Vaccines Debate

We've got a bunch of measles hopping and bopping around in my area. Doesn't really bother me.
 
I pulled some figures from 2014. The short version is, you were 500 times more likely to get killed by a car in the US than you were Measles.

There was a .0002% of catching the disease and suffering a severe side effect from it, including death. On the other hand, there was a .1% chance of getting killed by an automobile in the country that same year. Sadly, people know there are severe side effects from the vaccine (not even talking about Autism). but the exact figures aren't tracked (read any conspiracy theory you like into that...).

What pisses me off about this debate most, is that it's not even a freakin' newsworthy debate to be having. Measles is not a lethal killer of a disease like, say, Ebola. The chances of death, brain damage or any effect was 1 in 1000 and that's compounded by the chance of actually getting the disease in the first place, even if you're not vaccinated.

I would think the more newsworthy story here would be the ingredients in those vaccines, the lack of accountability (can't be sued, and can't be touched for any flaws in the vaccines or side effects) for the only company who manufactures them and the lack of any third party studies showing the side effects of the vaccines. That, to me, is a better story to be going after, like the muckrakers like Upton Sinclair or Ida Tarbel used to.
 
Lerxst said:
I pulled some figures from 2014. The short version is, you were 500 times more likely to get killed by a car in the US than you were Measles.

There was a .0002% of catching the disease and suffering a severe side effect from it, including death. On the other hand, there was a .1% chance of getting killed by an automobile in the country that same year. Sadly, people know there are severe side effects from the vaccine (not even talking about Autism). but the exact figures aren't tracked (read any conspiracy theory you like into that...).

What pisses me off about this debate most, is that it's not even a freakin' newsworthy debate to be having. Measles is not a lethal killer of a disease like, say, Ebola. The chances of death, brain damage or any effect was 1 in 1000 and that's compounded by the chance of actually getting the disease in the first place, even if you're not vaccinated.

I would think the more newsworthy story here would be the ingredients in those vaccines, the lack of accountability (can't be sued, and can't be touched for any flaws in the vaccines or side effects) for the only company who manufactures them and the lack of any third party studies showing the side effects of the vaccines. That, to me, is a better story to be going after, like the muckrakers like Upton Sinclair or Ida Tarbel used to.
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[video=youtube;gzlJHX3BZbo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzlJHX3BZbo[/video]
 
Lerxst said:
I pulled some figures from 2014. The short version is, you were 500 times more likely to get killed by a car in the US than you were Measles.

There was a .0002% of catching the disease and suffering a severe side effect from it, including death. On the other hand, there was a .1% chance of getting killed by an automobile in the country that same year. Sadly, people know there are severe side effects from the vaccine (not even talking about Autism). but the exact figures aren't tracked (read any conspiracy theory you like into that...).

What pisses me off about this debate most, is that it's not even a freakin' newsworthy debate to be having. Measles is not a lethal killer of a disease like, say, Ebola. The chances of death, brain damage or any effect was 1 in 1000 and that's compounded by the chance of actually getting the disease in the first place, even if you're not vaccinated.

I would think the more newsworthy story here would be the ingredients in those vaccines, the lack of accountability (can't be sued, and can't be touched for any flaws in the vaccines or side effects) for the only company who manufactures them and the lack of any third party studies showing the side effects of the vaccines. That, to me, is a better story to be going after, like the muckrakers like Upton Sinclair or Ida Tarbel used to.
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This literally isn't true in several ways. The statistics your using say nothing about likelihood of getting hit by a car. It only can tell us humber of people in the us who didn't get hit by a car in that year per person who did (or the reverse). And the same is true for your measles statistic. Statistics don't work like that.
measles isn't dangerous for its death rate. It's dangerous because of how contagious it is. Plus it's extra dangerous to small children. 1/4 small children have to be hospitalized.
Severe side effects from a vaccine? You mean like the glass thing mentioned a while ago? That was a manufacturing error. You mean those who think vaccines cause encephalitis? No research for that either.
And seriously. There are a set of courts specifically for vaccine injury where people don't even need to prove they where injured. Only have to show "reasonable suspicion". Much easier than in normal courts.
 
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You're right. That number I got, based on 312 million people in the US and 625 reported cases of Measles was only showing the number of ill. Of the .0002% of the population that caught Measles, there were no casualties... not a high enough number to even statistically register in the 1 in 1,000 mortality rate of the disease.

On the other hand, there were over 30 million fatal car accidents the same year - .1% of the US population died in a car crash. You tell me, which is the more lethal - Measles or car accidents.

