The sad side of America

If you own an abandoned house well it would probably be in bad condition so you would have to bring it up to code to make it any kind of money off of it. Which costs a lot of money money many people don't have. I think that there should be option for free demolition.

No. If someone owns it, they should be allowed to have it in whatever state they want. The Government should not interfere with property rights.

What's the reason for that one?
Most people fear the police because the police have shown to be excessively violent. Having a home grown police force means that they likely grew up together know each others parents and friends, and are more likely to be informal about the law.

Here in Australia the police are informal as often as possible and it creates respect and a lot more obedience to police suggestions than appears in the US.

That would probably open up a black market for bullets.
True, but the IRS would be more harsh than the DEA.

I like your plan but I think it needs some tinkering.
:mlight:
Where?



I also agree with the Education System. That needs a complete restructuring and overhaul.
 
Why are they not interested in getting an education though? and why do they have the attitude they have?
That's the question we need to find the answer to.

They have the attitude because they feel that school is a waste of time. They're taught by society and their neighborhood culture that they aren't going to make it anyway. School is just a waste of time because they'll never escape the 'hood.
 
Aww, babycakes I'm so glad you see the dark side of my country. Seriously, I thought those rose tinted glasses of yours were stopping you from seeing the run-down-America of the 21st century. But I see, you've finally seen the truth.
 
I truly love America and think it is great. However today my eyes opened to a side of America I have never seen before. I saw a chocking documentary called Louis Theroux: Killadelphia. It was very saddening and pitiful to see the inhabitant's harsh reality, almost an antisociety.

In North Philly there are blocks that literally have the look of a war zone, with whole rows of housing turned over to drug dens, ghostly addicts wandering about, and dealers on street corners round the clock. With the drugs come homicides and no one is willing to cooperate with the cops even if they have wittnessed something because their number one rule is 'never snitch'.

Here is a clip from the documentary:

[YOUTUBE]IYLepQQNQCU[/YOUTUBE]

I understand that it is not an easy issue but my question is: do you think it it can be solved or at least improved. If so, how?

Ehrm, I don't exactly see what's shocking here...It's just a ghetto. It can be fixed if people cared enough to do it. They don't. Or they don't know. Honestly, I just don't think they care.

Why are they not interested in getting an education though? and why do they have the attitude they have?

Your group teaches you that everybody hates you except the society your a part of, the society your a part of sells drugs and doesn't believe in education: "You don't get out of the hood, what's the point?" (although that's not true, my dad got out via the military)

Anyway. Wow. I'm actually very frustrated (not at you though) and my post is coming off as very unclear. I just don't understand how (white?) people have not seen this. It's almost relieving in a way, at least it shows that they don't know; not that they don't care.
 
That's the question we need to find the answer to.

They have the attitude because they feel that school is a waste of time. They're taught by society and their neighborhood culture that they aren't going to make it anyway. School is just a waste of time because they'll never escape the 'hood.
I spent some of my childhood in a coal mining town in Wyoming. Education was not highly valued there either because it was expected you would go work in the mine. Kids who expressed interest in becoming something like a veterinarian might get derided for it. Then there is little or no external support for making such a decision. A person could certainly just hit the road and find a community college or state school that they could pay for while working and attending, but the external forces tend to shape the social outcomes and few make decisions outside of society's expectation of them. That particular area was by no means as extreme as the inner city, but it is easy to take for granted the kinds of influences that shape us.

There are also few things more irritating than being given false hope, or being in an environment that constantly reminds you of what is off limits. It distorts self-concept. I am really interested in the potential of more online learning opportunities for people, although that does require computer access. Community colleges are also fantastic institutions that tend to be cheap and address the needs of specific communities. They adapt to needs based on scheduling classes for students who have jobs and/or children, providing day care for children while parents are in classes, having course offerings that can produce jobs in the community, etc. People need proof that their efforts to become educated have a tangible payoff.
 
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I know about it. And I care intensely.

Not for the gangbangers, or thugs... but for the special few, the Intuitive who could be aiding the world, or me, but can't get out because of their society.

INFJ, INFP, ENFJ, ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTP's all of these special people.
 
People need proof that their efforts to become education have a tangible payoff.
This sentence is exactly what is needed.
 
I second the education bit. It seems to be creating lots of trouble down the road. We need some future-oriented thinkers to fix things up (aka mushroom cloud and subsequent bob the buider marathon session)

I especially find myself very perturbed by the foreign language programs. I know they aren't part of core knowledge, but I still think they should be taught as a language, and not another thing to put on your report card. :m133:
 
I think that's one of the keys. And I'm not only talking about the system, I'm also talking about the teachers specifically.

Ok I was going to write a brief response to this post but it turned into a rant the education system pisses me off I could go on forever.


