The morality of "owning" cats? (Cat owners please read)

[Flavus Aquila]

@Flavus Aquila

I called this morning and cancelled her appointment. I'm going to try and understand her estrus cycles better and give her more freedom than I've been giving her the past few days. If she gets pregnant I will just look at it as an opportunity to learn more about this amazing animals behavior. I think the one litter idea is genius and it's something I was already considering.

Also my cat told me this morning that she didn't want to get spayed. She said "Meow... meow meow meow. Meow meow meow meow meow". I said "fine, if that's not what you want then that's okay, I'll just call and and cancel. You can be very indecisive at times you know" she said "meow meow"

Even though I don't think she's got an opinion about the whole thing, I think you will find the whole life-cycle thing very awesome. When I was about ten our cat had kittens - watching them grow and how the mother looked after them has got to be in the top ten memories from childhood for me.

As [MENTION=751]Peppermint[/MENTION] says it can be hard to find homes for kittens - but when our cat got pregnant, various friends/family were curious about her progress. When the kittens were born everyone started to have favourites. Basically every kitten had already been claimed before they could even walk/crawl. It was just a matter of deciding when they would be independent enough not to cry for their mother cat all the time, before going home with their new owners.

 

[invisible]

I think that owning cats is basically unethical. They kill the wild life and they eat massive amounts of other animals in store bought food that is probably not ethically sourced. Many times, the tinned pet food just ends up flushed down the toilet, so that the lives of those other animals are completely wasted. My family has always had cats, at times it has been very rewarding, and I wouldn't give up those experiences for anything, but I won't own cats when I have my own choice about it. My personal opinion is that people should have their cats desexed. The cat will have a comfortable life and be taken care of properly without developing reproductive problems. There will also be fewer new cats in the world to eat the wild life, and there will be no danger that any kittens won't find good homes or become feral and inbred. I think it's overly sentimental to refrain from having the cat desexed, because I don't think the cat knows the meaning of whether it has been desexed or not, it sleeps (probably in some amount of discomfort - but you can give it a pain pill) for a few days and then goes on with its life totally as though nothing had happened. I don't believe that a cat can have an emotional aspiration in its life to have kittens, I think it just has them because its instincts tell it to get randy. I don't think sex is even all that enjoyable for cats, as the male cat has barbs on his penis. Since I think it is already totally unethical to own a cat, I don't think it's very meaningful to consider whether it is unethical to have it desexed. To me it just seems like the best thing for the environment and the health of the cat. Those are just my own personal opinions and I recognise that others feel differently about the matter.

 

[drummergirlbk]

Idk, with my cat, it seems like he not only wants human interaction and petting, but he needs and craves it. He gets cranky when he doesn't get his "quota"of petting, per se. Howecer, he also loves to be outside and so as a pet "owner" it is my responsibility to ensure that thus need is met. I personally don't think that "owning" an animal us humane or inhumane or whatever rather it's about the individual animal and its needs. My cat needs people more than other cats, and in taking him in I'm simply providing that need. For my cat, he needs to go outside during the day, but I take him inside at night and play with him then because the area where I live has a lot of predators for cats (in fact, that's how my last cat died).

 

[Stu]

I have had a couple of cat friends, very impressive animals with a unique history. But the bottom line is that they are killers. Taking that away from the is not cool but everyone that empowers the cat population needs to take that into consideration.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I have had a couple of cat friends, very impressive animals with a unique history. But the bottom line is that they are killers. Taking that away from the is not cool but everyone that empowers the cat population needs to take that into consideration.

What on this earth is not a killer in some way?

 

[veryINFJ1]

I have had a couple of cat friends, very impressive animals with a unique history. But the bottom line is that they are killers. Taking that away from the is not cool but everyone that empowers the cat population needs to take that into consideration.