Prior to vaccinations Measles was already on the decline, but beyond that IT'S NOT A DEADLY DISEASE. I don't know how many ways I can over-stress this enough. You're more likely to die from pneumonia brought on by the common cold than you are Measles. And guess what, the common cold is just as contagious.

So quit being a media-lemming and actually do some research on your own about the diseases and vaccinations instead of believing every single thing you read on the Internet or see on TV,
 
In response to measles not being a deathly disease:



  • Before vaccination became widespread in the 1960s, pediatricians knew to check their patients' throats for the spray of telltale spots. Scientists raced for decades to develop an effective vaccine. And in the meantime, newspapers printed matter-of-fact death tolls, tallying high numbers of deaths by measles, scarlet fever, smallpox, and other illnesses of the recent past.
  • Measles killed some 2.6 million people each year before vaccination was widespread, according to the World Health Organization. Today, some 145,000 people die of measles each year—most of them because they lack access to the vaccine—and just a tiny fraction of them are in the United States, where the vaccine is readily available and widely used.
  • Traces of measles' one-time ubiquity in the States still linger in morbid nursery rhymes ("Cat's got the measles and the measles have got you," one goes) and splotchy illustrations in old children's books and medical texts, but vaccination has changed the way people see the illness in the developed world.
  • Culturally, measles is rarely seen as a threat anymore in the United States—a misconception that the disease isn't as dangerous as it actually is.
  • "It can definitely come back," Meissner told me. "And then because this is probably the most infectious of all the known viruses or illnesses—we say that about 90 percent of people who are not immune and who are exposed to measles will get it—that's a higher number than for any illness, even influenza. It's one of the most infectious or transmissible viruses that we're aware of."
  • Measles is already one of the leading causes of death among young children worldwide. About 400 people die from the virus each day—that's about 16 deaths every hour, according to the WHO. "It's a very severe disease," Meissner told me. "It's not a mild illness like mumps or even chickenpox. This is a much more severe sort of illness." Even those who survive the virus can suffer brain swelling, pneumonia, deafness, and other permanent complications.
  • To complicate matters further, there's an entire generation of doctors in the United States who have never treated a measles patient, or even seen a case in person. "The success in general of the vaccination program does mean that younger physicians have never seen a case, and they don't necessarily think about it at all," Seward told me. "The other challenge, which is nobody's fault at all, is that measles presents early on looking just like an upper-respiratory infection with fever. But it can be contagious before the rash. At that stage it's not distinguishable from the flu or other respiratory viruses."
  • And though some of the treatments for complications associated with measles are more sophisticated today than they were in the pre-vaccination era, measles is just as deadly as ever. "If you go into shock, treatment of shock has probably improved," Seward told me, "But none of the treatments have changed that are going to alter the risk of death if you have a really bad case of measles."
Some select quotes from this piece

So, we have historic information that measles used to kill a large number of people before vaccination was widespread, we have information that measles continues to kill a large number of people in places where vaccination isn't widespread, we know the disease is one of the most infectious ones, doctors aren't fully equipped to recognize measles which means complications from lack of treatment could be an issue for the infected. It doesn't seem that harmless. It's ironic that the prevalence of vaccination and its effectiveness is involved with the perception that measles is harmless.

For the sake of indulging your argument lets say that with modern health care measles isn't a deadly disease, it's still a highly infectious one and seems to be a more complicated affair than catching a common cold. Why should people suffer it if they can get vaccinated? Because the vaccine is supposedly harmful? How many people suffer adverse effects from this vaccine? Is there a reason why healthy individuals with a healthy immune system shouldn't get it?

Where does the claim that "you're more likely to die of pneumonia that develops from a cold than measles" come from?
 
Adding some more to the discussion, my real problem with vaccines is quality and the understanding that went into them. The shoddy vaccines and toxic ones definitely exist. It may sound extreme, but I doubt we are totally past the days of people unknowingly being used as disposable guinea pigs. Once we understand our own immune systems better, and can detect the relevant personal characteristics for safely giving immunization (as well as safer delivery mechanism), I would have no problem with most of them. But we aren't there yet. In the meantime, I can agree with immunization for the bad ones, but the salt is that they still have to be well made to be worth anything, and that's become the real question... profit motive and all that. Further, the CDC keeps some of the legitimate problems shushed up because they don't want people to avoid immunization, while there isn't any sign I've seen that they're actually trying to fix those problems.
 
I don't trust them at all..
Getting vaccinated is like being turned into a plague carrier whilst inviting a lot of other misery upon yourself.

