The single life

[say what]

No, that's all incidential, I was just mentioning Bacon because I was reading him, I was less interested in discussing the gender wars or battle of the sexes, its an interesting tangent for some but I'm not that interested in it these days. I'm not being dismissive, just being honest about it.

I guess I missed what you were intending to talk about in this thread. The quote suggests to me that family can be a burden and/or stunt someone's growth professionally. To me, this can't be discussed in isolation of male/female gender roles and societal implications and pressures. Sorry to bring that in, perhaps you could be more clear what you're thinking about this topic.

 

[Lark]

Yes, but the attachment styles are almost faulty now. Look at the millenials - they have been over parented and many suggest that they are ill-equipped for an independent lifestyle. But this is about parenting, rather than whether or not having a family impacts your ability to be 'successful' or provide innovations through your work.

I do think that economic changes (especially when you consider the cost of higher education, and the debt students have) impact what people want out of a relationship, but it's a major factor in whether or not people can even have relationships. As someone in their 30s with debt from higher education, my only option is to continue on through to graduate and hopefully gain a decent income post-graduation. However, that decent income will require a lot of hard work and sacrifice. I might want a family, but I don't have a choice to have a family if I want to be able to provide for them. This then leads into the higher incidents of crises - we're overworked, underpaid, and stressed out.

I think the choice to have a family now is much more complicated than a few generations ago- especially because of the economics.

Well I think that all decisions are going to dictated by internal and external pressures, in reality its always a combination of the two at work at any time, although I'm inclined, personally, to think that its often more the internal pressures which trumph the external ones, social psychology (and I think all psychology is social really) rather than sociology.

If someone has a secure attachment style, then they are more likely to engage in that sort of moral or psychological calculation and decision making about making or breaking relationships as a consequence of economics.

Over parenting may result in insecure attachment styles but I'm not sure whether that's possible, over parenting would at least involve attention and the other sorts of interaction necessary to develop security, self-soothing, self-regulation etc. Parenting styles would be part of the social "scaffolding" that I was thinking about but I dont know that many people who consciously and deliberatively seek to engage in parenting towards are particular attachment style when they have kids. They just want to care for them and be "good enough parents" and usually that's sufficient.

Although there's a hell of a lot of distractions for parents and children which I think will screw with this process, then there's additives and drugs in the food, water etc. which there havent been years ago, all of which I'd expect to effect organic developmental processes too.

Consider the world of yester year without TV, with commercial breaks every couple minutes, without radio, with few books etc. etc. your only focus would be your relationships and your children would be a big part of that, perhaps for subsistence purposes and survival odds even. I think those are all big factors in attachment and attachment is a big part in maturation rates and speeds, let alone crisis.

 

[jimtaylor]

Yes I do think that the single life has a lot to be recommended by, for both men and women. There are some people who are just better off being single, doing what they love and they are happier that way. They don’t have to do it completely alone and can have close relationships, friendships, etc… but not the prototypical family life. I am an example of that right now.

When my work gives me 24 hour notice that I need to go out of town for two weeks, I don’t have to answer or explain it to anybody. I just pack up and go. If I want to learn something and spend my evenings doing that instead of trying to keep a relationship alive, I can. About a month ago, I spent every evening for almost an entire week learning how to country dance and ballroom dance. (Still suck, sadly) This week I am making a full suit of samurai amour out of eva foam. Next week, I am spending three whole days at Fantasy Con. I enjoy that freedom. I can’t typically have that type of freedom and hope to keep a relationship healthy.

It can be lonely but I’ve never felt lonelier than when I was in a relationship and trust me I’ve tried more than I probably should have to be in a relationship. It’s nothing against anyone who does enjoy relationships and I have friends who tell me all the time that they see me settling down, getting married in a church and having 2 ½ kids. I don’t see it. I see myself as a pretentious jerk at a coffee shop wearing a turtle neck sweater drinking an overly expensive coffee while making remarks about some book. ^_^

Of course this can change as my life experiences change. You never know for sure, it might just take that one right person to make the thought of getting married not seem so overwhelmingly restrictive. Or make the idea of having kids not being so fucking scary because the last thing you want to do is be a shitty parent which scares the living hell out of me.

 

[Lark]

I guess I missed what you were intending to talk about in this thread. The quote suggests to me that family can be a burden and/or stunt someone's growth professionally. To me, this can't be discussed in isolation of male/female gender roles and societal implications and pressures. Sorry to bring that in, perhaps you could be more clear what you're thinking about this topic.

Sure.

Bacon was suggesting that family life is a priority, if that's your priority you cant have others, I dont think its been evenly divided between men and women historically or presently but he's not an example of a male chauvinist or anything, perhaps the contrary actually because he's recognised its importance at all.

I wasnt being dismissive like I say, I was posing an individual rather than a sex/gendered question.

 

[54192&#cmy]

I'm not saying all men get to choose- but I don't think there's the push for men to have children during their 'ripe' years. I'm not saying it's easier or hard for men or women, I'm just saying that I think there are different demands when it comes to when you have your children, and if you choose to have children.

Well of course there is that is the difference in the sexes. lol I felt the pressure from a young age to have children because of my church. And because I am the last son in my family to pass on our name. If I had no son my last name was lost. I understand the pressure and desire.