[INFJ] This will make you rage

Wyote said:
There are no easy solutions, but the consensus seems to be that change of some kind must happen.
I think it's vital that we continue to support the police force on a whole as it undergoes this transitory period, to whatever ends, who knows.



Suddenly, a Leeroy Jenkins approach to this discussion. Lol.
(I am not making fun, I appreciated this)
Click to expand...

I agree.

Also, I'd say you can call me LJ, then. But, I think that nickname is taken. @Lady Jolanda
 
Wyote said:
There are no easy solutions, but the consensus seems to be that change of some kind must happen.
I think it's vital that we continue to support the police force on a whole as it undergoes this transitory period, to whatever ends, who knows.
Click to expand...
Support them in what way? How do you think they want to be supported?

I think they should reform to earn trust in their communities. And if they won't, then Congress, as our representatives, should compel them with legislation. I am not sure that police across US will willingly enter any major transition period. Maybe they'll bandage it up with a few extra hours of training.
 
acd said:
Support them in what way? How do you think they want to be supported?

I think they should reform to earn trust in their communities. And if they won't, then Congress, as our representatives, should compel them with legislation.
Click to expand...
I think Congress needs a reform. Heh
 
Wyote said:
There are no easy solutions, but the consensus seems to be that change of some kind must happen.
I think it's vital that we continue to support the police force on a whole as it undergoes this transitory period, to whatever ends, who knows.
Click to expand...
This is very important.

Public confidence in the police must not be allowed to collapse, because there's no practical difference between that and the legitimacy of the state itself. It's so odd hearing people talk about 'the police' as if it's some kind of third party the fate of which isn't directly tied to the nation as a whole.
 
BritNi said:
I think Congress needs a reform. Heh
Click to expand...
lol
giphy.gif

But it's the most civil means we've got and it is an election year after all!
 
acd said:
Support them in what way? How do you think they want to be supported?
Click to expand...

Police are just people and are faulty to human flaws and I think people need to empathize with that more.
imo the only way to "fix" the police "problem" is by changing the systems and equipment.
Most cops are good. Most cops are reasonable and deserve human decency until proven otherwise.
 
Wyote said:
Police are just people and are faulty to human flaws and I think people need to empathize with that more.
imo the only way to "fix" the police "problem" is by changing the systems and equipment.
Most cops are good. Most cops are reasonable and deserve human decency until proven otherwise.
Click to expand...
Half my family are police officers. I'm not coming at this as someone who can't empathize with or relate to police as people.

I agree the system needs to change. Though to be honest, my family doesn't think so. They are into that Blue Line/Lives culture. It's fucking weird but I love them.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
It's so odd hearing people talk about 'the police' as if it's some kind of third party the fate of which isn't directly tied to the nation as a whole.
Click to expand...
acd said:
Half my family are police officers.
Click to expand...

We are all sort of embedded in different narratives about a lot of different things, police being one.
I suppose it's difficult to really ascertain why all people are invested in change(to the police force), but I'm sure it's different for a lot of people as to the reasons why.
Officers have a lot of pride in their work, as they should, and people outside of that knowledge of understanding can have a difficult time engaging in empathy towards them.
Which I have a feeling is a motivating factor at some level, for many.
 
Wyote said:
We are all sort of embedded in different narratives about a lot of different things, police being one.
I suppose it's difficult to really ascertain why all people are invested in change, but I'm sure it's different for a lot of people as to the reasons why.
Officers have a lot of pride in their work, as they should, and people outside of that knowledge of understanding can have a difficult time engaging in empathy towards them.
Which I have a feeling is a motivating factor at some level, for many.
Click to expand...

I just hate that one or two bad apples ruin things for everyone.

Like ok. A bad cop killed a black guy. So, let's blame every police officer and accuse them all of being racist. It's a very bias and blind approach.

This isn't just the case with police, it applies with pretty much any group. It just takes one, then everyone else is to blame.
 
BritNi said:
I just hate that one or two bad apples ruin things for everyone.

Like ok. A bad cop killed a black guy. So, let's blame every police officer and accuse them all of being racist. It's a very bias and blind approach.