'cause really there's aluminium and stuff in them, some of them leave scars others have severe side effects and it's dangerous to inject kids with such an amount of foreign substances, and most vaccinations are done to little kids...


You should never trust the shit other people force upon you. Especially if they turn out to be "optional" Use your intuition some more!




Sources.

1. Outbreak of Measles Among Persons With Prior Evidence of Immunity, New York City, 2011 http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/02/27/cid.ciu105
2. Detection of Measles Virus RNA in Urine Specimens from Vaccine Recipients http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7494055
3. Comparison of the Safety, Vaccine Virus Shedding and Immunogenicity of Influenza Virus Vaccine, Trivalent, Types A and B, Live Cold-Adapted, Administered to Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)-Infected and Non-HIV Infected Adults http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/181/2/725.full
4. Sibling Transmission of Vaccine-Derived Rotavirus (RotaTeq) Associated with Rotavirus Gastroenteritis http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/2/e438
5. Polio vaccination may continue after wild virus fades http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...ccination-may-continue-after-wild-virus-fades
6. Engineering attenuated virus vaccines by controlling replication fidelity http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v14/n2/abs/nm1726.html
7. CASE OF VACCINE-ASSOCIATED MEASLES FIVE WEEKS POST-IMMUNISATION, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA, OCTOBER 2013 http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=20649
8. The Safety Profile of Varicella Vaccine: A 10-Year Review http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/197/Supplement_2/S165.full
9. Comparison of Shedding Characteristics of Seasonal Influenza Virus (Sub)Types and Influenza A(H1N1)pdm09; Germany, 2007–2011 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0051653
10. Epigenetics of Host–Pathogen Interactions: The Road Ahead and the Road Behind http://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1003007
11. Animal Models for Influenza Virus Pathogenesis and Transmission http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3063653/
12. Acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease but fail to prevent infection and transmission in a nonhuman primate mode http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3063653/
13. Study Finds Parents Can Pass Whooping Cough to Babies http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/health/03coug.html?_r=0
14. Immunized People Getting Whooping Cough http://www.kpbs.org/news/2014/jun/12/immunized-people-getting-whooping-cough/
15. Vaccine Failure — Over 1000 Got Mumps in NY in Last Six Months http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...-1000-get-mumps-in-ny-in-last-six-months.aspx
16. Impact of Repeated Vaccination on Vaccine Effectiveness Against Influenza A(H3N2) and B During 8 Seasons http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/09/29/cid.ciu680.full
17. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/09/18/flu-shot-increases-flu-illness.aspx
18. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00056803.htm
19. http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/zero-...but-over-100-measles-vaccine-deaths-reported/
 
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Lerxst said:
You're right. That number I got, based on 312 million people in the US and 625 reported cases of Measles was only showing the number of ill. Of the .0002% of the population that caught Measles, there were no casualties... not a high enough number to even statistically register in the 1 in 1,000 mortality rate of the disease.

On the other hand, there were over 30 million fatal car accidents the same year - .1% of the US population died in a car crash. You tell me, which is the more lethal - Measles or car accidents.

Prior to vaccinations Measles was already on the decline, but beyond that IT'S NOT A DEADLY DISEASE. I don't know how many ways I can over-stress this enough. You're more likely to die from pneumonia brought on by the common cold than you are Measles. And guess what, the common cold is just as contagious.

