The work of Satan...

I don't think I can say it better than this:

[video=youtube_share;S_DQUAuNUvw]http://youtu.be/S_DQUAuNUvw[/video]
 
Satya said:
You make a fine Apologist.

However, I ascribe the same value to the Bible that I ascribe to the legend of Camelot. Both stories are inspired by true historical events, but as the story has been retold it has been expanded and exaggerated. The earliest of the Gospels was written over a hundred years after Jesus would have been hung from the cross and the issue with stories told by mouth is they happen to change a little every time they are retold.

It's interesting though that you think being able to verify some of the historical events in the Bible somehow lends credibility to the supernatural aspects. That is like saying that archeologists have found that there was a Roman soldier in the England area who was likely the inspiration for King Author, so that proves he pulled a magical sword from a lake.

An interesting thing about cultural myths...they are almost always inspired by some true events.
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Ha apologist sounds right :P, you make a good debate also my friend
i understand you have read many comparable stories to biblical literature in similarity. but id hope to take a step now into the variables.
I myself am a christian, but i also am a Maori from New Zealand and have derived the larger portion of my information from actual experience and scientific observation and
experimentation this simply means that I'm agreeing with you as we go along :) .just so you know.

OK - here is a few portions of information about biblical literature

*The bible is not 1 book but 66 books in whole, the first written book by either Joseph or Moses (I'm not sure exactly)
*Also understanding the context correctly it seems that each book was written from an individuals understanding of his/her observations of experience OPENLY
"when reading each book you,ll see the authors of each book writing clearly in a way that signifies honesty, we understand this by observing the fullness of expression often being described by it's authors, an example here is "David" defining not his positive traits foremost, but instead his iniquity's from which can be learn t from.
*If you search any of the historical events Excluding: those with symbolic or spiritual Influence, You'll find it co-incides with archeological discovery.
another example: is the "God splitting the Sea in two with Moses" Archaeologists have searched the area said to be the location of the previous situation and found several Chariot Wheels, Bones etc as you would expect. Studies from these same individuals indicated that during the times of Moses, that the water would indeed have been rising and falling according to its positioning, (we know this today as the tides of the times, The moon and underlying foundations beneath the waterline. "Co-incident"? i dunno :P
*another distinction is "Jesus" The Dominating Figure of christian belief, and is said to be a GOD by content. unique in its own right but more co=incidently
we just happened to make the prime position in time beginning BC, and AD co-incidentally Jesus, further more the co-incident that occured to me is "History"
when broken down Sits at "His Story" :) :P

sorry i don't often get long on the computer as i don't own one of my own lol, I'm just here at the library or computer places etc.
so I'll often be restricted in expressing the full perspective I'm coming from

it's all good though - :)
 
Divine Wannabee said:
Ha apologist sounds right :P, you make a good debate also my friend
i understand you have read many comparable stories to biblical literature in similarity. but id hope to take a step now into the variables.
I myself am a christian, but i also am a Maori from New Zealand and have derived the larger portion of my information from actual experience and scientific observation and
experimentation this simply means that I'm agreeing with you as we go along :) .just so you know.

OK - here is a few portions of information about biblical literature

*The bible is not 1 book but 66 books in whole, the first written book by either Joseph or Moses (I'm not sure exactly)
*Also understanding the context correctly it seems that each book was written from an individuals understanding of his/her observations of experience OPENLY
"when reading each book you,ll see the authors of each book writing clearly in a way that signifies honesty, we understand this by observing the fullness of expression often being described by it's authors, an example here is "David" defining not his positive traits foremost, but instead his iniquity's from which can be learn t from.
*If you search any of the historical events Excluding: those with symbolic or spiritual Influence, You'll find it co-incides with archeological discovery.
another example: is the "God splitting the Sea in two with Moses" Archaeologists have searched the area said to be the location of the previous situation and found several Chariot Wheels, Bones etc as you would expect. Studies from these same individuals indicated that during the times of Moses, that the water would indeed have been rising and falling according to its positioning, (we know this today as the tides of the times, The moon and underlying foundations beneath the waterline. "Co-incident"? i dunno :P
*another distinction is "Jesus" The Dominating Figure of christian belief, and is said to be a GOD by content. unique in its own right but more co=incidently
we just happened to make the prime position in time beginning BC, and AD co-incidentally Jesus, further more the co-incident that occured to me is "History"
when broken down Sits at "His Story" :) :P

sorry i don't often get long on the computer as i don't own one of my own lol, I'm just here at the library or computer places etc.
so I'll often be restricted in expressing the full perspective I'm coming from

it's all good though - :)
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Interesting perspective. Here are a couple videos for you to look at when you get a chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70SYwkoH_yc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q37NhrCPNo

They come from a Christian who converted to atheism when he was no longer able to post-hoc analyze his religion.

