The Minimal Facts for the Resurrection of Christ.

I know you didn't ask this, but I wanted to share this with you so you can see how I dialog with other people in more of a IRL setting. I was on this podcast. This is more or less what I am like IRL. You can make any judgment you want about me after listening to this, but I'm just sharing it so you see what I am actually like.


I believe that because of how many time you have debated people online that you have somehow grouped certain people as being this way or that way from experience of some of the stuff you learned about them from those debates. In other words you now have in your mind a system of grouping or archetypes of the way people are. This is common way of thinking but neglects that each individual is not a category or can be attributed to groups in the way they have been.

I can see that because this might be the case it would be a form of unconscious stereotyping. All theists are like x or all liberals or all conservatives or all Christians or Jews or all people, that do not believe what I believe. You are searching for reasons why people act as they do, but you make it explicit and thus cannot relate to people at their level.

I will not say this way of thinking is bad. It is simply how your mind works to categorizes people by your experience. However it causes trouble because people do not want to be thought of as groups or archetypes or stereotypes. That is rare when it comes to such debates that we say: your team is x and so you are x. That be politics and not exactly what happens inside the person unless they feel attached to a team.

If I was to say that some kinds of things can be known by MBTI as example I could say such but its a limited tool. It gives us something to use but its a hammer and not everything is a nail. Same with religion is that even if some truths are in it it cannot be used outside the domain is is prescribed for. So if we say use that tool outside its domain we create false impression of what it means to be this or that religion. Religion can then be used to justify anything its not appropriate for. It can then be used by people to condemn them because everyone who is not in it is evil or wrong or whatever the religion says about outsiders. That is why most people reject it because people are individuals. Only in certain mindsets is it that people are all the same. That have everyone of x is always y but ignore the rest of the alphabet.

In more other words you are seeing things in a collectivist way. Individualism says verities of people beliefs and ideas exist and no one is cookie cutter so to speak. We are not all of the same mold. that treats people as objects on a manufacturing line. Not as beings who have had different life experiences. Collectivist thinking is not bad either it just doesn't work in contexts where people are aware of those circumstances outside the lines of normal cultural thinking.

I may have made a mistake saying things the way I have with emotional charge but to me being treated as an individual is most important from a cultural stance. I have thoughts and feelings and I am not an ant in an ant colony. I am not a stereotype or anything that my bring up race, creed or religion in the negative of all those people are an only X. You would not say that because I am partially black that I am a certain way or think a certain way. Where was I born, what languages do I know, how did my parents teach me to believe and relate to others. None of this is indicated by me saying I am partial black. You would be far removed to say You are not a Christian because of partial blackness so why say: you wanted intellectual stuff so became a jew. It has no context no regard for the individual it simply means you have no idea what a person is because of some idea in your head of them. Maybe I like KFC but I also like McDonalds and whatever else I like but its what I like and no one else. Reasoning is the same. Not everyone will reason the same if they believe the other person is not listening. People will not listen if you put them in a group of such and such. All atheist/whoever else reason like X

So basically the system of categorizations you learned have failed. It is a way of thinking that can be good in general but specifically individuals reason learn think speak and act in contexts of the life the had and what they are on the inside. The outside may show some things about them but it will not show everything. In the limitations of what can be written and shown here I will say that I hope to see people as people not groups even if thinking in group terms is what other do its not what I do. I try to avoid it as much as people. On the surface we could say I like brand X and so the recommendation engine will give me advertisements of brand Y - this is fine but always its halfway wrong. people are flawed when they think of others just like the algorithm is. No matter how much life experience you have had with people or a topic you can always be wrong is some way that matters to the people you interact with.

I hope I haven't said anything offensive, this is in general terms of how people and systems operate. When I took a shower I felt like vomiting because I self triggered my own PTSD - I was shocked by my responses earlier because I know I can become out of control emotionally. It was just that I do not believe anyone should think things of others that is not true because that leads to projection and especially if we are saying things about others the public sees as not true, in public others will call us out on it eventually as social workings happen in group dynamics.
 
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It's perceived as me telling you your experiences don't matter. That's not my intention.
Intention is laudable, certainly, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Regardless of intention, love thy neighbor.
But in both the case with Aeon and yourself, you just don't want to actually tell me how I am wrong, for whatever reason.
I never said you were wrong. Stop attributing things to me you have no knowledge of, please.
I'm not sure what I need to do at that point.
Look into a mirror, metaphorically, and notice the distance between your persona, and your self.

Reconcile the two, and integrate your shadow.