So quit being a media-lemming and actually do some research on your own about the diseases and vaccinations instead of believing every single thing you read on the Internet or see on TV,
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Firstly, I'd like to apologize for responding in a way that might have been interpreted as harsh. I was in a rush when I made the post.
I have done reading in the subject, so I am not simply speaking from a media point of view.
However, and as [MENTION=751]Peppermint[/MENTION] pointed out, measles can lead to other diseases just as your example with the common cold leads to pneumonia. For example, measles can lead to pneumonia, conjunctivitis, laryngitis, and ear infections (caused by the generally weaker immune system in fighting off the disease). Further, measles can lead to more serious complications such as hepatitis (liver infection), meningitis (CNS infection), and encephalitis (brain infection) which are also secondary infections but far more deadly. Admittedly less common, but certainly existing.
The secondary complications are noticeably more common in infants and young children because of the weaker immune systems.
Think of it like measles beats down the walls, and other infections can then spring in. Much as what happens with the common cold and pneumonia. However, I would argue measles is more contagious than the common cold because measles is contagious for about 8 days while the common cold is only contagious for about 3 days.
This is why your statistics are not valid. You are looking at number of deaths in the US for some time span (probably last year) between the two diseases. Not the probability for each individual disease. When a disease is a lot more infections, but is widely prevented through vaccinations (as an example) then less people will necessarily be harmed. The common cold does not have a vaccine. So imagine another disease like the cold only more infections, and more likely to cause secondary complications.
Estimates for the common cold can be as high as over a billion colds a year in the US. Now remember that Measles is even more infectious, but let's ignore that for now for benefit of the doubt. Perhaps we assume that when people get a rash, they will go home and stop infecting other people. Before that they will treat it like a cold (very similar symptoms at that point), and measles is infections for about 4 days before the rash develops which isn't much off from the cold. So if we consider if measles was as wide spread as the cold, and we take the 1/1000-1/500 death rate (1 or 2 per thousand is the death rate), we are looking at between 1 and 2 million deaths per year. To me, that sounds pretty severe. Notice the similarity to what Peppermint brought up.
I don't know about you [MENTION=2890]Lerxst[/MENTION], but even verging on the lower end of our estimate of 1 million deaths per year, that seems pretty severe. Very different from the couple thousand to a few tens of thousands estimated to die from cold complications.
 
ArtFirst said:
I don't trust them at all..
Getting vaccinated is like being turned into a plague carrier whilst inviting a lot of other misery upon yourself.
Click to expand...
There are considerable differences between vaccines and the way you described it. For example, the viruses are not live, and often times not even the full virus. For example, the Ebola vaccine is actually a completely different virus with a single protein marker unique to the Ebola virus. It's like taking a cold virus (however I'm not sure what virus specifically they are using. I think it has a weird alpha-numeric name), putting an Ebola sticker on it, and the immune system learns to recognize the Ebola sticker. That way the immune system can effectively recognize the Ebola virus and destroy it.

'cause really there's aluminium and stuff in them, some of them leave scars others have severe side effects and it's dangerous to inject kids with such an amount of foreign substances, and most vaccinations are done to little kids...
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I'm sorry, but that's not really how chemistry works. We are exposed to a huge number of toxic substances constantly. The reason we survive is because the body can filter stuff out, process damage, and adapt. There is a point that the body cannot deal so well with the substance, and we call that a tolerance level. There is a tolerance level the human body has to each substance. The argument is whether or not that tolerance level has been breached. The problem is people who argue that it has been breached do not realize the truly minute amounts of the chemicals in a vaccine or even a number of vaccines. They also do not realize the adaptability of the human body.

You should never trust the shit other people force upon you. Especially if they turn out to be "optional" Use your intuition some more!
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You don't have to trust, there is research available to be looked at. However, to say not to take a vaccine simply because people are making it optional for you is hardly a good argument. Only a starting point. While intuition is good to look out for signs of trouble, it does not necessarily mean there is trouble. Just because the bush is rustling doesn't mean there's a tiger behind it. We should be wary of the tiger, yes, but we should also consider if there is actually a tiger there. For example, if your in the middle of Central Park, you're by far more than likely fine.
 
dogman6126 said:
Firstly, I'd like to apologize for responding in a way that might have been interpreted as harsh. I was in a rush when I made the post.
I have done reading in the subject, so I am not simply speaking from a media point of view.
However, and as @Peppermint pointed out, measles can lead to other diseases just as your example with the common cold leads to pneumonia. For example, measles can lead to pneumonia, conjunctivitis, laryngitis, and ear infections (caused by the generally weaker immune system in fighting off the disease). Further, measles can lead to more serious complications such as hepatitis (liver infection), meningitis (CNS infection), and encephalitis (brain infection) which are also secondary infections but far more deadly. Admittedly less common, but certainly existing.
The secondary complications are noticeably more common in infants and young children because of the weaker immune systems.
Think of it like measles beats down the walls, and other infections can then spring in. Much as what happens with the common cold and pneumonia. However, I would argue measles is more contagious than the common cold because measles is contagious for about 8 days while the common cold is only contagious for about 3 days.
This is why your statistics are not valid. You are looking at number of deaths in the US for some time span (probably last year) between the two diseases. Not the probability for each individual disease. When a disease is a lot more infections, but is widely prevented through vaccinations (as an example) then less people will necessarily be harmed. The common cold does not have a vaccine. So imagine another disease like the cold only more infections, and more likely to cause secondary complications.
Estimates for the common cold can be as high as over a billion colds a year in the US. Now remember that Measles is even more infectious, but let's ignore that for now for benefit of the doubt. Perhaps we assume that when people get a rash, they will go home and stop infecting other people. Before that they will treat it like a cold (very similar symptoms at that point), and measles is infections for about 4 days before the rash develops which isn't much off from the cold. So if we consider if measles was as wide spread as the cold, and we take the 1/1000-1/500 death rate (1 or 2 per thousand is the death rate), we are looking at between 1 and 2 million deaths per year. To me, that sounds pretty severe. Notice the similarity to what Peppermint brought up.
I don't know about you @Lerxst, but even verging on the lower end of our estimate of 1 million deaths per year, that seems pretty severe. Very different from the couple thousand to a few tens of thousands estimated to die from cold complications.
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Not that 1 million is a low number considering people will die. But there's no "story" here as far as our media should be concerned. 30+ millions people are guaranteed to die from car accidents considering past figures. THAT is more in line with the "epidemic" media portrays Measles as being.

