thoughts on INFJ aggression

Ha, ya I know I didn't think it was. I just got all excited when I saw the picture [MENTION=3538]Arsal[/MENTION]. I thought bender was an estj. No?
 
Yeah, I reckon most people would type him as ESTP or ESTJ, but it's not quite right. Bender has a very specific vision (Ni) of the external world based on what he considers true. He looks behind images and facades and clings to the "essence" of things. (Ni) He calls people out on their bullshit and throws them into situations where they have be honest because in his view, it is the best thing for humanity (Ni+Fe) to be honest. He has anger and resentment towards the external world (Inferior Se) and how things are run, his father, "the authority". (PoLR Te). Basically, he is the poster child for the SP-wannabe INFJ.
 
Peppermint said:
This forum is mostly in denial about it. Everyone goes on about how Fe seeks harmony. In reality, it's a two edged sword.
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Those who heal, know how to kill. ;) those who know how to preserve harmony, knows very well how to destroy it. One negative uses of Fe; (It's the same as other functions)

IMO it's possible, but it's definitely a sign of something inside.
 
Agreed. I think with the ability of insight INFJs normally have, there's a huge risk for manipulation. I personally found myself being manipulative without consciously realizing it in an unhealthy relationship and had to actively avoid it. Its way too easy for most INFJs.

I've never identified with the 'meek, gentle' INFJs, but I assumed most of that is environmental factors. I'm gentle with those requiring it, but I can respond very strongly to any conflict or outside aggression directed at me or those I care about.

Aggression seems natural and necessary for the INFJ inclination to protect or defend the underdog types. I'm also aggressive about pursuing harmony. I'll be very aggressive towards anyone that threatens the harmony I've created in my life. I'd be very confused by INFJs that didn't feel that way. Its a pretty big part of INFJ motivations.
 
Arsal said:
Yeah, I reckon most people would type him as ESTP or ESTJ, but it's not quite right. Bender has a very specific vision (Ni) of the external world based on what he considers true. He looks behind images and facades and clings to the "essence" of things. (Ni) He calls people out on their bullshit and throws them into situations where they have be honest because in his view, it is the best thing for humanity (Ni+Fe) to be honest. He has anger and resentment towards the external world (Inferior Se) and how things are run, his father, "the authority". (PoLR Te). Basically, he is the poster child for the SP-wannabe INFJ.
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agreed, and this is exactly what i mean by having to look past the surface. i vaguely want to add to this, but you've already presented a compelling case and i can't think of what else to add.
 
I am very angry right now.
 
I heart John Bender...
 
Anybody can be agressive. i guess I am mostly passive agressive. Though I felt few times need to hit something/somebody...:)
 
It's very cute. The worst thing I've seen is that they could break something, but that's very rare, because INFJs are also extremely careful with objects. From my experience I doubt they can be chronically abusive; they just have occasional tempers, and those have reasons. I definitely prefer the tempers to the cold quiet (unclear) accusation - now that terrifies me to hell.. The tempers are..warm, clear, and can be dealt with. And often this process ends up helpful for others. Interpret it as you like, but I'd call INFJ's aggression non-violent.
 
Push me and you'll see an aggressive INFJ...

I don't fly off the handle or ever actually reveal anything about my motives when I get thoroughly pissed off. I just take notes. As my grandfather said, "Don't get mad, get even."

All that inner harmony I try to promote when I'm in a good mood gets turned around when someone crossed me. I already learned when I was young, to not start fighting or arguing my case, especially when it's an Exxx type that caused the frustration.

My aggression usually comes in the form of plotting, wording and timing to cause the most harm with the least effort. Ex: Sending an anonymous letter to an authority about a subject people don't want uncovered just before they're getting ready for a big event. Or... Agreeing to take on important projects, gather teams of people to work on them, wait for people to get excited about the results and then quitting my job the next day.

There's also the defensive/proactive aggression. For this, I find I tend to be a manipulator. I use my Ni Fe to make friends with people and generally get them to know me and like me so that when an "enemy" of mine comes around to those people they're likely to be brushed off and ignored. I've actually been quite active in doing this lately since losing my last job... especially since I work in a very small field where people have a tendency to know one another.

In the corporate world I came from, this was called "CYA" or "Covering Your Ass". I used to watch all the ENTx's around me and just took notes.
 
Wyote said:
As a kid I was very prone to flying off the handle for things that people were really caught off guard by. This still happens to a certain degree, but I've learned how to identify that emotion swelling up in me and figured out when I just need to take a break. Now, if somebody does not grant me that break they are probably going to find themselves in some trouble.