I've thought about this for a while I think the fact the teachers are payed shit is indicative of a wider economic problem. Solve the problems of the cost of living or the decline of real wages, the national debt that would be a start. There is also the screwed up US budget, why not take some money out of military expenditure, or whatever else and funnel it into the education system?

I think thing like the the yearly standardized testing system should be reformed. Teaching to the test is not going to make kids wanna learn. But there is a real need to measure the effectiveness of schools. If I were the president this is what I would do. First of all give biannual standardized tests to the nations schools, if there is school who gets an especially low rating conduct a survey at the school, of teachers, students, admins. off., what have you. That would probably be the best way to figure out what the problem with the school really is and then act to solve it.

It is important to note that in my plan standardized tests would not be put on a kids permanent record, affect the amount of funding a school gets, what is taught at the school, and should measure only essential knowledge.

I also think that we should change the way we educate teachers.

I don't know much about the current system but it seems to inadequately prepare teachers for the practicalities of the classroom. They should teach things like how to keep a classroom under control, and how speak in public, how to make lessons interesting. I think more people would be willing to become teachers if they felt prepared on the first day of school.

Lastly I think we should stop underestimating our nations kids. I feel like a got "education light" when I was in primary school high school etc. For example I picked up a grammar book the other day while I was flipping through it I thought to myself... "Wow I was only ever taught about a quarter of this in school." To give another example in my state they don't start teaching kids foreign language until they are thirteen. Can anyone point out the problem with that one?


:m159:
 
Ehrm, I don't exactly see what's shocking here...It's just a ghetto. It can be fixed if people cared enough to do it. They don't. Or they don't know. Honestly, I just don't think they care.



Your group teaches you that everybody hates you except the society your a part of, the society your a part of sells drugs and doesn't believe in education: "You don't get out of the hood, what's the point?" (although that's not true, my dad got out via the military)

Anyway. Wow. I'm actually very frustrated (not at you though) and my post is coming off as very unclear. I just don't understand how (white?) people have not seen this. It's almost relieving in a way, at least it shows that they don't know; not that they don't care.


Ive seen it, im white and i do care...but what the hell can i do about it? Dont take that as the cop out it sounds like...but tell me what can I do about it? I am one white woman...one...what can I do?
 
The issue with solving things like this is that it is difficult to pinpoint exactly what would solve the problem.

One of the biggest problems with the educational systems in places like that is that the teachers end up raising the kids to a degree. The parents are often not very involved in the kids life, either because they are financially unstable or because they have a social problem, such as drug, alcohol, or other addiction or are involved in a gang or something like that. The kids are sent to school not for education, but because it's somewhere for them to be shipped off to for the day -- like a daycare. Education takes a backseat to just taking care of them and keeping them "in line" and all that. Plus, those education systems don't tend to get the funding needed to take care of the large amount of kids they have. The result -- poor education.

And as for law enforcement and problems -- in areas like that, the black market is law. It's so easy to find things like drugs and whatnot. And no one snitches, because no one wants to get cut off. It doesn't matter where the police comes from; they can do very little to get to the root of the problem, which is drug culture and gangs. It's not just a bunch of people being violent; it's organized, and because of that, it's difficult to control. It would be one thing if it was just a poor area mislead by violence, but too often drug addiction plays a huge role and too many members of that community are involved in the problem.

So where do you start? One of the biggest problems is that not enough of the people there want to make the effort to change the life they've become accustom to or have grown dependent on. The ones that do want to change it don't know how.

To assume there's an easy-to-do solution is simplistic. The issue is complex -- even if we could pin-point what was "wrong," implementing that change would be difficult and would involve a much greater scale.
 
I second the education bit. It seems to be creating lots of trouble down the road. We need some future-oriented thinkers to fix things up (aka mushroom cloud and subsequent bob the buider marathon session)

I especially find myself very perturbed by the foreign language programs. I know they aren't part of core knowledge, but I still think they should be taught as a language, and not another thing to put on your report card. :m133:


I too find our education system lacking...extremely...Teachers in our country are one of the lowest paying professions (I mean professions as in one needs to take a bunch of college courses just to do the job) THeir income hardly covers what it costs to educate our educators...ITs sad when kids look more up to people like, Angelina Jolie, Mylee Cyrus...Britany Spears...and not their teachers...
 
No. If someone owns it, they should be allowed to have it in whatever state they want. The Government should not interfere with property rights.


It seems a bit incomplete is all. Healthcare, gun control, housing, and an out of control police force, are all relevant issues but there are many more which contribute to the problem.

I was specifically thinking of the provision on bullet control. Other countries can get by with out it because they have more of a focus on social reform. Would it even be necessary if we include the social reforms? And if were to be put into place there should also be a system to curtail the potential black market that would arise from that.

I am still actively think about it.

It makes me go hmmmmmm
 
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That's the question we need to find the answer to.

