The Quest For Meaning

Consider how many people have come before and how many are here now. Philosophers, religious figures, physicists... have all sought meaning and as of yet, none has found any that works for everyone. I think the best we can do is experience life and figure out what speaks to us.
The other day I decided that lets say one day I found my own purpose and meaning as it relates to the whole of the known universe. What would that mean for me, what would it do? Currently I cant think of a single thing I would not eventually get bored with over time. Finding the purpose, meaning or both would probably end me in short order with me dying from boredom. Really kind of a wake up call.
So this is what I believe life is about. You are here 1) to experience and 2) to have what fun you can find.
 
Ren said:
fear of death,
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For the majority, the role of the fear of death plays on our thoughts and behavior is under-estimated. It is there. Burried under life experience and coping mechanisms. If we put on our spelunking gear and go into ourselves we will stumble upon all kinds of fears that have been with us since we were chewed out of the womb. (Or however you came out; I was chewed out... by some kind of toothless monster) Those fears, in MOST people (I say most so as not to offend the self proclaimed fearless among us) direct our lives. When we start to explore those fears we learn we can let them go, or at the very least, gain enough awareness of their influence to counter act them in a healthy way. The fear of death sits at the core of "most" (all) of us. Just like the other fears, such as rejection, abandonment, separation etc, the fear of death can be surrendered. It is extremely difficult due to everything that we have learned, believed and think we know about life being encased in it. To surrender the fear of death means to let go of everything as we know it. It requires total trust that all will be well if we stop clinging and let go. Some would call that faith, but I'm going to leave religion out of this because it's not required. (Though some people may (will) become religious or spiritual after such an adventure) Once the fear of death is genuinely released, our true purpose is revealed. It most likely (will) involve love in some form, as a way of being. Then... equanimity. Then... Some of us are humbled when we realize how bad we suck at fulfilling our purpose... Some will continue trying to perfect and fulfill that purpose experiencing mistakes along the way and others may say it's too hard and smoke meth instead. The choice is yours...

Well, that's that... Carry on.
 
Milktoast Bandit said:
For the majority, the role of the fear of death plays on our thoughts and behavior is under-estimated. It is there. Burried under life experience and coping mechanisms. If we put on our spelunking gear and go into ourselves we will stumble upon all kinds of fears that have been with us since we were chewed out of the womb. (Or however you came out; I was chewed out... by some kind of toothless monster) Those fears, in MOST people (I say most so as not to offend the self proclaimed fearless among us) direct our lives. When we start to explore those fears we learn we can let them go, or at the very least, gain enough awareness of their influence to counter act them in a healthy way. The fear of death sits at the core of "most" (all) of us. Just like the other fears, such as rejection, abandonment, separation etc, the fear of death can be surrendered. It is extremely difficult due to everything that we have learned, believed and think we know about life being encased in it. To surrender the fear of death means to let go of everything as we know it. It requires total trust that all will be well if we stop clinging and let go. Some would call that faith, but I'm going to leave religion out of this because it's not required. (Though some people may (will) become religious or spiritual after such an adventure) Once the fear of death is genuinely released, our true purpose is revealed. It most likely (will) involve love in some form, as a way of being. Then... equanimity. Then... Some of us are humbled when we realize how bad we suck at fulfilling our purpose... Some will continue trying to perfect and fulfill that purpose experiencing mistakes along the way and others may say it's too hard and smoke meth instead. The choice is yours...

Well, that's that... Carry on.
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Perfect :)
 
Milktoast Bandit said:
For the majority, the role of the fear of death plays on our thoughts and behavior is under-estimated. It is there. Burried under life experience and coping mechanisms. If we put on our spelunking gear and go into ourselves we will stumble upon all kinds of fears that have been with us since we were chewed out of the womb. (Or however you came out; I was chewed out... by some kind of toothless monster) Those fears, in MOST people (I say most so as not to offend the self proclaimed fearless among us) direct our lives. When we start to explore those fears we learn we can let them go, or at the very least, gain enough awareness of their influence to counter act them in a healthy way. The fear of death sits at the core of "most" (all) of us. Just like the other fears, such as rejection, abandonment, separation etc, the fear of death can be surrendered. It is extremely difficult due to everything that we have learned, believed and think we know about life being encased in it. To surrender the fear of death means to let go of everything as we know it. It requires total trust that all will be well if we stop clinging and let go. Some would call that faith, but I'm going to leave religion out of this because it's not required. (Though some people may (will) become religious or spiritual after such an adventure) Once the fear of death is genuinely released, our true purpose is revealed. It most likely (will) involve love in some form, as a way of being. Then... equanimity. Then... Some of us are humbled when we realize how bad we suck at fulfilling our purpose... Some will continue trying to perfect and fulfill that purpose experiencing mistakes along the way and others may say it's too hard and smoke meth instead. The choice is yours...

