame' on you

 

[muir]

In a nut shell, adherence to overarching trans-national, tans-dimensional conspiracy theories pervert ones relationship to the collective mass of humanity.

In a worse case scenario the adherent may come to believe that his fellows are not really human and therefore can not be sinned against. (I say "him" because how many "hers" go on killing sprees?)


To those who are well adjusted in their social lives and are waging a secret war against the.......whatever...
let them know that weaker minds are apt to concretize these machinations and use them to justify extreme, antisocial behavior.

Here Sun Tzu's fifty seventh axiom holds tremendous meaning.

What you are doing here is self policing

Because you would shut down any dialogue about who is really controlling things and what they are trying to achieve you stop people being able to get to grips with reality

You are really helping the cabal achieve its ends

An analogy would be for someone in nazi germany to tell people to be quiet about the nazi take over of their government because talking about it might incite some form of resistance!

 

[muir]

The ironic thing is, you're the one who is acting childish. You have a loose assemblage of facts that you have brought together into a distinct interpretation, but it is not a fact, in and of itself. Nothing about the evidence you bring forth suggests strictly an Illuminati conspiracy, not alone, and not presented together. It's all subjective interpretation.

Its all there but only you can acknowledge it. If you want to continue to believe that santa is real there is nothing anyone can do to convince you otherwise

But you're treating it like fact. Like your perspective is the only possible right one and that anyone who disagrees with you either A) just doesn't understand this information as well as you do and needs to be taught, or B) is incapable of understanding this information as well as you do and cannot be taught. Which is a wholly childish and self-centered worldview.

No the gnostics said that some people are not able to grasp it, but i don't beleive that; i think we have all been in Plato's cave but some of us have been able to step outside and we then need to go back and help others out of their perceptual bonds because the harsh reality is that all of our fates are tied together

We stand or fall together

In my opinion, your metaphor is quite off-the-mark. You're not the one being skeptical, you're the one making a positive claim. It's more like we're all children on the playground, and you're asserting Santa is real because "who else leaves presents under the tree" and "who else eats all the cookies I leave out" and we're telling you "well, it could be your parents."

No its the other way around. I know this because I have seen santa without his mask

There will come a time where you will see santa without his mask as well

Its like i go into a cave and you live in there and are chained up in there and have never been outside it. You have only a version of reality that has been given to you by the person who brings your food everyday. I try telling you about the sky and the sun and the moon because i have seen them and that i was once stuck in the cave as well but i now KNOW there is more than what is in the immediate environment and you just angrily argue that i am lying about what i've seen

But i know that you will see a new perception of reality at some point in the future because the roof of the cave is collapsing and the sky will be revealed

 

[Stu]

You are really helping the cabal achieve its ends

thank god you're back, I thought Santa had taken you.

 

[Cornerstone]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] - what do you reckon of the way George Carlin put it?

[video=youtube;VAFd4FdbJxs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAFd4FdbJxs[/video]

Also this one:
http://youtu.be/bO0-u900OG4

I would tend to agree more with the first one because I do believe that even amongst the elites there is a great deal of incompetence and greater loyalty to egos fuelled by economic gain than any agenda. I do struggle with the idea of Illuminati etc because I struggle to see how the ones who have evolved past such things are still so concerned with having great influence over the planet...if they have the kind of connection to spiritual realms and esoteric knowledge. Is there meant to be some value in keeping others down? I mean, I don't understand why the esoteric side of things would happen at all. Is it just that people maybe underestimate and undervalue the kind of forces they are playing with like the child who plays with ouiji boards in a horror film, for example?

Also, do you believe that there is truth in the esoteric side of things or do you just acknowledge that there is experimentation in that area?

My friend put it well when we were discussing things. He called this period a 'watershed moment' for humanity and I agree. Admittedly that is pretty much all he said, he summed up my lengthy rant :lol: but I think that was a good way to put it.

 

[muir]

Given the season, maybe it is improper to be questioning each other's belief in Santa. I do not fault @muir for wanting to believe in what he wishes, but I certainly will never be able to agree with it. It is undeniable that people have conspired in part or in full throughout history, so it's understandable to want to uncover such activities.

I think @muir simply wants to find others who shares his beliefs more than wanting to convince others of such. Conviction would require more evidence than is available, but he doesn't believe so and I don't think it possible or even prudent to attempt to convince him. I suppose it might be a fulfilling endeavor to believe in and want to expose his conspiracy.