I'm a pretty stable person overall though and people very often say that I seem like a very calm and peaceful individual haha. If only they felt what I did, and understood how much I work to give myself that sense of peace.
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I have good days and bad days [don't we all?] Usually I can keep myself calm, but if I am surrounded by too many extroverts I get a little hostile. Too much activity freaks me out. My brain goes into overdrive. I am really expressive when I get overwhelmed, and thats when I HAVE to leave. Otherwise you have a little cluster of people bothering the hell out of you: "Whats wrong? Are you mad? Are you sad? Are you okay? Want a hug?"

-Anna
 
Lerxst said:
Push me and you'll see an aggressive INFJ...

I don't fly off the handle or ever actually reveal anything about my motives when I get thoroughly pissed off. I just take notes. As my grandfather said, "Don't get mad, get even."

All that inner harmony I try to promote when I'm in a good mood gets turned around when someone crossed me. I already learned when I was young, to not start fighting or arguing my case, especially when it's an Exxx type that caused the frustration.

My aggression usually comes in the form of plotting, wording and timing to cause the most harm with the least effort. Ex: Sending an anonymous letter to an authority about a subject people don't want uncovered just before they're getting ready for a big event. Or... Agreeing to take on important projects, gather teams of people to work on them, wait for people to get excited about the results and then quitting my job the next day.

There's also the defensive/proactive aggression. For this, I find I tend to be a manipulator. I use my Ni Fe to make friends with people and generally get them to know me and like me so that when an "enemy" of mine comes around to those people they're likely to be brushed off and ignored. I've actually been quite active in doing this lately since losing my last job... especially since I work in a very small field where people have a tendency to know one another.

In the corporate world I came from, this was called "CYA" or "Covering Your Ass". I used to watch all the ENTx's around me and just took notes.
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I've learned that the best thing I can do as an INFJ is not make ANY enemies. So as soon as I detect unfriendliness directed specifically at me, I instantly do my best to slowly turn things around with that potential enemy. And most often I manage to at least have a neutral relationship with that person.
Being constantly at war with enemies is both mentally and physically draining.
But like you, I also find it crucial to have alliances with various people around me just incase the olive branch extensions don't yield positive result hehehe

"Don't get mad, Get even"? ..... Was your grandfather in the navy seals by any chance?
 
[MENTION=2890]Lerxst[/MENTION] & [MENTION=4162]PeaceSeeker[/MENTION] I do this, too. If I am well liked by all, one person who tries to cut me down will usually be brushed off, ignored, or called crazy. This renders them powerless. I even have an ex & many old friends who say, "She could just never be a bitch!" :D I'm pleased you think so... Hiding in plain sight. Gotta love that Fe.
 
Arsal said:
Yeah, I reckon most people would type him as ESTP or ESTJ, but it's not quite right. Bender has a very specific vision (Ni) of the external world based on what he considers true. He looks behind images and facades and clings to the "essence" of things. (Ni) He calls people out on their bullshit and throws them into situations where they have be honest because in his view, it is the best thing for humanity (Ni+Fe) to be honest. He has anger and resentment towards the external world (Inferior Se) and how things are run, his father, "the authority". (PoLR Te). Basically, he is the poster child for the SP-wannabe INFJ.
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That's interesting, but I think you are going way to far. It is so interpretative that it's actually redundant. Figuring a fictional characters type is one thing (I think it is a valid exercise and all character do have types with good writing) but figuring out if they are actually one type trying to be an extreme deviation of itself is something that could only be reasonably visible in you know the person inside out.

What you are saying can be interpreted in so many different ways. I definitely see it, but on the other hand, other possibilities and are equally sensible, so much so, that delving that far is impossible because you will never know the person.

I don't think it's realitic that Hughes would write an INFJ character who is actually an SP wannabe type. That is far to advanced in terms of character motivation. I think he would right him as a damaged SP.
 
INFJ Agression? I'm the posterboy.

enfp can be shy said:
It's very cute. The worst thing I've seen is that they could break something, but that's very rare, because INFJs are also extremely careful with objects. From my experience I doubt they can be chronically abusive; they just have occasional tempers, and those have reasons. I definitely prefer the tempers to the cold quiet (unclear) accusation - now that terrifies me to hell.. The tempers are..warm, clear, and can be dealt with. And often this process ends up helpful for others. Interpret it as you like, but I'd call INFJ's aggression non-violent.
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Heh, I'm sure I'm a bit of an exception, but I once had a judge tell me "If you come up here and plea self defense one more time, it won't be." I have a 'history of violence' from the time I was very young (but honestly, the other kids started it). Though, I consider myself a fight finisher, and never a fight starter.