Well, that's that... Carry on.
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Alot of this is hard to follow. But the end point you are trying to make is correct. The fear of death rules most people. In the end though you cant avoid it. Either you die on day 1 or year 100, death is your promise. To live ones life in the fear of the inevitable then seems tragic and irrational.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Alot of this is hard to follow. But the end point you are trying to make is correct. The fear of death rules most people. In the end though you cant avoid it. Either you die on day 1 or year 100, death is your promise. To live ones life in the fear of the inevitable then seems tragic and irrational.
Click to expand...

I can't follow this, but if I have to give sounds to symbols, make rules for what those symbols sound like when they are beside each other, break them up into little clusters of symbols, apply meaning to each little cluster of symbols and put them in a string of clusters of symbols that may or may not mean something more than the individual clusters themselves; (Surely I don't, right? Nah, thats meaningless) I think the message you are attempting to convey could possibly be along the lines of:

So you're takin' better care of your body
Becoming more aware of your body.
Responding to your body's needs.
Everything you hear and read about diets,
Nutrition and sleeping position and detoxifying your system
And buying machines that they advertise to help you exercise.
Herbs to revitalize you if you're traumatized.
Soaps that will sanitize.
Sprays to deordorize.
Liquid to neutralize acids and pesticides.
Free weights to maximize your strength and muscle size.
Shots that will immunize.
Pills to re-energize you.

But remember that for all your pain and gain
Eventually the story ends the same...
You can quite smokin', but you're still gonna die.
Cut out your cokin', but you're still gonna die.
Eliminate everything fatty or fried,
And you get real healthy, but you're still gonna die.
Stop drinkin' booze, you're still gonna die.
Stay away from cooze, you're still gonna die.
You can cut out coffee and never get high,
But you're still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.

You're still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.
Still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.
You can even give aerobics one more try,
But when the music stops playin', you're still gonna die.
Put seat belts in your car, you're still gonna die.
Cut nicotine tar, you're still gonna die.
You can exercise that cellulite off your thigh.
Get slimmer and trimmer, but you're still gonna die.
Stop gettin' a tan, you're still gonna die.
You can search for UFO's up in the sky
They might fly you to Mars where you're still gonna die.

You're still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.
Still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.
And all the Reeboks and Nikes and Adidas you buy
You can jog up to heaven and you're still gonna die.

Drink ginseng tonics, you're still gonna die.
Try high colonics, you're still gonna die.
You can have yourself frozen and suspended in time,
But when they do thaw you out, you're still gonna die.
You can have safe sex, you're still gonna die.
You can switch to Crest, you're still gonna die.
You can get rid of stress, get a lot of rest,
Get an AIDS test, enroll in EST,
Move out west where it's sunny and dry
And you'll live to be a hundred
But you're still gonna die.

You're still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.
Still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.
So you'd better have some fun
'Fore you say bye-bye,
'Cause you're still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die

By Shel Silverstein



And you are incorrect about the end point I'm trying to make...
 
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Milktoast Bandit said:
You're still gonna die
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giphy.gif
 
Eventhorizon said:
To live ones life in the fear of the inevitable then seems tragic and irrational
Click to expand...

Or, responsible and reasonable
Or, hilarious and unstable
Or, paranoid and unnecessary
Or, normal

Fucking normies
 
Milktoast Bandit said:
I can't follow this, but if I have to give sounds to symbols, make rules for what those symbols sound like when they are beside each other, break them up into little clusters of symbols, apply meaning to each little cluster of symbols and put them in a string of clusters of symbols that may or may not mean something more than the individual clusters themselves; (Surely I don't, right? Nah, thats meaningless) I think the message you are attempting to convey could possibly be along the lines of:

So you're takin' better care of your body
Becoming more aware of your body.
Responding to your body's needs.
Everything you hear and read about diets,
Nutrition and sleeping position and detoxifying your system
And buying machines that they advertise to help you exercise.
Herbs to revitalize you if you're traumatized.
Soaps that will sanitize.
Sprays to deordorize.
Liquid to neutralize acids and pesticides.
Free weights to maximize your strength and muscle size.
Shots that will immunize.
Pills to re-energize you.

