Trump will win again

Tamagochi said:
Though you should really improve the voting security - it is a second contested election in a row already. The standards used in USA are very lax compared to what we have in Europe.
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I understand where you're coming from, but consider this: Trump said for weeks before the election that he would challenge the election if it didn't go his would, and he refused to peacefully transfer power. Considering all that, the fact that this election is contested doesn't say so much about voting security, and more about who is in leadership.
 
Icedream said:
I understand where you're coming from, but consider this: Trump said for weeks before the election that he would challenge the election if it didn't go his would, and he refused to peacefully transfer power. Considering all that, the fact that this election is contested doesn't say so much about voting security, and more about who is in leadership.
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To be more precise, Trump was worried about mail voting and he promised to challenge the results if there would be reason to suspect fraud. That is not an outrageous position to have.

And there were indeed suspicious circumstances: an unusual amount of voters in 100-120 age group, ballots arriving late for Biden in critical states, strange count increases during the night, even software glitches in Biden's favour. But as I've mentioned 4 million lead would be hard to explain by simple fraud. It would have been a massive coordinated underground operation. And I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories :)

EDIT: my point is that you should upgrade your mail voting system that such incidents would be impossible to occur.
 
Tamagochi said:
Though I am not terribly excited about the development, still congratulations to american people :) I am sure you will find a way and go forwards as a nation. And remember the last 4 years as something very special :D
Biden's 4 million lead in popular vote is a strong enough argument even if there is a reasonable doubt over fraud in some places.

Though you should really improve the voting security - it is a second contested election in a row already. The standards used in USA are very lax compared to what we have in Europe.
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Tamagochi said:
EDIT: my point is that you should upgrade your mail voting system that such incidents would be impossible to occur.
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I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.
 
Tamagochi said:
To be more precise, Trump was worried about mail voting and he promised to challenge the results if there would be reason to suspect fraud. That is not an outrageous position to have.

And there were indeed suspicious circumstances: an unusual amount of voters in 100-120 age group, ballots arriving late for Biden in critical states, strange count increases during the night, even software glitches in Biden's favour. But as I've mentioned 4 million lead would be hard to explain by simple fraud. It would have been a massive coordinated underground operation. And I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories :)

EDIT: my point is that you should upgrade your mail voting system that such incidents would be impossible to occur.
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you give mr 45 way too much credit here. He was trying to discredit our mail system, and was trying to kill it.
 
Mail in ballots:
kamala_harris_im_speaking_meme.jpg



It's almost like Trump totally screwed himself over by insisting no one vote by mail in a pandemic! Mail in and absentee ballots are nothing new to the US btw and 5 states have been automatically mailing out ballots for years already without issues.... What is the evidence? Not getting your desired result doesn't make it fraud.
 
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Icedream said:
you give mr 45 way too much credit here. He was trying to discredit our mail system, and was trying to kill it.
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Like everything, he was trying to game a win. Republicans have known for decades that higher turnout means a higher chance of loss for them. That’s why they invest so much into voter suppression and also, why they keep losing the popular vote.

So, Trump was relying on his supporters to turn out for him in person while simultaneously suppressing the means for a larger turnout.

He was doing so much to override people’s fear of getting COVID.

Edited: The USPS workers are total heroes.

Edited 2: As are people who stood and waited in line to vote where mail-in voting wasn’t available. From either party.
 
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The problem with the election fraud situation is that it's inherently coupled with Trump's motivations.

Trump has said numerous times that he will not accept the the outcome of the election, and months prior said that if Biden wins, he'll win by rigging the election. This implies that Trump was anticipating a rigged election. He also said pretty much the exact same thing in 2016 when running against Hilary, claiming that she would rig the election.

Let's suppose that Trump was sincerely concerned about an unfair election in both these cases, and that his statements have nothing to do with him not being willing to accept defeat. If this was the case, why did his opinion on the matter flip immediately after he won 2016? He very much stated that he won the election fair and square, which is not consistent with his "concerns" of a fair election. This is more data to indicate that he really doesn't care about the fairness of the election and is more concerning with winning at any cost.

If we're to take election fraud seriously, we need to do so consistently and impartially, and evidence needs to be at the forefront of the matter. Without strong, verifiable evidence, the allegations become paranoia, especially when voting precincts are extremely transparent with their processes, and you can go read about them... So it can be debunked that there was not bipartisan representation at some of the suspicious precincts, that the activity couldn't be observed, etc.

I am willing to consider election fraud if there's due diligence on the accusers' side, and if these concerns don't just magically pop up when Trump starts losing (to mail-in ballots, nonetheless).
 
noisebloom said:
Let's suppose that Trump was sincerely concerned about an unfair election in both these cases, and that his statements have nothing to do with him not being willing to accept defeat. If this was the case, why did his opinion on the matter flip immediately after he won 2016? He very much stated that he won the election fair and square, which is not consistent with his "concerns" of a fair election. This is more data to indicate that he really doesn't care about the fairness of the election and is more concerning with winning at any cost.
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"I have proudly won the rigged election" - said no one in the history of politics :D It is mandatory for the victor to claim legitimacy of the process.