They are very impressive animals, this is why I respect and adore cats more than dogs. My cat amazes me by how high she will jump to get a gecko. Or the incredible reactions and paw-eye coordination she has when she chases down a jungle roach, hunter spider, or jungle mouse. They are truly on a different level of athleticism. It amazes me how her eyes dilate and she instinctively reassures her footing before she pounces to attack. It's incredible how well she knows how to survive on her own when nobody taught her. She knows it from instinct.

The fact that cats are natural born killers is one of the primary reasons I decided to get a cat. Here in the country there are some seriously gnarly critters that will scare the crap out of you and make you very uncomfortable. My cat kills EVERYTHING. She keeps my cottage clean and free from rats, hunter spiders, centipedes, and giant roaches. I actually feel safer sleeping at night knowing that she is sleeping next to me. Because she has an amazing ability to spot a critter from across the room and run like a cheetah to attack it.

I feel like life in the country and my mutually beneficial relationship with my cat has put me in tune with why humans and cats have a relationship in the first place. And it has also made me realize that modern Americans have a strange relationship with the animal. They are SUPPOSED to be free to hunt and be cats. They are supposed to embrace their wild side. But westerners are trying to turn them into these house pets. They are selectively breeding them for specific traits which is creepy and they are "fixing" them to alter their behavior.

People say they "fix" cats because it's what's best for the cat. But lets be honest, we fix cats because if we didn't they wouldn't want to be our pets. They would be pissing all over our belongings, trying to run away, and all around acting like the wild animals that they are.

 

[veryINFJ1]

I think that owning cats is basically unethical. They kill the wild life and they eat massive amounts of other animals in store bought food that is probably not ethically sourced. Many times, the tinned pet food just ends up flushed down the toilet, so that the lives of those other animals are completely wasted. My family has always had cats, at times it has been very rewarding, and I wouldn't give up those experiences for anything, but I won't own cats when I have my own choice about it. My personal opinion is that people should have their cats desexed. The cat will have a comfortable life and be taken care of properly without developing reproductive problems. There will also be fewer new cats in the world to eat the wild life, and there will be no danger that any kittens won't find good homes or become feral and inbred. I think it's overly sentimental to refrain from having the cat desexed, because I don't think the cat knows the meaning of whether it has been desexed or not, it sleeps (probably in some amount of discomfort - but you can give it a pain pill) for a few days and then goes on with its life totally as though nothing had happened. I don't believe that a cat can have an emotional aspiration in its life to have kittens, I think it just has them because its instincts tell it to get randy. I don't think sex is even all that enjoyable for cats, as the male cat has barbs on his penis. Since I think it is already totally unethical to own a cat, I don't think it's very meaningful to consider whether it is unethical to have it desexed. To me it just seems like the best thing for the environment and the health of the cat. Those are just my own personal opinions and I recognise that others feel differently about the matter.

The cure to this is letting cats be wild and letting them fill their niche in nature. They will live in balance if we let them.

Easier said than done though. If I let my cat out in the wild I will be labeled an animal abuser. When really I feel abusive "owning" her in the first place and cutting out her organs. I will never adopt a cat again. I had no clue how wild they still were. And I don't want to contribute to the domestication of them. Dogs are pathetic. I would never want cats to end up like dogs.

I have a dog too. I love her but she is pathetic compared to my cat.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

The cure to this is letting cats be wild and letting them fill their niche in nature. They will live in balance if we let them.

Easier said than done though. If I let my cat out in the wild I will be labeled an animal abuser. When really I feel abusive "owning" her in the first place and cutting out her organs. I will never adopt a cat again. I had no clue how wild they still were. And I don't want to contribute to the domestication of them. Dogs are pathetic. I would never want cats to end up like dogs.

I have a dog too. I love her but she is pathetic compared to my cat.

You feel guilty for the mutual companionship you have. For Pete's sake!

Do parents feel guilty for having children, because they cry when they get immunised?

 

[Misadventure]

The cure to this is letting cats be wild and letting them fill their niche in nature. They will live in balance if we let them.

