thoughts on INFJ aggression
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feistyfdlr
Three
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- Type 6
OMG
Hello & Good Morning!
Wow what a thing to read the first time I come here! It made me want to sign up as a member ASAP, and here I am. When I took this test and got INFJ I agreed 100% with all of it except where it described the personality. I am actually freaking out because I'm reading about myself here and a serious character defect I've been trying to work on for years. In my family, anger is/was the only emotion we were allowed to show without any consequence. If I showed pain or vulnerability I was verbally "attacked" and I constantly had to defend myself from men's advances from a very young age.
Fast forward several decades and you are now looking at a sober alcoholic who is struggling to get a grip on being supersensitive, I believe you called it hypersensitivity, and trying to learn how to not use anger as the sole means of defense. So not an easy task! I, too, got in fights every day/week at school. Only I was the one kicking the bullies' asses. I've used my anger to keep everyone away from me because I am just the wimpiest when it comes to pain, but that didn't work because I was in some of the most abusive relationships for years. Now that I am sober and trying to work on this major issue, I can't stand even a playful slap. It's abuse plain and simple. Ok, I think I just told everyone way more than I intended on my first time here
LOL Yeah, ok, nice to meet y'all!
Hello & Good Morning!
Wow what a thing to read the first time I come here! It made me want to sign up as a member ASAP, and here I am. When I took this test and got INFJ I agreed 100% with all of it except where it described the personality. I am actually freaking out because I'm reading about myself here and a serious character defect I've been trying to work on for years. In my family, anger is/was the only emotion we were allowed to show without any consequence. If I showed pain or vulnerability I was verbally "attacked" and I constantly had to defend myself from men's advances from a very young age.
Fast forward several decades and you are now looking at a sober alcoholic who is struggling to get a grip on being supersensitive, I believe you called it hypersensitivity, and trying to learn how to not use anger as the sole means of defense. So not an easy task! I, too, got in fights every day/week at school. Only I was the one kicking the bullies' asses. I've used my anger to keep everyone away from me because I am just the wimpiest when it comes to pain, but that didn't work because I was in some of the most abusive relationships for years. Now that I am sober and trying to work on this major issue, I can't stand even a playful slap. It's abuse plain and simple. Ok, I think I just told everyone way more than I intended on my first time here
LOL Yeah, ok, nice to meet y'all! I think abusers can come from any personality type....That being said, it seems to me that INFJ males can go in to the particular category of abuser referred to as Mr. Sensitive.
I want to relate my story now.
I've seen the INFJ's referred to as the couselor. This is an irony as my last relationship was with a therapist who is the posterchild for the underdeveloped INFJ.
He was arrogant, self-entitled and felt that his reality was the only reality that mattered. His profound skill with logic and reasoning did not extend to his own behavior and he felt that if he wanted something, he was entitled to take it. Unfortunately this included starting a relationship with me who was his patient at the time. We did end the therpeutic relationship, and then began dating. It seemed like a perfect match to start with, until he became more and more dissatisfied with my imperfections and began an all out campaign to get me to be better. As a dutiful ENFP (and some would say also as a former client) I began trying to become exactly what he wanted; less sociable, staying home instead of going out, cooking, cleaning whatever he wanted, but no matter how hard I worked, the goal posts kept moving, and it took me a long time to realise that I should never share with him, because he took it down on his mental notebook and saved it for when I had disappointed him, by picking up the groceries an hour later than I said I would (that was breaking a promise), by leaving my bookbag next to the couch, by talking to him after he came out of session without giving him his 1/2 hour of "decompression time." He would then take out his mental notebook and begin the hours long evisceration of my character using all the little tidbits he'd memorized during our good times together when I had been foolish enough to be honest with him. He finally told me, after three years, that I just didn't want the relationship badly enough, and he wanted to be free to find someone who could give him what he wanted. This was apparently someone with the perfect combination of high and low self-esteem.
The main feeling I remember from all of this is the feeling of being dominated. I wonder if this need to dominate in a passive aggressive way is also a flip side of this type?
P.S. I realize this man is an extreme. I cannot imagine most INFJ behavng this way. I just want to point out that this is not necessarily a desireable type to be. It has a serious possibility of going off the road in spectacular ways.