The part i've highlighted is very telling

You have already decided in your mind what reality is. For that reason you are not open to other possibilities and are therefore trapped in a perceptual prison, much like a child that won't let go of the santa claus myth because they have invested too much into it

 

[Cornerstone]

like a child that won't let go of the santa claus myth because they have invested too much into it

There was a kid at my school who did that. I think he's probably over it by now but he really was having a hard time taking the news.

Like, old though. Probably 10 or 11.

 

[Stu]

you two better shut up, the naughty list is real

 

[muir]

@muir - what do you reckon of the way George Carlin put it?

He puts a different level of emphasis in each post

He knows how the perceptual war is being fought. he also knows that there are many people still under the spell. I use the word 'spell' not as a metaphor but to mean a psychic grip over other human beings. 'Magicians' and i mean REAL magicians not these entertainers who get up on stages and pull rabbits from hats.....thats stage magic.....i'm talking about real magick here....people who have a strong understanding of the workings of the human psyche and are able to work with that to produce results

People who have an understanding can use it many ways. For example there are people on this forum advising others about emotional issues because they have gained a grasp of things on that level either from experience or intuitively; they then share the insight to try and produce a result. So one use of magick is for benefitting or healing people; this is what shamens have always done

Another use of magick would be to trick people. So an example would be a very slick salesman who convinces a senile old lady that she needs to spend money on some expensive safety features for her house otherwise her family might not be safe when they come to stay with her.......he might play on her emotions to prey on her finances....that's black magick

A lying politician, a manipulative lawyer, a banker selling a tracker mortage to someone when they know the interest rates are due to rise and then packaging that mortgage into a ticking time bomb derivative and selling it on to someone else as fast as he can.....all black magick

There are understandings of human psychology that go back to the beginnings of our species. Most communication is not even through words but through body language. A monkey strutting around with its chest puffed out to make itself look strong to rivals, a neolithic man making an elaborate necklace to seem of higher status to perspective mates etc

Look at the pageantry of kings and queens....it is all done for a reason. It is designed to make the casual observor view the king or queen as something so alien in its seeming superiority as to appear like a god; the aim being to cow the person into submission so that they obey the dictates of crown

Well all these mind games people have been playing have got more and more documented and perhaops more sophisticated with the creating of fields of study such as psychology, public relations (marketing analysis), sociology, economics etc

Religion is a rich hunting ground for anyone looking for means of manipulation.....all the rituals and the mind games!

But the truth as i see it is that the human spirit longs to be free

So carlin knows all this and he knows that he is doing an interview on TV and in front of an audience and in front of his fellow guests who he is debating with. He knows that the first thing that the people he is debating with will do if he drifts too far from the narrative weaved by the mainstream media is accuse him of being crazy or of being a 'conspiracy theorist'

he knows that many peopls perception of reality is handed to them by the mainstream media. So he has to speak in that language. He knows that the boundaries of the debate have already been decided! If he drifts outside those boundaries he will lose his listeners who will instantly fall back on their conditioning which is to view anything that doesn't come from the mainstream media as 'kooky' or 'crazy' or 'conspiracy theory'

he has a small window to say something to a TV audience that might open up their minds....that might challenge the perception of reality created by the corporate media. he wants to break the spell because he is a shamen, but he knows he must walk a fine line or he will lose all credibility

The spell must be broken bit by bit, step by step

So he picks his words carefully. In the second clip he is more direct about the depth of the conspiracy. he is not just saying that the conspiracy is tacit he is now saying that the conspiracy is verbalised among the elite or as he puts it that poweful people have got together and formed a 'plan'

What amazes me is how people can consciously accept that there were knigs and queens who conspired with their courts (their aristocracy) to rule over everyone else in the land because this has been taught to them in the education system but they can't conceive that the same thing is going on now except we don't call them 'aristocrats' we call them 'bankers', 'global investors', the military industrial complex', the 'power elite' etc

The same dynamic is at play and further to that, just as medieval kings and queens always had magicians in their courts to advise them, so to do the leaders of today

[youtube;VAFd4FdbJxs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAFd4FdbJxs]

Also this one:
http://youtu.be/bO0-u900OG4

Stand up comedy is a good platform for deliviering the truth and exposing the demons of society

There's that old saying: 'if you're going to tell people the truth then make them laugh or they'll hate you for it!'

I like what Cralin had to say about the state of education in the US and how he talks about the 'real owners' of the US....pick your own names for them...i tend to call them the 'power elite' but some of the people debating with me here like to use the name 'illuminati' because they are tryin to discredit what i'm saying and 'illuminati' sounds fantastical even though it is just another name for what is a revolutionary cabal of very wealthy people

[video=youtube;Dpcd0woY2KY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpcd0woY2KY[/video]

I would tend to agree more with the first one because I do believe that even amongst the elites there is a great deal of incompetence and greater loyalty to egos fuelled by economic gain than any agenda.