Easier said than done though. If I let my cat out in the wild I will be labeled an animal abuser. When really I feel abusive "owning" her in the first place and cutting out her organs. I will never adopt a cat again. I had no clue how wild they still were. And I don't want to contribute to the domestication of them. Dogs are pathetic. I would never want cats to end up like dogs.

I have a dog too. I love her but she is pathetic compared to my cat.

She was rescued from a shelter, no? So by never adopting a cat again one could look at it like you are contributing to animal euthanization by refusing to be part of a solution. A solution, maybe not the one you want, but a solution to help rescue homeless cats that would otherwise be put down or having to live their lives in a cage. Why was she taken from the wild to a shelter in the first place? Unless cats are in the wild, and by that I mean wilderness far away from human cities, stray cats will be seen as a nuisance to humans and will either be trapped and killed like rats or taken to shelters for adoption.

 

[veryINFJ1]

You feel guilty for the mutual companionship you have. For Pete's sake!

Do parents feel guilty for having children, because they cry when they get immunised?

You have to admit. Comparing immunization to sterilization is a pretty big stretch...

C'mon, admit it.

Our hormones play a big part in how we interpret the world around us. And when you sterilize a cat you not only take away their ability to reproduce but you permanently alter the way in which they interpret/experience the world around them. It's unfair considering we have no idea how they interpret the world. We don't even know where to begin.

Humans are very good at making assumptions about what cats feel/want. I think we underestimate them.

 

[Misadventure]

You have to admit. Comparing immunization to sterilization is a pretty big stretch...

C'mon, admit it.

Our hormones play a big part in how we interpret the world around us. And when you sterilize a cat you not only take away their ability to reproduce but you permanently alter the way in which they interpret/experience the world around them. It's unfair considering we have no idea how they interpret the world. We don't even know where to begin.

Humans are very good at making assumptions about what cats feel/want. I think we underestimate them.

But aren't you doing just that?

 

[veryINFJ1]

She was rescued from a shelter, no? So by never adopting a cat again one could look at it like you are contributing to animal euthanization by refusing to be part of a solution. A solution, maybe not the one you want, but a solution to help rescue homeless cats that would otherwise be put down or having to live their lives in a cage. Why was she taken from the wild to a shelter in the first place? Unless cats are in the wild, and by that I mean wilderness far away from human cities, stray cats will be seen as a nuisance to humans and will either be trapped and killed like rats or taken to shelters for adoption.

See this is a twisted way of thinking IMO. You say that by never adopting cats I am contributing to euthanization. I think that the biggest contributors to euthanization are the people that euthanize cats. If you don't want cats to be euthanized, stop euthanizing them. DUH.

Why are we taking it upon ourselves to kill these animals?? It's gross.

I don't care how hard my life was. I would want a fighting chance. I think a chance to fight for my survival is my right. Why is it any different for a cat?

She was found by hippies who were hiking in a sub-tropical desert. Miles away from human civilization. She was taken out of the wild and brought to a shelter along with her brother.

Have you ever noticed how cats 1) have dry shit 2) have urine that is very concentrated 3) lick dew and water off of everything 4) don't sweat. They are evolved to conserve water. And she was found in the environment she was evolved to live in. So I think hippies might have caught a wild animal and brought it into a shelter and turned it into a pet.

 

[veryINFJ1]

But aren't you doing just that?

I think that when you can't reach a valid conclusion, less is more.

Humans can't reach a valid conclusion about what cats feel/want. So we should leave it alone. Less is more.

And no, I'm not doing just that. I'm pointing out the fact that others do it.

 

[Misadventure]

See this is a twisted way of thinking IMO. You say that by never adopting cats I am contributing to euthanization. I think that the biggest contributors to euthanization are the people that euthanize cats. If you don't want cats to be euthanized, stop euthanizing them. DUH.

Why are we taking it upon ourselves to kill these animals?? It's gross.

I don't care how hard my life was. I would want a fighting chance. I think a chance to fight for my survival is my right. Why is it any different for a cat?

She was found by hippies who were hiking in a sub-tropical desert. Miles away from human civilization. She was taken out of the wild and brought to a shelter along with her brother.

