The man who saw into the future

According to christian teachings, Jesus, the Son of God, died on the cross for the world's sins, therefore granting humanity salvation® through divine grace.

Yusuf said:
Islam means to submit your will to god, anyone who says it is not my will but god’s will is Muslim, Jesus never said he is a god, he was a Muslim. We praise Jesus, and we believe he is one of the mightiest messengers of god but we don’t worship him. Jesus said not to eat pork nor to drink wine, we Muslims don’t do so when Christians do, we are more Christians than the Christians themselves.
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Jesus talked mostly about love, and a lot about humility and forgiveness. He also mentioned things about camels and needles, beams and eyes.
Moreover, the way you describe the concept of the Trinity is a grave misunderstanding.

You're free to copy/paste whatever texts you find on the interwebs, but it hardly makes this topic a serious theological or philosophical discussion. It's like you're trying to argue wine is better than beer, by quoting Bacchus.
 
it's sort of like having a Jehovah's Witness or Latter Day Saint at your door, after you tell them you are a christian. . you're wrong,, they are right. . it's pointless
 
Professor Snep said:
According to christian teachings, Jesus, the Son of God, died on the cross for the world's sins, therefore granting humanity salvation® through divine grace.


Jesus talked mostly about love, and a lot about humility and forgiveness. He also mentioned things about camels and needles, beams and eyes.
Moreover, the way you describe the concept of the Trinity is a grave misunderstanding.

You're free to copy/paste whatever texts you find on the interwebs, but it hardly makes this topic a serious theological or philosophical discussion. It's like you're trying to argue wine is better than beer, by quoting Bacchus.
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He surely came to spread love, which is acquired by peace.
Theological or philosophical?
Claiming any book to be the word of god is an easy task, but proving so and giving it something which makes it distinct from other religions is the real task, which no other religon does, which is why there are plenty of atheists and agnostics, as if god didn't know people will be asking for proves.
Your religon leaves a wide space for doubt, for me, my religon answers both logical and spritual questions, that's why it is much easier for you to eliminate reasoning in religon and call it a blind belief.
https://images.app.goo.gl/8UR63x4gcKQVueWV6
 
Yusuf said:
three forms: liquid, solid and gas
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It is also said that God is like a shamrock. 3 leaves on one flower (or whatever a shamrock is)

Yusuf said:
, it is scientifically impossible to say that they exist in three forms and the word trinity does not exist anywhere in the bible
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You're right. The word Trinity does not appear anywhere in the Bible. But remember, this argument removes the book from the spiritual living and theology, which immediately makes it a faulty claim. God as Trinity was revealed in life of what was expressed in the Bible.
Also, God > science You cannot prove God by scientific method. Also, let's not forget there are those Christians that also claim science is on their side, the Creationists. They claim to have found Noah's Ark. They claim there is proof humans walked with dinosaurs and unicorns and Adam and Eve were the only first two humans which according to secular science would mean there is a looooong blood line of inbred humans drooling around. The problem is, the Bible is not and never was intended to be that type of book.
 
acd said:
I'm really curious about this. Can you elaborate?
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I meant that with the same absolute vagueness as OP and his (and other's) scientific claims. There is a lot of research to be found about the benefits to the brain and body from meditation / prayer and religious or mystical experiences. Basically, any hard scientific proofs of any religion will only be found within the experience of the human body. It is interesting how many religions have an origin story of the universe that can be loosely linked to secular religion's Big Bang Theory. The interconnected oneness of all things is possibly becoming evident through quantum physics. Anyway, here's this which only touches on things but again, does not prove anything.

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/implicit-science-in-hindu-thought

https://www.deseret.com/2015/9/22/20572848/the-buddhist-belief-supported-by-science
 
Jesus was a great teacher and prophet, yet you do not believe what He said. I call that a forked tongue.
 
Milktoast Bandit said:
It is also said that God is like a shamrock. 3 leaves on one flower (or whatever a shamrock is)


You're right. The word Trinity does not appear anywhere in the Bible. But remember, this argument removes the book from the spiritual living and theology, which immediately makes it a faulty claim. God as Trinity was revealed in life of what was expressed in the Bible.
Also, God > science You cannot prove God by scientific method. Also, let's not forget there are those Christians that also claim science is on their side, the Creationists. They claim to have found Noah's Ark. They claim there is proof humans walked with dinosaurs and unicorns and Adam and Eve were the only first two humans which according to secular science would mean there is a looooong blood line of inbred humans drooling around. The problem is, the Bible is not and never was intended to be that type of book.
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- A shamrock has the same biological contents in the three heads.
- proving god by science does not remove spirituality, on the opposite, it strengthens it.
- The bible is impure, and there is no way to check whether the portion you are reading is from God or people. You may follow the chruch, but their teachings are as well orginated from the bible.
- we do believe adam and eve were the first humans as well, it's not that christianity does not support science, it may، and in sometimes it may as well be cuncurrent with it, but alot of what was mentioned in it was proven to be scientifically wrong, that eliminates the possibility it is from god, as god does not make mistake.
 