They have the attitude because they feel that school is a waste of time. They're taught by society and their neighborhood culture that they aren't going to make it anyway. School is just a waste of time because they'll never escape the 'hood.

Aw it is just so sad that they don't have any hope :/ I'm also wondering where the parents are in all of this!!!

Aww, babycakes I'm so glad you see the dark side of my country. Seriously, I thought those rose tinted glasses of yours were stopping you from seeing the run-down-America of the 21st century. But I see, you've finally seen the truth.

I am fully capable and aware of both sides now babes. I'm glad I could make you proud ^^

Ehrm, I don't exactly see what's shocking here...It's just a ghetto. It can be fixed if people cared enough to do it. They don't. Or they don't know. Honestly, I just don't think they care.

Your group teaches you that everybody hates you except the society your a part of, the society your a part of sells drugs and doesn't believe in education: "You don't get out of the hood, what's the point?" (although that's not true, my dad got out via the military)

Anyway. Wow. I'm actually very frustrated (not at you though) and my post is coming off as very unclear. I just don't understand how (white?) people have not seen this. It's almost relieving in a way, at least it shows that they don't know; not that they don't care.

I had no idea that the situation was that bad in certain places. I am not from America so I cannot speak for them. However I would presume that on an individual basis even if you do care, it is very hard to help. Don't feel frustrated about it, I found your post very clear actually. You say just a ghetto, but I must admit we don't have those in Sweden. We have ghettos of our own that are worse of compared to the rest but never ever to that extent.
 
Aw it is just so sad that they don't have any hope :/ I'm also wondering where the parents are in all of this!!!
The sad thing is the parents are in the exact same situation as the kids and just as apathetic about the benefits from education (i speak generally, not everyone)
 
Many of the kids that lack motivation to finish school also lack a comfortable homelife and/or parents.

There are lots of single parent homes in the U.S.
Not to say that all of these are broken or struggling, but it's possible.
 
Ive seen it, im white and i do care...but what the hell can i do about it? Dont take that as the cop out it sounds like...but tell me what can I do about it? I am one white woman...one...what can I do?

Raise money, advocate, volunteer, and force attention towards inner city areas. Usually getting to the kids is the best prospect of success. You can only do so much as one person, but if you can attract dozens to the cause, that will be better than nothing

Aw it is just so sad that they don't have any hope :/ I'm also wondering where the parents are in all of this!!!



I am fully capable and aware of both sides now babes. I'm glad I could make you proud ^^



I had no idea that the situation was that bad in certain places. I am not from America so I cannot speak for them. However I would presume that on an individual basis even if you do care, it is very hard to help. Don't feel frustrated about it, I found your post very clear actually. You say just a ghetto, but I must admit we don't have those in Sweden. We have ghettos of our own that are worse of compared to the rest but never ever to that extent.

I'm sorry, I have to admit I was a bit off-putting in my post by assuming that you 'should' know about this situation. Once again, I'm sorry. It's just a really bad situation that I wish more people would care about.
 
Ok I was going to write a brief response to this post but it turned into a rant the education system pisses me off I could go on forever.


I've thought about this for a while I think the fact the teachers are payed shit is indicative of a wider economic problem. Solve the problems of the cost of living or the decline of real wages, the national debt that would be a start. There is also the screwed up US budget, why not take some money out of military expenditure, or whatever else and funnel it into the education system?

Yeah the low salary is part of the problem. If the salaries were higher, I'm sure there would be more motivation for others who love teaching to actually get into it. Increasing salaries alone won't do it, that's for sure. But its part of it. Why not pay teachers more and pay, for example, professional athletes and actors/actresses less?

I think thing like the the yearly standardized testing system should be reformed. Teaching to the test is not going to make kids wanna learn. But there is a real need to measure the effectiveness of schools. If I were the president this is what I would do. First of all give biannual standardized tests to the nations schools, if there is school who gets an especially low rating conduct a survey at the school, of teachers, students, admins. off., what have you. That would probably be the best way to figure out what the problem with the school really is and then act to solve it.

Standardized testing is definitely overrated and needs to be changed in many ways. You're right, teaching to the test often takes away the love that children have for learning. Children love to learn believe it or not. They're probably the most curious group of the population. But focusing so much getting them into the habit of having to get high grades all the time and training them to do well on these exams basically screws up the whole point of learning. The point of learning is to actually learn and be able to understand, apply, evaluate things on a higher thinking level, not just to be able to recall information for some state exam. Getting a high grade on these exams tells you little about how intelligent the student is. What it does tell you is how well trained the student is and how good of a test-taker they are. And that's exactly what the system is doing at this point: training children to become good test takers instead of actually educating them.

It is important to note that in my plan standardized tests would not be put on a kids permanent record, affect the amount of funding a school gets, what is taught at the school, and should measure only essential knowledge.