I want to relate my story now.
I've seen the INFJ's referred to as the couselor. This is an irony as my last relationship was with a therapist who is the posterchild for the underdeveloped INFJ.
He was arrogant, self-entitled and felt that his reality was the only reality that mattered. His profound skill with logic and reasoning did not extend to his own behavior and he felt that if he wanted something, he was entitled to take it. Unfortunately this included starting a relationship with me who was his patient at the time. We did end the therpeutic relationship, and then began dating. It seemed like a perfect match to start with, until he became more and more dissatisfied with my imperfections and began an all out campaign to get me to be better. As a dutiful ENFP (and some would say also as a former client) I began trying to become exactly what he wanted; less sociable, staying home instead of going out, cooking, cleaning whatever he wanted, but no matter how hard I worked, the goal posts kept moving, and it took me a long time to realise that I should never share with him, because he took it down on his mental notebook and saved it for when I had disappointed him, by picking up the groceries an hour later than I said I would (that was breaking a promise), by leaving my bookbag next to the couch, by talking to him after he came out of session without giving him his 1/2 hour of "decompression time." He would then take out his mental notebook and begin the hours long evisceration of my character using all the little tidbits he'd memorized during our good times together when I had been foolish enough to be honest with him. He finally told me, after three years, that I just didn't want the relationship badly enough, and he wanted to be free to find someone who could give him what he wanted. This was apparently someone with the perfect combination of high and low self-esteem.
The main feeling I remember from all of this is the feeling of being dominated. I wonder if this need to dominate in a passive aggressive way is also a flip side of this type?
P.S. I realize this man is an extreme. I cannot imagine most INFJ behavng this way. I just want to point out that this is not necessarily a desireable type to be. It has a serious possibility of going off the road in spectacular ways.
muir
Banned
- MBTI
- INFJ
That sounds like typism to me
I have just told you that I was abused, discarded and disregarded in a way that is not only considered unethical, but is also illegal, and your response us to accuse me of typism?
This man seduced a patient.
This man emotionally and physically abused me for three years.
I have a feeling, from you earlier response that I even know what you will say to all this. Please prove me wrong and show some compassion.
It is typism if taken out of context and, admittedly, I did not give you enough, because one of the rules for joining is to keep this board family friendly. That means I can't tell you half of what this man did to me. As I said at the beginning of my post. All types can lean towards being one type of abuser or another. I am simply flummoxed that so many people seem to want to be included in this particular personality type, because it is "rare." It is full of just as much frailty, inanity and absurdity as any other personality and I don't get why rarity means better to so many. In your defense I did not include this thought process in my post, because I thought that people were discussing it so much, that it did not need to be thoroughly and carefully explained, yet again...........
This man seduced a patient.
This man emotionally and physically abused me for three years.
I have a feeling, from you earlier response that I even know what you will say to all this. Please prove me wrong and show some compassion.
It is typism if taken out of context and, admittedly, I did not give you enough, because one of the rules for joining is to keep this board family friendly. That means I can't tell you half of what this man did to me. As I said at the beginning of my post. All types can lean towards being one type of abuser or another. I am simply flummoxed that so many people seem to want to be included in this particular personality type, because it is "rare." It is full of just as much frailty, inanity and absurdity as any other personality and I don't get why rarity means better to so many. In your defense I did not include this thought process in my post, because I thought that people were discussing it so much, that it did not need to be thoroughly and carefully explained, yet again...........
54tjsioU
Well-known member
- MBTI
- ESTP
- Enneagram
- 8w9
I am glad you shared that and more so extremely sorry you had to go through it. There are a few people on this forum however that you should note are... irrational and the best thing you can do for yourself is ignore them.
I don't know what it means to be an ENFP, how similar it would be in thinking to an INFP or more so myself. It's a horrible thing to feel that you have to guard yourself against others, have that paranoia, however in every case it is a must just to make sure that kind of thing doesn't happen to you again. I hope you can get back to the happy little ENFP you probably once were, if not more guarded, none-the-less free.