It depends on what level of the conspiracy the person is on. For example i've had political conversations with businessmen who are millionaires; they will say they support the tories because they want to cut taxes for the rich. They might even be members of the rotary club or freemasons but they are voting to save their money not to support the creation of a world government, but they are still helping to create a world goverment by voting for a party that works for the financial sector and is in fact massivley funded by them (the financial sector are the biggest financial contributors towards the tory party)

But if you go higher up the conspiracy and you picked the brains of a billionaire or trillionaire who was a much higher grade freemason then they would be able to tell you of a broader agenda to the political moves of the torys

So it is a pyramidal structure. The guys at the top know EXACTLY what is going on because they are orchestrating it but each tier below them knows less and less of why things are happening and are more money orientated. Go down to the bottom of the pyramid and people are focussed on survival and have no stake in the conspiracy except as the worker ants and consumers

So people don't all have to be privy to all the facts to be moving in the same direction, so both interpretations are correct

I do struggle with the idea of Illuminati etc because I struggle to see how the ones who have evolved past such things are still so concerned with having great influence over the planet...if they have the kind of connection to spiritual realms and esoteric knowledge. Is there meant to be some value in keeping others down? I mean, I don't understand why the esoteric side of things would happen at all. Is it just that people maybe underestimate and undervalue the kind of forces they are playing with like the child who plays with ouiji boards in a horror film, for example?

If you interviewed a higher up they would say that they believe that a centralised world government run by businessmen and bankers is better than a divided world run by governments. They would even mention all the wars that there have been between governments....what they won't say is that they helped orchestrated many of those wars and financially benefitted from them!

But if your insight doesn't stop at the cornea of their eye and you continue right inside their psyche.....what do you think lurks in there? Do you think you will find compassion and love for humanity or do you think you will find a monstrous ego that believes that it should rule everyone else with complete impunity.....control freakery on a scale most people can't even conceive of......where the monstrous ego won't be satisfied when it owns all the wealth or rules unilaterally but will require to know everything about everyone including the make up of their DNA, where they are at all times, what they buy, what they view online, what their facial dimensions are, what their fingerprints, corneal patterns and voice signatures are.

In fact as Orwell says in 1984, big brother won't be content unless it controls not just your actions but how you think....they want to engineer our perceptions of reality and our thought processes themselves. they are working on nano technology to achieve behavioural modification.

If you want my personal view on the mentality of these people....i don't think they will be satisfied until they have us plugged into the mainframe like in the 'matrix' film.....that is the level of control they aspire to

The only thing stopping them from achieving that is us and to what extent we are willing to resist that process

The number of people under close surveillance under the Stasi is going to be a fraction of those the NSA will keep tabs on with their new super computer in Utah

Also, do you believe that there is truth in the esoteric side of things or do you just acknowledge that there is experimentation in that area?

I think that the cabal have an understanding about the nature of our reality that most people around the world currently don't have and this allow them to get a leg up on most people

My friend put it well when we were discussing things. He called this period a 'watershed moment' for humanity and I agree. Admittedly that is pretty much all he said, he summed up my lengthy rant :lol: but I think that was a good way to put it.

We are at a crossroads....we either acquiesce to their new world order and accept a new currency and form of government and a very different society and world or we resist it and demand more people power ie more say in the running of our communities and over our lives

Its make or break time

 

[Matt3737]

Once again you are putting words in my mouth!

There is an agenda among a cabal to centralise power; that is a reality whether you like it or not

I am exaggerating your claims for effect. It is hyperbole and a form of reductio ad absurdum. You have not defined what this 'power' is or what it is capable of. That is not a fact, but an interpretation. You cannot use a vague and undefined term as part of a factual claim.

They are powerful as they have taken over the levers of power and control the money supply yet they are weak in that they depend on us and our aquiescance.

You assume influence is equal to absolute dominance.

In this quote, you acknowledge that power has limits, but yet you do not specifically define what limits this power has and go on to make unsubstantiated claims about the cabal's ability and intentions to centralise this so called 'power'.

If we assume this to be true, then what exactly would that mean? You have to acknowledge limitations to this power. It is not omnipotence to redefine the laws of physics, time travel, and/or dominant every aspect of human existence. So, can you explain to me, specifically, why I should be concerned?