Best to You,
Ian
 
Maybe I just should not assume what people are like. IDK what changes I need to make to do that, but it's really hard for me not to assume things about people, especially when I am first getting to know them. In this way, I tend to assume less and less about the person as time goes on. IDK how NOT to do this where I categorize people. It's a huge flaw on my end and I'm just not sure how to correct that.
You are addicted to projection and judgment.

You correct that by wilfully stopping the behavior.

As to how to stop it, I would guess it is not that different from drug addiction. One makes a commitment, and begins a process of self-work and growth.

I’d recommend it for you for your own sake, but also because it would make it so much easier, and nourishing, for you to be a living embodiment of your faith.

Cheers,
Ian
 
I believe that because of how many time you have debated people online that you have somehow grouped certain people as being this way or that way from experience of some of the stuff you learned about them from those debates. In other words you now have in your mind a system of grouping or archetypes of the way people are. This is common way of thinking but neglects that each individual is not a category or can be attributed to groups in the way they have been.

I can see that because this might be the case it would be a form of unconscious stereotyping. All theists are like x or all liberals or all conservatives or all Christians or Jews or all people, that do not believe what I believe. You are searching for reasons why people act as they do, but you make it explicit and thus cannot relate to people at their level.

I will not say this way of thinking is bad. It is simply how your mind works to categorizes people by your experience. However it causes trouble because people do not want to be thought of as groups or archetypes or stereotypes. That is rare when it comes to such debates that we say: your team is x and so you are x. That be politics and not exactly what happens inside the person unless they feel attached to a team.

If I was to say that some kinds of things can be known by MBTI as example I could say such but its a limited tool. It gives us something to use but its a hammer and not everything is a nail. Same with religion is that even if some truths are in it it cannot be used outside the domain is is prescribed for. So if we say use that tool outside its domain we create false impression of what it means to be this or that religion. Religion can then be used to justify anything its not appropriate for. It can then be used by people to condemn them because everyone who is not in it is evil or wrong or whatever the religion says about outsiders. That is why most people reject it because people are individuals. Only in certain mindsets is it that people are all the same. That have everyone of x is always y but ignore the rest of the alphabet.

In more other words you are seeing things in a collectivist way. Individualism says verities of people beliefs and ideas exist and no one is cookie cutter so to speak. We are not all of the same mold. that treats people as objects on a manufacturing line. Not as beings who have had different life experiences. Collectivist thinking is not bad either it just doesn't work in contexts where people are aware of those circumstances outside the lines of normal cultural thinking.

I may have made a mistake saying things the way I have with emotional charge but to me being treated as an individual is most important from a cultural stance. I have thoughts and feelings and I am not an ant in an ant colony. I am not a stereotype or anything that my bring up race, creed or religion in the negative of all those people are an only X. You would not say that because I am partially black that I am a certain way or think a certain way. Where was I born, what languages do I know, how did my parents teach me to believe and relate to others. None of this is indicated by me saying I am partial black. You would be far removed to say You are not a Christian because of partial blackness so why say: you wanted intellectual stuff so became a jew. It has no context no regard for the individual it simply means you have no idea what a person is because of some idea in your head of them. Maybe I like KFC but I also like McDonalds and whatever else I like but its what I like and no one else. Reasoning is the same. Not everyone will reason the same if they believe the other person is not listening. People will not listen if you put them in a group of such and such. All atheist/whoever else reason like X

So basically the system of categorizations you learned have failed. It is a way of thinking that can be good in general but specifically individuals reason learn think speak and act in contexts of the life the had and what they are on the inside. The outside may show some things about them but it will not show everything. In the limitations of what can be written and shown here I will say that I hope to see people as people not groups even if thinking in group terms is what other do its not what I do. I try to avoid it as much as people. On the surface we could say I like brand X and so the recommendation engine will give me advertisements of brand Y - this is fine but always its halfway wrong. people are flawed when they think of others just like the algorithm is. No matter how much life experience you have had with people or a topic you can always be wrong is some way that matters to the people you interact with.

I hope I haven't said anything offensive, this is in general terms of how people and systems operate. When I took a shower I felt like vomiting because I self triggered my own PTSD - I was shocked by my responses earlier because I know I can become out of control emotionally. It was just that I do not believe anyone should think things of others that is not true because that leads to projection and especially if we are saying things about others the public sees as not true, in public others will call us out on it eventually as social workings happen in group dynamics.

I'm actually really confused by this... Is it a bad thing or not the way you think I think? You say it's not, but you argue that it is...
 
How did you make this judgment?
By what you said. You assign characteristics to a person when you categorize them, and in order to categorize them, you must judge them as this or that.