Milktoast Bandit said:
I meant that with the same absolute vagueness as OP and his (and other's) scientific claims. There is a lot of research to be found about the benefits to the brain and body from meditation / prayer and religious or mystical experiences. Basically, any hard scientific proofs of any religion will only be found within the experience of the human body. It is interesting how many religions have an origin story of the universe that can be loosely linked to secular religion's Big Bang Theory. The interconnected oneness of all things is possibly becoming evident through quantum physics. Anyway, here's this which only touches on things but again, does not prove anything.

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/implicit-science-in-hindu-thought

https://www.deseret.com/2015/9/22/20572848/the-buddhist-belief-supported-by-science
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Mediation and relaxing while focusing your whole oness into something surely have benefits for brain, i agree with that, but it isn't enough to convince someone that god exist, or that he is distinct from other false gods.

Listen to those hindu books, listen to the bible and listen to the Quran(With an open heart and mind) and see which one gives a true sense of spirituality.
 
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Yusuf said:
Mediation and relaxing while focusing your whole oness into something surely have benefits for brain, i agree with that, but it isn't enough to convince someone that god exist, or that he is distinct from other false gods.
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That depends on every individual, Yusef. One Prays, another Meditates, another Reflects.
Whatever is chosen as Religion or Spirituality and how it is practiced is one's own choice (a general remark, not targeted to you).
 
dragulagu said:
That depends on every individual, Yusef. One Prays, another Meditates, another Reflects.
Whatever is chosen as Religion or Spirituality and how it is practiced is one's own choice (a general remark, not targeted to you).
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Yup, we all are free to choose our beliefs.
 
Yusuf said:
- A shamrock has the same biological contents in the three heads.
- proving god by science does not remove spirituality, on the opposite, it strengthens it.
- The bible is impure, and there is no way to check whether the portion you are reading is from God or people. You may follow the chruch, but their teachings are as well orginated from the bible.
- we do believe adam and eve were the first humans as well, it's not that christianity does not support science, it may، and in sometimes it may as well be cuncurrent with it, but alot of what was mentioned in it was proven to be scientifically wrong, that eliminates the possibility it is from god, as god does not make mistake.
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I continue to let you know that what you are not holding just apples. You look in your hands and see apples and oranges and a damn chicken and still try to convince me you only have apples....
 
it appears that in the minds of some there can be only one. . your belief threatens their belief, and this is something I have never understood. They will of course offer up all sorts of arguments to try to prove the point, but we are not discussing facts,, so there is no truth, only belief, or what the individual believes to be true. what we have here is one trying to proselytize. . again, it will be argued as only an attempt to bring truth. . and so it goes
 
Yusuf said:
- The bible is impure, and there is no way to check whether the portion you are reading is from God or people. You may follow the chruch, but their teachings are as well orginated from the bible.
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Still does not answer my question, nor address it. You cannot answer it.

How can you say the Bible is impure?
 
Aneirin said:
it appears that in the minds of some there can be only one. . your belief threatens their belief, and this is something I have never understood. They will of course offer up all sorts of arguments to try to prove the point, but we are not discussing facts,, so there is no truth, only belief, or what the individual believes to be true. what we have here is one trying to proselytize. . again, it will be argued as only an attempt to bring truth. . and so it goes
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just me said:
Still does not answer my question, nor address it. You cannot answer it.

How can you say the Bible is impure?
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Whether you accept it or not, it does show our reason in not following the bible.
By saying it is not pure, i mean, it does not contain the exact words of god, it does not provide enough reasons to convince they are the words of god, it contains many contradictions within it self,contradictions with math and contradictions with science.
When those evidences are presented to christian scholars, they often deny it and escape instead of answering them directly.
If you are willing to devote some of your time to see at least what are the scientific things presented in the bible, this dialogue will be beneficial :

p.s: This site is complicated
 
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this is a poor venue for converting people to Islam. You will find us intrigued perhaps by the mental excersize and debate, but that's about it. this really does remind me of the young LDS pairs on bicycles pedaling around trying to spread the "truth" of their faith. . the arguments are all the same. . it is the truth, you only need to open your eyes to it. . the teller is not open to any new information because he already knows the "truth", as it is found in his book. . so you see, it isn't really a debate or even a conversation, it is a presentation that we are to "receive" some enlightenment
 
Roses In The Vineyard said:
This thread is a good example why people have more or less given up any effort in such matters of debate as people regardless are dead set in their ways.

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Aneirin said:
this is a poor venue for converting people to Islam. You will find us intrigued perhaps by the mental excersize and debate, but that's about it. this really does remind me of the young LDS pairs on bicycles pedaling around trying to spread the "truth" of their faith. . the arguments are all the same. . it is the truth, you only need to open your eyes to it. . the teller is not open to any new information because he already knows the "truth", as it is found in his book. . so you see, it isn't really a debate or even a conversation, it is a presentation that we are to "receive" some enlightenment
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Your scholars are there trying to make their point as well, or you deny them as well ?
 
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