Have you ever noticed how cats 1) have dry shit 2) have urine that is very concentrated 3) lick dew and water off of everything 4) don't sweat. They are evolved to conserve water. And she was found in the environment she was evolved to live in. So I think hippies might have caught a wild animal and brought it into a shelter and turned it into a pet.

Those damned hippies... I tell ya.

 

[acd]

See this is a twisted way of thinking IMO. You say that by never adopting cats I am contributing to euthanization. I think that the biggest contributors to euthanization are the people that euthanize cats. If you don't want cats to be euthanized, stop euthanizing them. DUH.

Why are we taking it upon ourselves to kill these animals?? It's gross.

I don't care how hard my life was. I would want a fighting chance. I think a chance to fight for my survival is my right. Why is it any different for a cat?

She was found by hippies who were hiking in a sub-tropical desert. Miles away from human civilization. She was taken out of the wild and brought to a shelter along with her brother.

Have you ever noticed how cats 1) have dry shit 2) have urine that is very concentrated 3) lick dew and water off of everything 4) don't sweat. They are evolved to conserve water. And she was found in the environment she was evolved to live in. So I think hippies might have caught a wild animal and brought it into a shelter and turned it into a pet.

Why don't you set her free then? How long have you had her? If she lived outside before, she will probably make it out there. She may even keep returning to you if you set her free. I've lived in different places and one thing I can say though is that once you feed a cat, it keeps coming back. I've had some feral cats who just wanted to hang out on my porch and sit in my lap. I don't know if they were someone's out door cats, maybe, because they were the friendliest cats and wanted nothing more it seemed than to hang out and sneak into my house.

I really don't think you are hurting this animal or that you have done something wrong. You saved her from a shelter, a horribly stressful environment. Cats and people, like people and dogs, have a mutually beneficial relationship.

In regards to neutering, I can see your qualms, but personally, I've neutered my pets. Cats will breed with their offspring if desperate enough, that is how strong the drive is. If you are going to keep her as a pet, neuter her and eliminate the drive. Makes things easier for her and you.

 

[veryINFJ1]

Why don't you set her free then? How long have you had her? If she lived outside before, she will probably make it out there. She may even keep returning to you if you set her free. I've lived in different places and one thing I can say though is that once you feed a cat, it keeps coming back. I've had some feral cats who just wanted to hang out on my porch and sit in my lap. I don't know if they were someone's out door cats, maybe, because they were the friendliest cats and wanted nothing more it seemed than to hang out and sneak into my house.

I really don't think you are hurting this animal or that you have done something wrong. You saved her from a shelter, a horribly stressful environment. Cats and people, like people and dogs, have a mutually beneficial relationship.

In regards to neutering, I can see your qualms, but personally, I've neutered my pets. Cats will breed with their offspring if desperate enough, that is how strong the drive is. If you are going to keep her as a pet, neuter her and eliminate the drive. Makes things easier for her and you.

I'm stuck in a dilemma but I'm also just trying to raise awareness. I'm playing the role of muir here. Because people seem to have reached a consensus about the morality of "fixing" cats and I don't think they fully think it through.

I want to set her free but if she got pregnant (which she would). I would feel responsible for the babies. I would be guilt tripped into caring for the offspring. I shouldn't have adopted a cat in the first place. And I don't think she should have been taken into the animal shelter in the first place either.

The animal shelter was a horrible place BTW. It was crowded and smelled so horrible. My cat had a rough beginning. She was separated from her mom and siblings at a very young age and then put in a cage in a horrible smelly disgusting shelter. Then she made a couple of friends at the shelter and was separated from them too when I adopted her. To this day my cat still tries to suckle on my bed sheets and my pillow. I read it's a habit they develop when they are separated from their mom to early.

I'm probably going to fix her in a couple of weeks. I'm not sure how good she would do in the wild. She was very young when the hippies found her.