Cheers,
Ian
 
Maybe I just should not assume what people are like. IDK what changes I need to make to do that, but it's really hard for me not to assume things about people, especially when I am first getting to know them. In this way, I tend to assume less and less about the person as time goes on. IDK how NOT to do this where I categorize people. It's a huge flaw on my end and I'm just not sure how to correct that.
I want to acknowledge your self-inquiry and self-awareness, as well as your humility and vulnerability.

That, to me, is commendable because I think and feel it virtuous.

Best to You,
Ian
 
I'm actually really confused by this... Is it a bad thing or not the way you think I think? You say it's not, but you argue that it is...

As a child grows up they think differently at all ages 2 to 7 to 12 to 18 even 20 and 30, 40, to 70

No stage of thought is bad it is just not appropriate in certain contexts.

When I was a child I thought as a child would be the bible verse.

Collectivist or archetypally thought is not bad it just is not going to work in some settings.

I do not know how you think exactly its just a reference from what I have seen.

Again its hard to know how others think and feel but we all have tried to do it. I remember I did and it got me in so much trouble.
 
That does not make me addicted to it or that I am projecting...
Sure it does. If you engage in compulsive behavior despite negative consequences, that’s textbook addiction.

Also, in order for you to categorize, you must project. You do not know them, so projection provides the framework by which judge and categorize.

Cheers,
Ian
 
appropriate in certain contexts.

This seems to be the nub of the issue. Seems my thinking is thought of as "not appropriate" here (and other places, honestly) for some reason. Don't know why this is the case.

I can't change who I am. I can try and change my behaviors, but I can't change who I am.

I guess this is why I learned to stay silent for so much of my life. My way of thinking is just offensive to a lot of people.
 
Sure it does. If you engage in compulsive behavior despite negative consequences, that’s textbook addiction.

Also, in order for you to categorize, you must project. You do not know them, so projection provides the framework by which judge and categorize.

Cheers,
Ian

I mean, "compulsive" is one way of putting it...

You make it seem like people should live their lives to be accepted. My value for Truth is far too high for that.

Categorization doesn't necessitate projection. Please provide an argument for why categorization requires projection... Was Jung just projecting for all his theories? No need to answer, but you can answer if you want.
 
When I took a shower I felt like vomiting because I self triggered my own PTSD - I was shocked by my responses earlier because I know I can become out of control emotionally.

Don't blame yourself too harshly. I was clearly offensive to you because of the way I described things. My ideas went against your individualism or whatever way you want to describe it.
 
My way of thinking is just offensive to a lot of people.

How is it that you think? What's offensive about the way that you think?
I like the way in which you think, it's the delivery I sometimes take issue with.
To be fair, I don't like most people's delivery so you're not special there.
 
This seems to be the nub of the issue. Seems my thinking is thought of as "not appropriate" here (and other places, honestly) for some reason. Don't know why this is the case.

I can't change who I am. I can try and change my behaviors, but I can't change who I am.

I guess this is why I learned to stay silent for so much of my life. My way of thinking is just offensive to a lot of people.

It is important to know when to say something and when not to.

Was is appropriate of me to say emotional things to you in the past?

I would say no and you would say no because they were the wrong things to say.

That is where we must try to see instead of clear lines in the sand, the consequences of what we say and to whom it is said.

For example I will ask you, were you silent because of emotional baggage, if so then you learned people were bad and would not listen.

I have often done the same, not say anything. But as an adult I now know which battles are worth it. It comes down to understanding that people have boundaries. Sometime calling others fat in public is the wrong thing to do. Men as a stereotype that the woman asks am I fat? Then the man says yes. The difficulty is knowing that this is important to her and so its not the same as ignoring to pay your taxes. lying to the government is a no no but still why must the man call his wife fat? There are many thing in-between but the lines are not always clear.

What it boils down to is understanding ambiguity.
Things can be grey but is that grey something we should stand up for or not.
The intentions of others is a grey line sometime.

in the thread context, the way we ask is just as important as why we ask
 
By forum, do you mean INFJs.com? Because I'm INFJ and want to interact with other INFJ's.

Do you mean this subforum, Philosophy and Religion? Because I LOVE discussing religion. In fact, I have a preference for discussing religion with those I disagree with because they are the ones that make me think, and that's what leads to spiritual growth.
oh so during shabbat you can go on a forum, when I went in Israel they couldn't even touch the button of the elevator.
And I've been there 3 times.

always glad to learn new things.

-Giammarco
 
How is it that you think? What's offensive about the way that you think?

Do you really want to know or are you just asking to ask?

Things can be grey but is that grey something we should stand up for or not.

I don't believe anything is grey in reality. There are some things we don't/can't know, but this doesn't make them truly grey areas. It just means we don't know what side of the fence they fall.
 
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