I like that idea. And you can see how the No Child Left Behind Act goes against your ideas completely. This is why the system is so screwed. The schools that get higher grades get more funding. The schools that don't get high grades, even if they improve a lot, do not get extra funds. It's sad.

I also think that we should change the way we educate teachers.

I don't know much about the current system but it seems to inadequately prepare teachers for the practicalities of the classroom. They should teach things like how to keep a classroom under control, and how speak in public, how to make lessons interesting. I think more people would be willing to become teachers if they felt prepared on the first day of school.

I agree with you. The teacher is one of the five main components of education, I think its safe to say that teachers are the most important component. Preparing teachers successfully = having teachers educate their students effectively = more intelligent citizens. The main problem with teacher preparation programs is that colleges and universities that provide this teacher preparation don't put enough funding into these programs. They tend to put a large majority of their funding into programs that relate to science and things like that. Another problem with teacher prep programs is that they don't give prospective teachers enough hands on experience before they actually become teachers. Sometimes these programs focus too much on educational theory and are not practical enough to give you a real sense of what its really like in the classroom.

Lastly I think we should stop underestimating our nations kids. I feel like a got "education light" when I was in primary school high school etc. For example I picked up a grammar book the other day while I was flipping through it I thought to myself... "Wow I was only ever taught about a quarter of this in school."

That's so true. The only students in New York that are really taught grammar in depth are ESL students. I also realized that I don't know a lot of grammar. I mean I know how to use it intuitively but I don't know it formally.

To give another example in my state they don't start teaching kids foreign language until they are thirteen. Can anyone point out the problem with that one?

In many countries, they're taught foreign languages when they start elementary school. We are so behind here. Second language acquisition starts slowing down around 13. It should start at a very young age, and research shows that people who learn more than one language at a young age have better meta linguistic awareness than others.
 
Raise money, advocate, volunteer, and force attention towards inner city areas. Usually getting to the kids is the best prospect of success. You can only do so much as one person, but if you can attract dozens to the cause, that will be better than nothing

I have done all of this...I have canvassed, donated, advocated...I have...but you see, sad as it is to say, the number of us that care are vastly dwarfed by those who live blissfully ignorant, or just don't care at all. As for the children...i volunteer in the schools...teach music...do what I can...I do...
 
In my country there is a lot of poverty in post industrial areas where once there was a proud culture of people working hard to provide for their families and a strong sense of community as everyone knew each other and worked together. Crime was relatively low for these reasons. As machines took over their jobs or industry bankrupted or moved on to where there is cheaper labour, people found themselves without work. There simply wasn't any jobs to replace the old ones. People usually stayed in the area because that was their home, their community and because they didn't know any other life. Also the industry didn't die overnight and people would compete for what little work was left.

Education had never been part of the culture in these areas because it was always expected that people would go into the local industries like the previous generations of their families had. Without work people found themselves feeling helpless and despair soon set in. They soon turned to drink. Drinking had always played a social role as people would have a drink after work or after the football on a saturday night, but now they found they had nothing to fill their time except drinking.

Unfortunately the heavy drinking combined with the despair and anger over their hopeless situation lead to violence and sometimes domestic abuse. Marriages broke up under the pressure and the family bond became broken. A generation of young boys grew up without a male role model showing them how they should act as a man. Education was still not part of the culture as it never had been. The young grew up beleiving that they had no prospect in life and a culture of dependancy on government assistance was all they had grown up to know. They learnt how their fathers and grandfathers had once worked in the industry and this made them feel even more worthless.

Heroin became popular because it offered people an escape from reality. Unfortunatly this lead to crime as people had to steal to get money to pay for the drugs. People were sharing needles to save money so diseases of the blood spread like HIV and Hepatitus.

Young women knew that they would get government assistance if they had a child so many aimed to get pregnant as this offered them some chance of a future. They would get pregnant and be provided with housing and financial assistance. Usually the father would not stick around and the child would then grow up in poverty.

Apparently some post industrial areas in Europe are solving these problems better than others. The ones in my country are not doing so well. The housing in these areas becomes really run down and the way the government has dealt with this is to clear the slums by knocking them all down, then building new housing. The problem is that the companies building the housing are private companies so ultimately they care more about their profit margin then they do about providing a good product. The housing was of minimum build quality, poor materials and workmanship and they were not maintained properly so they have fallen into a terrible state.

It seems to be a common problem. So much of people's self esteem seems to be tied up in their ability to work and stand on their own two feet. The more education given to children the more opportunities they have. If people are educated and in work they tend to have stable lives and stable relationships.

One problem is that many of the people making the big decisions at national level are either rich or are in the employ of the rich. They are very out of touch and not making decisions on the behalf of the broken communities.
 
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