Lol after you tried to say i was like John nash from a 'Beauthiful mind'? Lol so its ok for you to try and suggest that i am a paranoid schizophrenic but when i point out to you that you are clinging to a false perception of reality much like the one people cling to when they perceive of santa as being real because it is a perfect analogy of how people can be lied to when enough people repeat the lie you get all indignant?

You are certainly not schizophrenic, but I think you go too far and exceed reason in your pursuit of reconizing the patterns.

I specifically stated that I did not believe you to be schizophrenic. Are you purposely being misleading or did you simply skim over what I wrote without consideration?

The part i've highlighted is very telling

You have already decided in your mind what reality is. For that reason you are not open to other possibilities and are therefore trapped in a perceptual prison, much like a child that won't let go of the santa claus myth because they have invested too much into it

Your analogy is akin to saying that prisoners cannot imagine being free because they are locked up. I am both willing and able to consider your propositions, but that doesn't mean I will accept them as unequivocally true.

It is not telling of anything other than that you do not present a convincing argument to me. I am willing to listen and consider, but acceptance is my right and my free will. If you continue to insult me by implying that I fail to reason as an adult simply because I refuse to accept your claims on faith, then there is no point in furthering this discussion or continuing to listen to your claims. If I choose to disagree with you, then that is my right to do so.

 

[muir]

you two better shut up, the naughty list is real

I have no doubt that they have different categorys of lists and that we will all be categorised

At some point they will have to play their final card and its at that point where many might resist

For example everyone has different breaking points. Some people will aquiesce all the way and some are already resisting. Others might have a point they won't go beyond for example they might not aquiesce to having a microchip implanted into them.

So when there are big bursts of resistance the trouble makers will be categorised and dealt with accordingly. The worst trouble makers will probably be 'dissapeared' much like the CIA helped to do with 30,000 dissenters in Operation Condor (a further 50,000 were murdered and 400,000 imprisoned)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

That is all of course if the resistance is disparate and small scale....if people unite and act in concert then they will win

Oh and when they wrote 'dissapeared' on their records what they really mean is they blind folded them and handcuffed them and then flew them over the sea in helicopters, cut their bellies open and shoved them out the door

 

[muir]

I am exaggerating your claims for effect. It is hyperbole and a form of reductio ad absurdum. You have not defined what this 'power' is or what it is capable of. That is not a fact, but an interpretation. You cannot use a vague and undefined term as part of a factual claim.

That might be your perception but what you are doing in actuality is trying to make me look absurd, thereby discrediting me and by association what i'm saying

If you are really interested in what i'm saying then look into it....don't waste time trying to make me look bad

In this quote, you acknowledge that power has limits, but yet you do not specifically define what limits this power has and go on to make unsubstantiated claims about the cabal's ability and intentions to centralise this so called 'power'.

I can give you my personal opinion about what i think their ultimate goal is but i might not do that if i think its a waste of time

What many people are agreed on and what these people themselves (see quotes of what they've said for their own words) and researchers like Prof. Carroll Quigley (who had access to the files of the milner group) are saying is that they are seeking to build a one world government which they will control

I think this is a bad idea as from what i've seen whenever there is centralised power there is corruption and exploitation

If we assume this to be true, then what exactly would that mean? You have to acknowledge limitations to this power. It is not omnipotence to redefine the laws of physics, time travel, and/or dominant every aspect of human existence. So, can you explain to me, specifically, why I should be concerned?

what they are doing is changing the nature of our society and also they are trying to define our perceptions of reality

So if you want some say over your own life and community and if you want to have a relationship with the truth then their actions should be a concern

The limits to their power is the ability of people to see through the perceptual spell that has been woven for them. So historic exmaples of these might be war propaganda for example people being told that their enemy are nailing babies to church doors or that they have weapons of mass destruction that could strike europe in 45 minutes etc

We can only be fooled into behaving how they want us to behave if we can only see reality as they want us to perceive it. If we see through the lies and illusions then our mind becomes free. From that point it is then possible to begin working to free the body

I specifically stated that I did not believe you to be schizophrenic. Are you purposely being misleading or did you simply skim over what I wrote without consideration?

I think that by mentioning it at all you are creating a perceptual link. For example if i accused you of rape (like what is being done to julian assange) and took you to court....even if you managed to not be charged the stigma would cling to you like a bad smell. Many people might have nothing to do with you

I think that by mentioning me in conjunction with John Nash you were creating a stigma around me....its a form of character assassination, particularly as i am heavily opposed to Nash's 'game theory'

Its better just to look at the facts i'm presenting instead of me (ad hominum)

Your analogy is akin to saying that prisoners cannot imagine being free because they are locked up. I am both willing and able to consider your propositions, but that doesn't mean I will accept them as unequivocally true.