However, I've only ever gotten into fights because I was protecting someone else or myself if I couldn't get out of it by talking someone down, avoiding people who were mad at me, or just plain walking away - or I was obligated to a greater good. I am always upset with myself after I've hurt someone, even if it was the right thing to do. For example, when I was a counselor at an addiction recovery center for adolescents, we had a lot of kids who were on their last chance before jail. I had to get physical with them frequently, and put them into submission holds until they either calmed down or we had the police take them. I hated it, but thankfully my martial arts background allowed me to never get hurt in the process, and most importantly never injure one of our patients. (Though I did get them to the floor with a lot of force at times, and I did inflict some painful torque on their joints to get their attention.) It had to be done, but I felt bad about most of them for days afterward. (a few of them only got an hour or two of remorse though, heh.)

However, I live in a city with a lot of violence issues, and your statements about INFJs applies to me pretty well under conditions where someone isn't in danger of physical harm. I am actually reluctant to resort to violence, and am pretty proud of my ability to avoid it where others would not. Unfortunately, more than a few inanimate objects have incurred my wrath by jumping out and stubbing my toes or bumping my head. In those moments, I have no mercy. (and then I feel bad about it)
 
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e-vagrant said:
Almost all INFJs are easily hurt, but there are those who cope by withdrawing and "bottling up", and there are those who cope by lashing out. The latter type of people are never detected as INFJs because they don't fit the popular image of INFJ as meek victim. (Thus, it's hard to tell whether they are actually less common or just underrepresented.) And because other people fail to look beyond the belligerence to notice that hypersensitivity is what's causing it.
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Completely disagree. Your suggesting that you are either one or the other: a complete asshole or a complete pushover. It really doesn't work like that and I don't believe that "most" INFJs are pushovers.

Hyper sensitivity is not a trait and something you can develop away, some people are born physiologically, psychological and neurologically highly sensitive. INFX types are far more predisposed to their sensitive development. But still, sensitive or not is not the issue, the level of neurosis in the individual is, which varies based on the quality of parent attachment and conducive environment.

e-vagrant said:
Which is why I also think the belligerent INFJ constitutes one particular type of abusive romantic partner. If you know about psychology, you know that certain types of people are particularly prone to becoming abusive partners. (Not surprising, as such patterns tend to emerge in all areas of life.) The sociopath is the popular prototype, due to their predatory nature, but I think another distinct type is the insecure INFJ with a bad temper.
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I find this hard to believe... I've done a lot of research into domestic abuse, trauma bonding and bullying personality types too..

You are saying that the most likely people to become an abusive partner is:
1) A sociopath
2) A sensitive INFJ

e-vagrant said:
Here's why: the INFJ's hypersensitivity and emotional intensity, coupled with the emotional intensity of being in love, already sets up a potentially volatile situation. So when the person in question is also insecure and has a quick temper, it almost guarantees disaster. They are obviously not acting under the same motivations as the sociopath, but they get themselves into the same situation by way of being too passionate in unhealthy ways.
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This could apply to all types, i'm afraid. There is nothing that exists instrinsically in an INFJ, even in unhealthy states, that would make them more likely to be abusive then other types. Yes, in an extreme case but by then their problems are much more then their unhealthy cognitive preference use.

e-vagrant said:
Although I generally avoid "typing" celebrities and fictional characters (it seems silly), in this case offering a concrete example might be helpful
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It's not silly at all. Jung would disagree with you also. Symbolism, archetypes and collective unconscious all come from a similar vein and were discovered through the analysis of art, storytelling and mythology.
 
enfp can be shy said:
It's very cute. The worst thing I've seen is that they could break something, but that's very rare, because INFJs are also extremely careful with objects. From my experience I doubt they can be chronically abusive; they just have occasional tempers, and those have reasons. I definitely prefer the tempers to the cold quiet (unclear) accusation - now that terrifies me to hell.. The tempers are..warm, clear, and can be dealt with. And often this process ends up helpful for others. Interpret it as you like, but I'd call INFJ's aggression non-violent.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately for me if I get angry enough to want to throw something as soon as I hold it in my hands I get a rapid mental image of what would happen for example if I wanted to throw something in the kitchen I would pick up a plate and the very instant that I feel the weight of it in my hands I get a rapidly played movie of what would happen if I threw it in this example I would see myself throw it, it would shatter and then I'd have to clean it up which would take additional time and is hardly constructive in the slightest so my anger tends to stay contained. The only instances in which that doesn't tend to happen is if a situation occurred quickly in which case I react and then start to think but that's only happened when being attacked.

The downside is that the anger stays bottled so I have to find a way to vent it....usually done through music.
 
INFJ's despise aggression, because of that they can be very aggressive people.
 
To the opening post:

That's me... except that I seem to have an agression which not connected to emotional sensitivity. I am emotionally sensitive and easily hurt/angered. However, for some reason, unbeknown to me, I am aggressive.

I think I would be an abusive partner.... so I have decided to remain perpetually single.



*sigh* I'm such a screwed up life-form.
 
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