This isn't just the case with police, it applies with pretty much any group. It just takes one, then everyone else is to blame.
Click to expand...

There are definitely pockets with severe systemic problems, but it does become dangerous/incorrect when it is blanketed hate/blame
 
BritNi said:
I just hate that one or two bad apples ruin things for everyone.

Like ok. A bad cop killed a black guy. So, let's blame every police officer and accuse them all of being racist. It's a very bias and blind approach.

This isn't just the case with police, it applies with pretty much any group. It just takes one, then everyone else is to blame.
Click to expand...

It takes one, but the others tend to go along or look the other way. 3 other officers were there when Derrick Chauvin killed George Floyd. None intervened, despite onlookers begging the officer to stop. I talked to my step dad, who is an officer and he said they don't do any choke holds where he is and he didn't understand why it happened; it shouldn't have happened. But it's different for every jurisdiction. So these 3 went along. Are all 4 bad officers or are the 3 good officers who went along because it's just the way it is there and they did not know any better? They should have known better. And that goes back to better and more rigorous training with a focus on deescalation. I posted a video awhile back in this thread of an elderly man in Buffalo, NY at a protest who was shoved to the ground by an officer. The man was bleeding out of his head. Ended up in serious condition. None of the officers helped him or intervened. One tried to help the man, but another officer stopped him. Finally, the national guard helped the man. There's something very very wrong in the police culture there. Are they there to serve and protect? If so, why are you shoving elderly people to the ground when you could have easily avoided that aggression? The good ones are forced to hold ranks with the bad ones. And those are just 2 examples. Should look up what happens to officers who don't blindly follow. Doesn't go well for them. That's where the system needs to change.
 
Wyote said:
We are all sort of embedded in different narratives about a lot of different things, police being one.
I suppose it's difficult to really ascertain why all people are invested in change, but I'm sure it's different for a lot of people as to the reasons why.
Officers have a lot of pride in their work, as they should, and people outside of that knowledge of understanding can have a difficult time engaging in empathy towards them.
Which I have a feeling is a motivating factor at some level, for many.
Click to expand...
I feel like modern-day 'police culture' in the US is what one might expect to happen given the prevalence of crime and firearms, and that insisting on 'police reform' wouldn't really do much to tackle the root causes of the problem.

All the focus on policing and police methods is casting a critical eye on a symptom rather than a significant cause. Compared to most other developed countries, the US murder rate is through the fucking roof, for instance. By the end of 2019, Minneapolis and St Paul's had murder rates (>10 per 100,000) that exceeded those of Iraq, the Congo, Afghanistan, &c. This would be an order of magnitude greater than the current standard in Western Europe (around 1 per 100,000).

I don't think the US has a 'police brutality' problem as much as a 'brutality problem' in general.
 
I've been trying to become a little smarter about this but I'm only getting more confused.
Why does everything have to be so polarizing and divided among party lines?
The majority of Americans are mostly decent people and we all want everyone to feel safe and have equal opportunity. So, we might not agree on how to go about that.
But what's all the shaming about?
There's so much damage being done, relationships being hurt.
Why is that necessary?
You know what is necessary for change? Cooperation. Willingness to find common ground.
And yes, this is me venting. Admittedly, a selfish post.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
I feel like modern-day 'police culture' in the US is what one might expect to happen given the prevalence of crime and firearms, and that insisting on 'police reform' wouldn't really do much to tackle the root causes of the problem.

All the focus on policing and police methods is casting a critical eye on a symptom rather than a significant cause.
Click to expand...

Definitely. But let's not stop the train of division and distraction! This is 'murica!
 
Wyote said:
Definitely. But let's not stop the train of division and distraction! This is 'murica!
Click to expand...
Lol.

It's interesting that you mentioned the parallel to the Bush Era before.

Up until now, there were a lot of SNA (social network analysis) studies which concluded that political polarisation in the US was disproportionately a right-wing phenomenon, and its 'dog whistles' were obvious and well-defined. It's interesting to see the left now undergoing the same kind of transformation, with its own 'dog whistles' and no-compromise positions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top