A prisoner can be free in the mind but not in the body. But the first step is freeing the mind...yes?

It is not telling of anything other than that you do not present a convincing argument to me. I am willing to listen and consider, but acceptance is my right and my free will. If you continue to insult me by implying that I fail to reason as an adult simply because I refuse to accept your claims on faith, then there is no point in furthering this discussion or continuing to listen to your claims. If I choose to disagree with you, then that is my right to do so.

You are welcome to your own opnion but not your own facts and the fact is that there is a cabal who are working towards a world government and that fact remains regardless of your opinion

 

[Cornerstone]

I could maybe elaborate on what I said in the rep comment, by the way. There wasn't much space but I think I got the bare bones across.

 

[muir]

I could maybe elaborate on what I said in the rep comment, by the way. There wasn't much space but I think I got the bare bones across.

Yeah go for it!

I'm happy to discuss the conspiracy on different levels of perceptions from what i am very sure of to more speculative stuff

Some people say that what Ike is doing when he talks of reptillians is creating a meta-narrative to help people get to grips with a difficult reality

I can only speculate on what i think he really means....but i think he means what he is actually saying....that there are mind parasites who have hacked into our consciousness and are feeding off our pain and misery

I tend not to discuss things on those levels for obvious reasons. Its much easier to post the organisations who own the fed and who the families are behind those organisations then it is to discuss things outside what Ike would call 'holographic reality'

But he is not the only person talking in these terms and there is a book called the 'holographic universe' that discusses it further:



I'm gonna head to bed just now but would love to carry on the discussion tomorrow if you want

 

[Cornerstone]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] [MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION]

Okay, I just read that back and it was very vague.

So in case anyone reading isn't familiar with The Reptilians, here's a link to the Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilians

There's a lot said about them really. I've heard things about dimensions being stacked on top of each other and shapeshifting abilities but I get the basic idea that they're aliens. Intelligent, an 'advanced' species - in the same sort of way we are but much better. They are either in a dimension on top of ours and able to get access in ways if you read some things or they're really far away and, well, I'm not totally clued up on all the details in the theories.

What I think though, forgetting for a moment about dimensions and just look at the fact that there are a shit ton of other planets out there; literally billions. I reckon it is pretty safe to assume there is other life out there - I reckon loads of it! It's probably at different levels of progress as well and there does seem to be this duality going on that was mentioned before, either in this thread or a similar one.

We appear to be, then, at this 'watershed' or 'crossroads' moment in our history when the institutions are becoming much more permanent and difficult to dismantle. If you do look at the bankers as a group with a large self interest with the genuine, but secondary, function of providing a service to the public then the bailout with public money and the deliberate rebuilding of a system that had failed is an attempt to write our own history rather than live through it naturally. I don't think that propping up a system that was found to be riddled with recklessness, fecklessness, corruption and greed was the only solution. Perhaps the quickest, perhaps the easiest, perhaps the best for the status quo but not the only one and definitely not the best for the majority of people as we have seen clearly. It is not a genuine austerity period if it isn't affecting the people who were responsible for it - this is something else - and we have made the point of rebuilding corruption in the most important aspect of our capitalist society; the control of the money.

So we're allowing negative qualities to triumph over positive ones and, as with the banking system, other industries become corrupted and nightmarish when profit becomes the most important thing and empathy plummets. The prison system in the UK is on the verge of privatisation and it doesn't take much research into the prison and military complexes to see that these are not good and they will be very difficult if not impossible to eradicate completely because of levels of technology have made absolute control within real reach. It has been the dream of many rulers over the centuries and millenia but only now is it actually becoming posssible because of technology.

The only question is anyone still trying to do it or have we all grown out of that?

Remeber that this is not a matter of nations anymore. The world is connected totally and financial interests cross national boundaries more easily and often than ever before. This is true for the person who buys stocks in a forgeign company up to those playing with huge amounts of money. It won't be any nation who takes over the world under their own flag - it is more likely that everyone will retain the resemblance of individuality whilst slowly becoming more and more analogous with no-one able to make any major changes to law in their own countries because it would violate international treaties that have great repercussions in foreign relations if they are broken or reneged upon.