Also, when I referred to you as an "Apologist" I meant it as someone who practices Apologetics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics
 
These are the people who are primarily populating the world, now.
It's going to be something like Idiocracy in a few generations..
I have given up caring.
 
acd said:
These are the people who are primarily populating the world, now.
It's going to be something like Idiocracy in a few generations..
I have given up caring.
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Do you have to use a ladder to get on that high horse your riding?
 
Barnabas said:
you first
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I was referring to the canonical gospels. The Catholic Church has long argued that Mathew came first, but most Biblical scholars argue that Mark came before. Christian scholars tend to argue that it was written around 70 AD and other scholars argue that it was written around 100 AD.

Any who, my point is that the story was passed orally and was not written down until later. Biblical scholars argue that the later gospels were based off of Mark.
 
Barnabas said:
Do you have to use a ladder to get on that high horse your riding?
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But wouldn't God have made that ladder for her to use to get up on her high horse? Not much cheek turning going on....

Edit: I probably should say that I really just wanted to point out the irony in your post more than anything.
Goose / Gander
Pot is black / Kettle is black
so on and so forth so to speak
 
Barnabas said:
Do you have to use a ladder to get on that high horse your riding?
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A perceived sense of superiority comes from the certainty behind beliefs. It goes both ways. The Christian sees the nonbeliever as woefully ignorant and the skeptic sees the Christian as woefully ignorant.
 
Satya said:
I was referring to the canonical gospels. The Catholic Church has long argued that Mathew came first, but most Biblical scholars argue that Mark came before. Christian scholars tend to argue that it was written around 70 AD and other scholars argue that it was written around 100 AD.

Any who, my point is that the story was passed orally and was not written down until later. Biblical scholars argue that the later gospels were based off of Mark.
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Well at least you didn't talk about Q, I'd dig up some sources but I don't have access to my books at the moment. But I want to say that the first Gospel was either Matthew or Luke..... but that really doesn't give us a timeline. My point being that the Gospels aren't ridiculously far detached from the events. Close enough to be considered accurate to the events with little to no deviation.

Satya said:
A perceived sense of superiority comes from the certainty behind beliefs. It goes both ways. The Christian sees the nonbeliever as woefully ignorant and the skeptic sees the Christian as woefully ignorant.
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Tell me about it, I actually had a conversation with a friend of mine the other day about how easy it is to feel superficially superior to others. Not just to non-christians but to other Christians and friends as well. Pride comes before the fall as they say.
 
Barnabas said:
Well at least you didn't talk about Q, I'd dig up some sources but I don't have access to my books at the moment. But I want to say that the first Gospel was either Matthew or Luke..... but that really doesn't give us a timeline. My point being that the Gospels aren't ridiculously far detached from the events. Close enough to be considered accurate to the events with little to no deviation.
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I've watched stories change completely over a period of hours when retold. 50 years? Yeah, you can't win that one Barnabas.
 
Satya said:
I've watched stories change completely over a period of hours when retold. 50 years? Yeah, you can't win that one Barnabas.
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In a culture that has no sense of oral tradition yes. But not back then, when a young Jews would memorize the first five books of the old testament before they moved on to a level higher learning. Those who went higher would become a understudy to a Rabbi, where they would memorize the rest of the OT. Just because our modern culture suffers from long term memory problems doesn't mean theirs did.
 
Barnabas said:
Do you have to use a ladder to get on that high horse your riding?
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Gee whiz you are awfully clever.

Do yourself a favor and look up, "Quiverfull movement."
Furthermore, observe those associated populations that abhorr birth control.