However I wouldn't say to swear off all INFJs, they are all individuals and some are shitty and some are great. I know one great one and possibly one shitty one though I would never want to admit that he could be an INFJ as he'd be a tyrant if he'd ever de-hermit-ted himself. However there are great differences between the two and they are nothing alike. INFJ and MBTI will not dictate how someone will act, only how they think, how they come to conclusions. There are some great INFJs, you just met a horrible one :/
Keep an open mind and a tentative soul, this relationship will take you a while to understand and get over. Till then avoid psychopaths! Lol I hope you could laugh at that and at the same time know I am completely serious *stares out window depressively*
"However I wouldn't say to swear off all INFJs, they are all individuals and some are shitty and some are great. I know one great one and possibly one shitty one though I would never want to admit that he could be an INFJ as he'd be a tyrant if he'd ever de-hermit-ted himself. However there are great differences between the two and they are nothing alike. INFJ and MBTI will not dictate how someone will act, only how they think, how they come to conclusions. There are some great INFJs, you just met a horrible one"
I believe you are right about this. The sense of entitlement that goes with abusive behavior could show up in any person, no matter their height, eye color, IQ, or personality type.
I believe you are right about this. The sense of entitlement that goes with abusive behavior could show up in any person, no matter their height, eye color, IQ, or personality type.
54tjsioU
Well-known member
- MBTI
- ESTP
- Enneagram
- 8w9
Just a few pointers for this website -as I only know a few- if you wanna quote somebody there's that little "Quote" button you can press on the right under their post and if you wanna tag some buddy and don't care to quote them you put '@' before their name like [MENTION=11426]ebo4ny[/MENTION] and they'll get a little notification. That's about all I know though lol... I'm sure [MENTION=2240]rawr[/MENTION] can tell you more or maybe there's a little how-to page? I wouldn't know where it'd be at though. *whispers* I'm not very attentive at looking for stuff
Oh, and that little thing on the left that looks like a mine from that computer game from Windows 98 -the one where you keep clicking mindlessly till the mines explode- is for rep points. No clue what they do. And that's all I know! Lol...
muir
Banned
- MBTI
- INFJ
I just question if the place to come and vent about INFJ's is a forum set up for INFJ's
It is often said that as a minority type life isn't always easy for INFJ's and having listened to many people on this forum over the years i would say there is some truth to that
So i'm just giving you the perspective that perhaps some INFJ's come to this forum feeling a bit battered by life and perhaps the last thing they need is to get shat on some more by non INFJ's telling them that their type is not 'desirable' (and far worse accusations through association)
I'm sorry to hear you have had a hard time but please bare in mind that this is a forum set up to be a gathering place for INFJ's who might see it as a little oasis in an otherwise often hostile world
I've been on this forum for a long time and have seen a lot of people come and go; so when i tell you that a lot of people come here to bash INFJ's i'm saying it from the perspective of having seen it a lot. I have seen a lot of INFJ's pushed off the forum by very aggressive non INFJ's and i have had to fight the corner of myself and INFJ's in general here just to try and help keep it a place where INFJ's can feel safe to speak out and be themselves
Please note that i may be jumped on for even saying this by aggressive non INFJ's
You'd think the last place that people who hate INFJ's would want to come on the whole wide internet is a forum set up for INFJ's but its amazing how many INFJ haters come here
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sprinkles
Well-known member
- MBTI
- xxxx
No type is necessarily desirable.
The key word here being 'necessarily'. Necessarily desirable means that inherently and automatically the type is always desirable and there can never be enough bad points to break this - that is clearly not what happens.
No type should be painted as the best or desirable type because everyone is an individual and all can go wrong in myriad ways.
If you think INFJs are the best or inherently desirable then you are wrong. If you think any other type is like that then you're still wrong.
The key word here being 'necessarily'. Necessarily desirable means that inherently and automatically the type is always desirable and there can never be enough bad points to break this - that is clearly not what happens.
No type should be painted as the best or desirable type because everyone is an individual and all can go wrong in myriad ways.
If you think INFJs are the best or inherently desirable then you are wrong. If you think any other type is like that then you're still wrong.
muir
Banned
- MBTI
- INFJ
If someone went onto a site set up for a group of people eg gay people or womens lib or civil rights or any of the other MBTI types for that matter and started saying that it is 'undesirable' to be an INFP or an INTJ or gay or a woman or black or whatever i think at least one person might speak up and say ''hold on a minute...that's a little unfair isn't it?''