The control of these global institutions that are in the best interests of everyone at the lowest level but involve activity that many at the lowest level would regard as 'sinister' to say the least is in the hands of those at the very top - self advancement at the expense of others is key to this kind of society so there would be a similar but more pronounced social heirarchy to the one we have today.

I think you get the idea, if you've made it this far...congrats! Back to The Reptilians!

I don't know what they're like but I imagine it is a society that, when faced with this fork in the road, chose the path of darkness. But darkness, I think, does not come from malice or evil; but from fear. Those in power rule with fearful egos and the populace are too fearful to prevent the process even though it slowly grows worse day by day. Of course there are those happy to live in a world like that, as there always are. The lower members who want the material benefits and can blissfully ignore the evil as long as it doesn't affect them and when it does, well, what are they going to do about it?

I think this idea could be a metaphor of some sort for what we could become or they could be a genuine other species from really fucking far away. I don't think they're actually involved with anything on earth but it is possible they know about us. I think that the shapeshifting dealy isn't literal but that they are, in terms of culture and mentality (and levels of consciousness) the result of the worst of our current way of life pushed to its logical conclusion.

I don't know about David Icke. Sometimes he says good stuff and even borders on the profound at times but then he says really mad things that I don't think are coming from anywhere but his imagination and the imaginations of those who have pushed him into becoming a celebrity. I don't think he always has stuff to say about things but he has become THE authority that I think sometimes a lot of crap comes from him because he feels obliged to say more things. I think there is still ego there maybe, but I don't think he's doing it for the money. He was on the news, doing alright. It doesn't look like a total delusion breakdown either as some would say.

So, this was all theoretical but, really, it's neither here nor there if they are real but I think that it is likely this scenario has played out many times in the Universe. Some have gone the good way and evolved whilst some have become dystopias - a fate possibly worse than destruction because it creates a world where spiritual advancement and evolution is no longer possible.

I don't think we're out of the woods yet is what I'm saying. Not by a long shot and we're walking around bumping into the trees.

 

[Kgal]

@muir @Kgal

Okay, I just read that back and it was very vague.

So in case anyone reading isn't familiar with The Reptilians, here's a link to the Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilians

There's a lot said about them really. I've heard things about dimensions being stacked on top of each other and shapeshifting abilities but I get the basic idea that they're aliens. Intelligent, an 'advanced' species - in the same sort of way we are but much better. They are either in a dimension on top of ours and able to get access in ways if you read some things or they're really far away and, well, I'm not totally clued up on all the details in the theories.

What I think though, forgetting for a moment about dimensions and just look at the fact that there are a shit ton of other planets out there; literally billions. I reckon it is pretty safe to assume there is other life out there - I reckon loads of it! It's probably at different levels of progress as well and there does seem to be this duality going on that was mentioned before, either in this thread or a similar one.

We appear to be, then, at this 'watershed' or 'crossroads' moment in our history when the institutions are becoming much more permanent and difficult to dismantle. If you do look at the bankers as a group with a large self interest with the genuine, but secondary, function of providing a service to the public then the bailout with public money and the deliberate rebuilding of a system that had failed is an attempt to write our own history rather than live through it naturally. I don't think that propping up a system that was found to be riddled with recklessness, fecklessness, corruption and greed was the only solution. Perhaps the quickest, perhaps the easiest, perhaps the best for the status quo but not the only one and definitely not the best for the majority of people as we have seen clearly. It is not a genuine austerity period if it isn't affecting the people who were responsible for it - this is something else - and we have made the point of rebuilding corruption in the most important aspect of our capitalist society; the control of the money.

So we're allowing negative qualities to triumph over positive ones and, as with the banking system, other industries become corrupted and nightmarish when profit becomes the most important thing and empathy plummets. The prison system in the UK is on the verge of privatisation and it doesn't take much research into the prison and military complexes to see that these are not good and they will be very difficult if not impossible to eradicate completely because of levels of technology have made absolute control within real reach. It has been the dream of many rulers over the centuries and millenia but only now is it actually becoming posssible because of technology.

The only question is anyone still trying to do it or have we all grown out of that?

Remeber that this is not a matter of nations anymore. The world is connected totally and financial interests cross national boundaries more easily and often than ever before. This is true for the person who buys stocks in a forgeign company up to those playing with huge amounts of money. It won't be any nation who takes over the world under their own flag - it is more likely that everyone will retain the resemblance of individuality whilst slowly becoming more and more analogous with no-one able to make any major changes to law in their own countries because it would violate international treaties that have great repercussions in foreign relations if they are broken or reneged upon.