A stronger argument against Trump claims would be - if he had anticipated fraud against him in advance, then why he did not do anything to prevent it? He had the power and the tools at his disposal: the senate, FBI, even the supreme court. So either he was not serious (and also incompetent) or he has planted the idea in people heads to come back to, if needed.
 
Tamagochi said:
"I have proudly won the rigged election" - said no one in the history of politics :D It is mandatory for the victor to claim legitimacy of the process.
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What about the counterfactual:

If Biden had have lost the election, would he have conceded? He promised to accept the outcome in one of the debates, and he would've done. He almost lost, let's not forget. It was pretty close.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
If Biden had have lost the election, would he have conceded? He promised to accept the outcome in one of the debates, and he would've done. He almost lost, let's not forget. It was pretty close.
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I think so. And Biden had more reason to fear for election integrity than Trump. The common practice worldwide is that dictator wins fairly the first election and rigs the subsequent. It's very rare that the challenger manages to successfully cheat.
 
It's over. Don lost. His minions will die left and right, trying to get this to his supreme court..but, they will not succeed. He will leave willingly or in handcuffs. The people spoke..
 
Tamagochi said:
"I have proudly won the rigged election" - said no one in the history of politics :D It is mandatory for the victor to claim legitimacy of the process.

A stronger argument against Trump claims would be - if he had anticipated fraud against him in advance, then why he did not do anything to prevent it? He had the power and the tools at his disposal: the senate, FBI, even the supreme court. So either he was not serious (and also incompetent) or he has planted the idea in people heads to come back to, if needed.
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It's still preposterous to announce "the process is rigged", "nevermind - I won", and then again "the process is rigged", but I agree that in the name of winning an election, it would be foolish to question the process after claiming victory.

Agreed that the inaction is really the damning evidence that Trump didn't sincerely believe in a process issue... again, he is not taking the burden of proof with these fraud allegations, and there really is quite a bit of transparency into how voting precincts conduct their activities, from what I have seen.
 
I think Trump placed himself out of office. Tired of the show. Hope Biden doesn't destroy it.
 
This is directed to no one. This is clearly the wrong opinion so this will probably be the final straw. I have only included items with numbers that can be checked anywhere, the affidavits and the like are not included. I am confident that the official denying News Headline will be produced to deny all of this as well as a lot of fine name calling so with all of that out of the way let us begin.

(In no particular order)

If one applies the Benford Law to the Swing states and major cities one will find that was is suppose to be going on is WAY outside the statistical norms. (it has been used legally in previous elections)
For Trump to get a "free" recount in PA he needed to "lose" by .5% or less. He lost by .51%
Georgia got its 4AM voter drop that included only votes for Biden the odds of that are above 52,000,000 to one.
The software that was caught flipping 6,000 Trump votes to Biden was used in ALL of the swing states.
(Coincidentally the company is owned and/or invested in by the husbands of Pelosi and Feinstein).
Minnesota and Wisconsin had voter turnout in the high 80 to 90% 5 times the statistical norm.
In all states that had the 4AM ballot drop ALL votes were for Biden none were for Trump.
In Arizona Sharpies (not legal) were only given to Republicans, no Democrats were given a Sharpie.
In Michigan 7 voters were born before 1902 including one who was born in 1850.
In PA Joe Frazier voted for Biden and has been dead since 2011
Again in PA 23,277 votes were "found" and all were for Biden.
In 7 Milwaukee Wards Presidential votes exceeded registered voters.
Of the "found" or dropped 4 am ballots here are the number of ballots that voted ONLY for Biden and no one else (down ballot):
PA 98,000
GA 80-90,000
AR 42,000
MI 69 - 115,000
WI 62,836

This again does NOT include the Postal worker statements/affidavits, the Republican Poll watchers which were barred in at least in Philadelphia and Detroit. The boarding up of the election counting locations windows. The PA election folk that ignored the Federal Court rulings allowing the Republican observers into the tabulating centers. The State of PA violating its own Constitution. I could not find the numbers of the total number of people dead who voted or the people who were 100 (plus) years old, those numbers are also quite high. The attempt to get the dead registered in Florida was stopped before they could get the data entered. Nationally the House of Rep. seriously contested races Republicans won 28 of 29 and yet Biden still won. The Democrats only picked up one Senate Seat and yet Biden won.

I can certainly understand and appreciate that particularly since Fox is also now part of the Fake Media is nearly impossible to get anything that resembles what is actually going on. However, the truth does exist even if it is remotely (and does not fit the approved philosophy).
 
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