Then perhaps take into account what ideaologies they hold in common.
Things such as, refusing to acknowledge scientific data that contradicts scripture or their beliefs.
Etc., etc., etc.!

Dios Mio! Someone like Michelle Bachmann has a legitimate shot at becoming the next president.
America at least, has an entire movement of stupid on the rise.

If that makes me snooty in your eyes, so be it... what it comes down to is frustration more than a feeling of superiority, though. Frustration because people of this mindset have a degree of say in the policies that are made. Yes. This ignorance--refusing to accept reality has an effect on the way others live their lives, the way children are educated and even the environment.

And it doesn't seem fair to me that there is a huge percentage of the population who shares these views--making uninformed decisions at the ballot--giving rise to more and more shit for brains pandering politicians who will continue to feed into the collective cesspool of unconscious.

But what can I do? On good days, I hope people will wake up and come to their senses.
On bad days, I make bad jokes about how futile caring about it even is.
 
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Apparently the smarter you are the less you reproduce. It's inevitable if that is the case. Nothing to do but accept it.
 
Satya said:
You can't prove a negative. Your statement is nonsensical.
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dont play dumb, however good you are at it.
Divine Wannabee said:
Year i get what you mean, but the FACT was 300 years ago, even though they thought they had objective evidence, "but they didnt" simple as that.
the FACT was that we could get to the moon 300 years ago or rather, it was possible, they just didnt know it.the FACT didnt change at all in "Reality"

this is a good way to look at it, "What's possible is Possible and what is impossible is impossible" that doesnt mean i know by definition what fits into these contexts .
but FACTs are FACTs

no matter how
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we are meaning the same thing. just you're trying to speak from your subjective opinion of a universal perspective.

the potential was there to create a spaceship to get to the moon 300 years ago (there are still some that argue that we never got to the moon, btw; and i've never been there personally-- ) , so why did it take 'X' years to get there from then? space, is why. space, and time. hence why a time-spanning, 'universal perspective,' is useless.

right now, my current knowledge, says we cannot get to jupiter, land, and make a colony. this moment is all i'm speaking from. i allow the option that someday we may be able to do so. 'someday' is not this moment. i'm not gonna pretend i'm a fortune teller.
 
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I asked my priest how dinosaur fossils could be millions of years old if God created the world only a few thousand years ago when I was like 10. He gave me a non-answer answer on how I shouldn't question the Bible blah, blah, blah...

My last teaching assignment was at a VERY conservative Jewish school teaching an all-girls 3rd grade class in Los Angeles. The culture was completely new to me. I couldn't wear pants, skirts had to be long, high collars, long sleeves, one piece of jewelry --I literally looked like the teacher on Little House on the Prarie as I drove by all of the tragically hip people on Robertson Blvd. :mpff: The men wouldn't shake your hand or look at you really, there were a lot of rules...

Point being was I had to strictly teach to the curriculum which did not include evolution. Well, I happened to bring in a very obvious triceratops mask on Purim (kinda like Halloween, but not really) and the girls thought it was a cool "dragon" mask :doh: Really bad choice on my part. But people who have this narrow a view on evolution do exist.
 
Sensiko said:
I asked my priest how dinosaur fossils could be millions of years old if God created the world only a few thousand years ago when I was like 10. He gave me a non-answer answer on how I shouldn't question the Bible blah, blah, blah...

My last teaching assignment was at a VERY conservative Jewish school teaching an all-girls 3rd grade class in Los Angeles. The culture was completely new to me. I couldn't wear pants, skirts had to be long, high collars, long sleeves, one piece of jewelry --I literally looked like the teacher on Little House on the Prarie as I drove by all of the tragically hip people on Robertson Blvd. :mpff: The men wouldn't shake your hand or look at you really, there were a lot of rules...

Point being was I had to strictly teach to the curriculum which did not include evolution. Well, I happened to bring in a very obvious triceratops mask on Purim (kinda like Halloween, but not really) and the girls thought it was a cool "dragon" mask :doh: Really bad choice on my part. But people who have this narrow a view on evolution do exist.
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Ahem... and I'll repeat....

[video=youtube_share;S_DQUAuNUvw]http://youtu.be/S_DQUAuNUvw[/video]
 
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