But remember that for all your pain and gain
Eventually the story ends the same...
You can quite smokin', but you're still gonna die.
Cut out your cokin', but you're still gonna die.
Eliminate everything fatty or fried,
And you get real healthy, but you're still gonna die.
Stop drinkin' booze, you're still gonna die.
Stay away from cooze, you're still gonna die.
You can cut out coffee and never get high,
But you're still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.

You're still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.
Still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.
You can even give aerobics one more try,
But when the music stops playin', you're still gonna die.
Put seat belts in your car, you're still gonna die.
Cut nicotine tar, you're still gonna die.
You can exercise that cellulite off your thigh.
Get slimmer and trimmer, but you're still gonna die.
Stop gettin' a tan, you're still gonna die.
You can search for UFO's up in the sky
They might fly you to Mars where you're still gonna die.

You're still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.
Still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.
And all the Reeboks and Nikes and Adidas you buy
You can jog up to heaven and you're still gonna die.

Drink ginseng tonics, you're still gonna die.
Try high colonics, you're still gonna die.
You can have yourself frozen and suspended in time,
But when they do thaw you out, you're still gonna die.
You can have safe sex, you're still gonna die.
You can switch to Crest, you're still gonna die.
You can get rid of stress, get a lot of rest,
Get an AIDS test, enroll in EST,
Move out west where it's sunny and dry
And you'll live to be a hundred
But you're still gonna die.

You're still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.
Still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die.
So you'd better have some fun
'Fore you say bye-bye,
'Cause you're still gonna, still gonna, still gonna die

By Shel Silverstein



And you are incorrect about the end point I'm trying to make...
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Oh I am incorrect? Thats sad, sorry about that then. I thought you had a moment of clairity in your otherwise obscure ramblings.
 
Wyote said:
Or, responsible and reasonable
Or, hilarious and unstable
Or, paranoid and unnecessary
Or, normal

Fucking normies
Click to expand...
Ummm... whatever.
 
Milktoast Bandit said:
For the majority, the role of the fear of death plays on our thoughts and behavior is under-estimated. It is there. Burried under life experience and coping mechanisms. If we put on our spelunking gear and go into ourselves we will stumble upon all kinds of fears that have been with us since we were chewed out of the womb. (Or however you came out; I was chewed out... by some kind of toothless monster) Those fears, in MOST people (I say most so as not to offend the self proclaimed fearless among us) direct our lives. When we start to explore those fears we learn we can let them go, or at the very least, gain enough awareness of their influence to counter act them in a healthy way. The fear of death sits at the core of "most" (all) of us. Just like the other fears, such as rejection, abandonment, separation etc, the fear of death can be surrendered. It is extremely difficult due to everything that we have learned, believed and think we know about life being encased in it. To surrender the fear of death means to let go of everything as we know it. It requires total trust that all will be well if we stop clinging and let go. Some would call that faith, but I'm going to leave religion out of this because it's not required. (Though some people may (will) become religious or spiritual after such an adventure) Once the fear of death is genuinely released, our true purpose is revealed. It most likely (will) involve love in some form, as a way of being. Then... equanimity. Then... Some of us are humbled when we realize how bad we suck at fulfilling our purpose... Some will continue trying to perfect and fulfill that purpose experiencing mistakes along the way and others may say it's too hard and smoke meth instead. The choice is yours...

Well, that's that... Carry on.
Click to expand...

I really enjoyed your post but I bolded the one part I wasn’t sure about. (This might come from the fact that I speak rather from a philosophical standpoint while you speak from a more theological standpoint.) How do you think the revelation of our true purpose follows from the release of our fear of death? You speak about leaving religion out of the picture but the leap from surrendering fear of death to finding a new purpose has a religious tone, like it’s a faith-based form of commitment. When you speak of this purpose, do you mean a universal higher purpose in which we all participate in our own way (love, for instance) or the fulfilling of our own individual life purpose which is somehow revealed to us as different from what we thought it was?