The control of these global institutions that are in the best interests of everyone at the lowest level but involve activity that many at the lowest level would regard as 'sinister' to say the least is in the hands of those at the very top - self advancement at the expense of others is key to this kind of society so there would be a similar but more pronounced social heirarchy to the one we have today.

I think you get the idea, if you've made it this far...congrats! Back to The Reptilians!

I don't know what they're like but I imagine it is a society that, when faced with this fork in the road, chose the path of darkness. But darkness, I think, does not come from malice or evil; but from fear. Those in power rule with fearful egos and the populace are too fearful to prevent the process even though it slowly grows worse day by day. Of course there are those happy to live in a world like that, as there always are. The lower members who want the material benefits and can blissfully ignore the evil as long as it doesn't affect them and when it does, well, what are they going to do about it?

I think this idea could be a metaphor of some sort for what we could become or they could be a genuine other species from really fucking far away. I don't think they're actually involved with anything on earth but it is possible they know about us. I think that the shapeshifting dealy isn't literal but that they are, in terms of culture and mentality (and levels of consciousness) the result of the worst of our current way of life pushed to its logical conclusion.

I don't know about David Icke. Sometimes he says good stuff and even borders on the profound at times but then he says really mad things that I don't think are coming from anywhere but his imagination and the imaginations of those who have pushed him into becoming a celebrity. I don't think he always has stuff to say about things but he has become THE authority that I think sometimes a lot of crap comes from him. I think there is still ego there.

So, this was all theoretical but, really, it's neither here nor there if they are real but I think that it is likely this scenario has played out many times in the Universe. Some have gone the good way and evolved whilst some have become dystopias - a fate possibly worse than destruction.

I don't think we're out of the woods yet is what I'm saying. Not by a long shot and we're walking around bumping into the trees.

How odd that you mention the Reptilians. I was watching a video interview with Drunvalo Melchizedek and he talked a little bit about them having been here (not for the first time) but were defeated and have now gone. That was the first I had ever heard of them. As for being visited here on earth by other "entities" I am running into more and more people(via the web) coming out and confirming it. So I don't doubt there were reptiles here too. Also...I watched a youtube video (cannot remember the name) about 2 months ago which included amatuer film footage of "something" out in the crop field moments before and during a crop circle as it was formed.

A woman I follow claims the other intelligences out in the 5th and 6th dimensions are trying to communicate with us using the circles. She also says that we must focus our attention and set our intentions on what we WANT to see - not on what we don't want to see - ie governments/institutions/behaviors and attitudes of those in power.

She's not the only one telling me this either. There are many - many - others who are Joyful saying the same thing in different ways. Thing is... once I started doing this in my life for myself - I saw it happen.

When Ghandi said "Be the change you wish to see" - he was literally telling the truth of what can happen right now - if only we would focus. Dec 21st 2012 marks a shift in consciousness that will last for about 3 years. We have that time to help everyone wake up.

What would you like to see in your sphere of things?

Personally I am focusing upon shedding the last of old guilt and rage and grief that has built up in my life. I am focusing on things that bring me joy and I take special care to emphasize and celebrate it when it happens. This makes room for unconditional love for myself and then in turn radiates outwards in my environment.

While I was in New Jersey for a month every new person I met I genuinely liked. I even fell in love with a few and helped them see their "spark" in themselves. I helped them become unstuck and take steps to learn how to love themselves etc. This is what I wish to see every day in every way all around me. And in order to do that - I had to do it first for myself by disengaging from all that I hated to see around me.

Of course recognizing that which is harmful and what I didn't want - was the first step. So it's good to develop an awareness of the conspiracies and actions those in power use to keep us in the dark. That helps one to wake up. After that...the task becomes to shift from getting mired in it and feeling the fear - to seeking that which promotes what you want to see - and feeling the joy when you find it.

This - and only this - is what I believe will shape the next few years to come - into my grand vision of a compassionate world.

EDIT: Here's the video I watched.

[video=youtube;4Sq-S_rLy-g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sq-S_rLy-g[/video]

 

[Cornerstone]

She also says that we must focus our attention and set our intentions on what we WANT to see - not on what we don't want to see - ie governments/institutions/behaviors and attitudes of those in power.

This is very interesting and I think true especially if we consider that these institutions are becoming more permanent. We must focus on replacements for these and they will become defunct. I do not believe in 'if you can't beat them, join them' strictly because they will be beaten naturally if they can be replaced. There are always more options available than the ones that are most enthusiastically or even, in the case of fuels, forcibly pushed upon the us as the public.