 

[the]

I think that owning cats is basically unethical. They kill the wild life and they eat massive amounts of other animals in store bought food that is probably not ethically sourced. Many times, the tinned pet food just ends up flushed down the toilet, so that the lives of those other animals are completely wasted. My family has always had cats, at times it has been very rewarding, and I wouldn't give up those experiences for anything, but I won't own cats when I have my own choice about it. My personal opinion is that people should have their cats desexed. The cat will have a comfortable life and be taken care of properly without developing reproductive problems. There will also be fewer new cats in the world to eat the wild life, and there will be no danger that any kittens won't find good homes or become feral and inbred. I think it's overly sentimental to refrain from having the cat desexed, because I don't think the cat knows the meaning of whether it has been desexed or not, it sleeps (probably in some amount of discomfort - but you can give it a pain pill) for a few days and then goes on with its life totally as though nothing had happened. I don't believe that a cat can have an emotional aspiration in its life to have kittens, I think it just has them because its instincts tell it to get randy. I don't think sex is even all that enjoyable for cats, as the male cat has barbs on his penis. Since I think it is already totally unethical to own a cat, I don't think it's very meaningful to consider whether it is unethical to have it desexed. To me it just seems like the best thing for the environment and the health of the cat. Those are just my own personal opinions and I recognise that others feel differently about the matter.

This is a good summary of my beliefs. Our barns cats have even become lazy due to being fed by my mom and now we have rats coming near the house and chicken coup.

 

[veryINFJ1]

I think it's overly sentimental to refrain from having the cat desexed, because I don't think the cat knows the meaning of whether it has been desexed or not, it sleeps (probably in some amount of discomfort - but you can give it a pain pill) for a few days and then goes on with its life totally as though nothing had happened. I don't believe that a cat can have an emotional aspiration in its life to have kittens, I think it just has them because its instincts tell it to get randy.

I'm starting to feel like this topic is getting repetitive but I'm going to make this last point.

The justification you make for desexing cats is pretty common; "because I don't think the cat knows the meaning of whether it has been desexed or not, it sleeps (probably in some amount of discomfort - but you can give it a pain pill) for a few days and then goes on with its life totally as though nothing had happened."

This doesn't make sense to me. A good analogy is let's say you work at a restaurant and you are a busboy and the customer says to you "hey, give this $10 tip to the waitress who just served me, I don't feel like I tipped her enough". The waitress in her mind has already been tipped and if you pocket the money she won't ever miss the $10 dollars because she never knew she had it in the first place. Does this justify keeping the $10 dollars?

It's sort of the same argument. Because the waitress won't know about whether she got the additional tip or not. And she will go on with her life like it never happened.

Cats could be potentially missing out on lots of positive life experiences when we take away their ability to reproduce and permanently alter their hormone levels. Is it really a valid justification to say that it's okay to do because the cat doesn't know what he/she will miss?

 

[veryINFJ1]

So I woke up early this morning despite not getting home until late last night. I looked at my cat and said "sorry baby". I dragged my feet to the spay and neuter clinic and the whole time I was just looking at my cat looking so helpless in that little cage. I felt horrible for what I was about to do to her. I felt like a monster.

I got to the clinic, and the people who work there told me that if I get her spayed I also was required to have a computer chip installed underneath her skin. The computer chip would contain a bar code used to identify her in case she gets lost. I asked "can I just have her spayed and vaccinated without having the chip put in her?" They said "no". I asked "what if it irritates her?". They said "my dogs have them and they seem fine".

I said "I'm sorry I can't have a chip installed underneath her skin, I don't know if it will irritate her and she can't communicate with me". I took my cat and left the clinic.

It creeped me out. The clinic. It seemed like a war on cats. A mass extinction similar to the gas chambers in Nazi Germany. Only this time they are putting computer chips under their skin as a way to identify each and every one. It's like something from a crazy science fiction novel. I'm at home with my kitty and it's my first day off work in a long time. She is head butting me as I type this. She seems thankful that I didn't steal her life away.

 

[rawr]

[video=youtube;iee2TATGMyI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iee2TATGMyI[/video]