My impression is that in your view, the release of the fear of death brings us closer to the universal, and closer to each other in all being a ‘part’ of the universal. This would be interesting because it would go against the probably prevalent idea that everyone creates their own purpose in life, subjectively, and nothing else. I feel like the life purpose, if there is one, is more universal than that, but I’d also like to subscribe to the idea that we each have our own individual paths to follow. Maybe the answer is situated in the middle, at the intersection of a cross-shaped path – one individual and the other universal – that somehow allows us to follow both routes at the same time…
 
Yes we will all die...and there may or may not be something beyond this life we are experiencing currently.
It's fine with me either way honestly...I had to come to terms with death at a relatively early adult age working on the ambulance...you get to see death and pain and dying from some pretty heavy angles.
My younger brother worked in the field until he had a particularly nasty car crash and couldn't deal, so he became a dispatcher instead.
I find the human connection makes things more meaningful for me personally...as this is a hyper-subjective topic.
For example, being here in the hospital is because I was in terrible physical pain, not because I was scared to die...either there is more or we blink out and won't know it.
Or I guess some think they will be rewarded or punished by some grand deity...which I find bizarre personally...create us to worship you for creating us and then if we don't because we were born ignorant you torture us for eternity?
I find that nonsensical and downright petty.
IMHO we search for meaning because our brains are programmed as such...your right brain which is more subconscious sees meaning in symbols and subtlety, but is mainly ruled over by our left brain which is more cognizant and logical...there are some interesting theories about how our brain hemispheres once were not so communicative perhaps...that the "voice" of God was that bridge being formed but lacking total connectivity yet...then, they speculate we were all more right brained and viewed the world through more symbolism and intuition.
Whereas now, the left has made the right it's bitch in many ways...which would account for some of the cognitive dissonance so prevalent nowadays.

Back to my point about people being meaningful....personally for me, it's those I hold dear in my life that give it more meaning than some missing esoteric reason...though it is fun to explore. ;)
I find meaning in the connections I make through commonality and love more so than in any purpose or vocation.
I did find a sense of purpose in my own vocational exploits...but never thought that that was all there was to life.
My Son...my SO...my family and acquaintances give me more meaning than any actions I've taken thus far and if I died today I wouldn't be any more upset (if still aware) then if it were 50 years from now (let's hope it's not so long lol).
The people who I have loved, hated, helped, or hindered are the sculptors of meaning for me.
Sure you can find meaning without others...like I said, it so incredibly subjective...but it is those other points of view that help you understand some semblance of a "meaning" no matter how introverted you are currently.
Death is emotionally painful for those that lose the ones they love or care about - why?
Even a snuggle from your cat gives you meaning to continue on through the BS that we call "life".
Why?
Fear of being all alone?
That doesn't apply to all...so it must be something else on a deeper level.
IMHO we are hardwired to search for meaning...I'm sure you've heard the saying that "we are the universe experiencing and learning about itself" we are but the vessel to have that experience that adds to the grand knowledge underlying it all.
Or perhaps we do just blink out...I find it personally sad that so many live lives based on fear...fear of death, the unknown, the lack of meaning - why must there be a reason or meaning?
Maybe we are as we are the same way a rose or a cloud forms and then dissipates...just here to exist.
There may be no purpose other than the purpose we create ourselves...but in a way...what greater purpose is there than to complete ones existence even if you never feel you've personally completed some greater "mission" or found true personal purpose....maybe there isn't one but to just exist as anything does?
Why must we as humans have a greater purpose than anything else in the world?
That's just our ego talking.

Honestly, when my heart almost stopped a few years back, what I thought could be my final thoughts were of those I loved...nothing else...material things mean a bunch of jack shit to me.
Even as an introvert, it was the connections to others that shone through as most meaningful to me.

Sorry there was a bit of rambling there...lol.
And so I say with deep personal meaning, much love and thanks to you all for being a part of this strange existence!
 
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I have a more day-to-day lifestyle, I don't really worry about the big picture. Today my mother's anger issues are so intense that when I said good morning she warned me not to come near her although she at least had the courtesy to tell me that I haven't done anything wrong. Although as the day goes on and I am holed up in my room I am getting hungry. I might see if I can quietly slip out to the pub for something to eat. I don't really have any drama-free days in my life, so I just take each day as it comes.
 
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