The problem for INFJ's is that not only are they so rare that they are elbowed out of their own forum but that they generally want to avoid agro unless they deem the cause worthwhile
This means that INFJ's in many situations in life are pushed aside by the more aggressive, more sharp elbowed members of the human race (this is why they often go into certain jobs because they don't want to be involved in the cut and thrust of more aggressive, cut throat professions)
INFJ's often have very good ideas but due to their reflective and reserved nature (and sometimes quiet delivery) they are often not given the credit for them or are ignored or verbally kicked down. I think part of the challenge for INFJ's in this world is for them to assert themselves more because i think they often have perspectives that are valuable for society
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muir
Banned
- MBTI
- INFJ
Only about 3,000 inmates remained in the camps when in 1934–35 Heinrich Himmler's SS took full control of the police and concentration camps throughout Germany. It was then that Hitler allowed Himmler to start using the camps' facilities and personnel to purge German society of so-called "racially undesirable elements" such as Jews, criminals, homosexuals, and Romani people.[SUP][2][/SUP]
Between 1939 and 1942 during World War II, the number of camps exploded to more than 300,[SUP][3][/SUP] as political prisoners and "undesirable elements" from across Europe were mass-incarcerated[SUP][4][/SUP] generally without judicial process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps
Between 1939 and 1942 during World War II, the number of camps exploded to more than 300,[SUP][3][/SUP] as political prisoners and "undesirable elements" from across Europe were mass-incarcerated[SUP][4][/SUP] generally without judicial process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps
sprinkles
Well-known member
- MBTI
- xxxx
"Not necessarily desirable" and "undesirable" are two entirely different concepts.
If one wishes to utilize valid reasoning then it is best to understand this difference.
muir
Banned
- MBTI
- INFJ
The difference is that one is more explicit (and overtly offensive) than the other
The context provides the insight
ThomasJ79
Intertwined
- MBTI
- ni
- Enneagram
- V
Society needs diversity in the personality realm. When I was younger I would always think that the world would be better if everyone behaved a certain way, but now as I've needed the help of so many types of people for a countless number of different things I realized if everyone was like me, or any other type for that matter, we may be able to survive just fine for a while, but eventually some outside pressure is going to destroy the peace and you have to have other types to be able to handle all the things that could happen.
sprinkles
Well-known member
- MBTI
- xxxx
No. They mean entirely different things. I already explained it once.
This is about what is true and not what is 'offensive'.
Saying that anyone is desirable because of their type is frankly kind of stupid and another form of typism. It leads to this absurd notion that "You can't be INFJ because you were mean!"
Not all INFJs are pleasant and that is the damn truth no matter how uncomfortable it is. Saying that INFJs are necessarily desirable would not be the truth because 'necessarily' means that the trait is inherent and present in every INFJ, but it is clearly not.
Saying that INFJs are necessarily desirable is just as bad as saying they're undesirable. Both are untrue. Saying "not necessarily" is more reasonably true than either of the alternatives.
muir
Banned
- MBTI
- INFJ
I haven't said at any point that INFJ's as individuals cannot be bad or do bad things
Here is the comment we are talking about:
P.S. I realize this man is an extreme. I cannot imagine most INFJ behavng this way. I just want to point out that this is not necessarily a desireable type to be. It has a serious possibility of going off the road in spectacular ways.
I interprete this to mean that the INFJ type is not a desirable type to be because it is capable of going off the rails in bad ways
This is singling out INFJ's as being different in being able to go bad more or differently than other types; it is a targetted comment about the INFJ type
sprinkles
Well-known member
- MBTI
- xxxx
And I countered by saying that all types can do that.
muir
Banned
- MBTI
- INFJ
I absolutely agree!
So INFJ's are 1% of the population. But there are 16 types. If you split 100 by 16 this would give each type a 6.25% share but the types are not divided like that. INFJ's make up only 1% so in your opinion is this more or less likely to make them marginalised by lager MBTI groups?