While I was in New Jersey for a month every new person I met I genuinely liked. I even fell in love with a few and helped them see their "spark" in themselves. I helped them become unstuck and take steps to learn how to love themselves etc. This is what I wish to see every day in every way all around me. And in order to do that - I had to do it first for myself by disengaging from all that I hated to see around me.

That's really nice. I saw you were talking about 'flow' somewhere else. Sorry, I think it was you. Did you feel like that when you were able to be this way with people?

After that...the task becomes to shift from getting mired in it and feeling the fear - to seeking that which promotes what you want to see - and feeling the joy when you find it.

Yes! I agree completely! I am very glad I tagged you - I knew it was a good idea!

I just finished listening to that clip and a lot of it was very interesting but, as I've said before, these ideas are so outside of anything I have ever been told by any sort of 'authority' that, even when I find myself agreeing instinctively or whatever, I feel like I should be wrong. Whereas so often I have known in my gut that what an authority figure was saying was wrong and yet followed it because I figured my gut is wrong. Well, that's not strictly true, I didn't stop believing I was right...I just saw it was fruitless to resist. But I'm at a point where I want to just piss off and grow my own fruit! :lol:

Some good stuff though, but thing like it taking 11 sperm to fertilize an egg? I've never heard that before.

How does the treatment work for people who can't get pregnant? I know some put lots of sperm and eggs in together which is why they often get multiple births but he just threw that out way too casually so I am left wondering about other things he said now. If that's true though...I don't know.

I've heard this thing about thoughts being creative and I do believe that. I also believe that there could be higher realms where the time between the thought and the creation is reduced to an instant so that is very interesting.

So, yeah, thanks!

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[muir]

@Cornerstone

I don't have time to fully respond to your post at the moment but if you want to hear more about what Ike is saying then you could watch his wembley talk which you can find on his website

He talks about the gnostic texts that have ben discovered in the last century and about how they talk about outside influences which they call 'archons'. Many different cultures seem to have a name for these entities for example the muslims call them 'djinn'

The recent 'matrix' films depict the archons as 'agent smiths'. The gnostic creator god which stands between people and the divine light is the demiurge and in the matrix he is called the 'architect'. The freemasons also talk about the architect and have a G for geometry (sacred geometry) as one of their symbols.

Blake depicted him like this:



So Ike is talking about 'archontic' forces in our world. They lack creative abilities and can only subvert, invert and distort what others create. Now either you go down the literal route and you interprete them as actual outside forces or you take it more poetically and see it as meaning psychopathy.

The reason satanists invert everything for example the cross or write backwards using a mirror is because they are archontic forces.

Whats very strange is that we do see things being distorted and inverted all the time in the media by the elite that is running our countries through the banks and other corporations

I will talk more about this but below is a link to an interview with the Hollywood director Oliver Stone (who is a vietnam veteran) and a US university Professor of history Peter Kuznik. They are releasing films and books outlining how the US has become an 'orwellian state'.

I have made many of the points they make in the interview so its good for me to show this sort of thing because its easy for some people to dismiss me as crazy for saying these things online but its a little more difficult to dismiss well known intellectuals and activists.

http://rt.com/news/oliver-stone-us-orwellian-022/

They advise that we must 'rout out' the core problem. As I've been saying in my posts they say that people tend to treat the symptoms and not the core problem. This is all very admirable and i agree with them, but they fail to say exactly what the root cause is!

There is a reason for this. If the prof tells people EXACTLY what the root cause is he will never work in academia again and if Stone says what it is he will never work in Hollywood again.

So instead lets hear a past US president Andrew Jackson hear what he believed the root problem was:

''The bold effort the present (central) bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it.

Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out.''

Ike will possibly tell you that the central bankers are simply the outer order....a physical manifestation of the archontic forces in the world. But tackling the physical manifestation would be a good start

 

[MrDoobie]

I am exaggerating your claims for effect. It is hyperbole and a form of reductio ad absurdum.

Shut up your fancy words can only go so far they're lies.

When the Lizardmen round us up for the public anal rapings your virgin asshole will be reamed by Doomcock McGee.

You cave-dwelling blind troglodyte.

In the New World Order your name is Peaches.

No its the other way around. I know this because I have seen santa without his mask

 

[the]

Shut up your fancy words can only go so far they're lies.

When the Lizardmen round us up for the public anal rapings your virgin asshole will be reamed by Doomcock McGee.

You cave-dwelling blind troglodyte.

In the New World Order your name is Peaches.


View attachment 16663

You use 'virgin asshole' like its something to be ashamed of. Dont push your values on me.