Ebola, an admittedly lethal disease has killed an estimated 9,000+ people in Africa over the course of 2014. How many people has Measles killed in the US over that same period of time? 0. Again, one is newsworthy, the other is not.

There's no story here and I'm getting sick of running across it every time I go online. Time for the media to move on already and focus on something that actually matters.
 
dogman6126 said:
There are considerable differences between vaccines and the way you described it. For example, the viruses are not live, and often times not even the full virus. For example, the Ebola vaccine is actually a completely different virus with a single protein marker unique to the Ebola virus. It's like taking a cold virus (however I'm not sure what virus specifically they are using. I think it has a weird alpha-numeric name), putting an Ebola sticker on it, and the immune system learns to recognize the Ebola sticker. That way the immune system can effectively recognize the Ebola virus and destroy it.


I'm sorry, but that's not really how chemistry works. We are exposed to a huge number of toxic substances constantly. The reason we survive is because the body can filter stuff out, process damage, and adapt. There is a point that the body cannot deal so well with the substance, and we call that a tolerance level. There is a tolerance level the human body has to each substance. The argument is whether or not that tolerance level has been breached. The problem is people who argue that it has been breached do not realize the truly minute amounts of the chemicals in a vaccine or even a number of vaccines. They also do not realize the adaptability of the human body.


You don't have to trust, there is research available to be looked at. However, to say not to take a vaccine simply because people are making it optional for you is hardly a good argument. Only a starting point. While intuition is good to look out for signs of trouble, it does not necessarily mean there is trouble. Just because the bush is rustling doesn't mean there's a tiger behind it. We should be wary of the tiger, yes, but we should also consider if there is actually a tiger there. For example, if your in the middle of Central Park, you're by far more than likely fine.
Click to expand...

Please read the sources that I linked my "arguments" which were my feelings after reading up on vaccines as you now seem to suggest that I should do.
I would like to see you do the same, as I took the effort of linking the sources upon which I made some statements. Discrediting those statements without reading the sources is like saying im wrong because you haven't read the other half of the book yet.

I've also noticed significant health improvements after stopping to let myself be vaccinated as a kid.
You might find it interesting to know that in my country, kids with a parent from an other country get many more vaccinations than other kids.
Even though we're all in a Europe with few to no borders and some of those parents have lived a great amount of years in this country.

Honestly if you feel vaccinations will help you and your kids then please pump yourselves full of them, take my share too if you feel like it would help you.
I'm simply stating how I feel about vaccinations as per the original question of the topic. Any statements made have their sources linked below.
It is not my concern what effects vaccinations will have on you as long as the effects do not hinter me or mine and aren't forced upon people as they were upon me.

If you believe me to be a person who fears what he does not fully understand, then I believe you are sorely mistaken.
I do not fear vaccinations or anything like it. I distrust the motives of the people behind their production and the resulting contents.

The idea itself of immunizing myself to a disease sounds wonderful, I just do not trust vaccinations are free from 3rd party interests and adjustments.
Interests and adjustments that do not align with my own interests of preserving or improving upon my health and as such I feel it is better to avoid vaccinations whenever possible.
 
The vaccinated are spreading measles http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/vaccinated-spreading-measles-who-merck-cdc-documents-confirms

CDC documents admit that the vaccinated ARE spreading measles: http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/vaccinated-spreading-measles-who-merck-cdc-documents-confirms

The flu shot’s a fraud http://www.naturalnews.com/048422_flu_shot_scientific_fraud_controlled_trials.html

Vaccine causes sudden death http://www.naturalnews.com/048430_vaccines_sudden_death_Big_Pharma.html

Vaccine infant death link from CDC’s own paperwork http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/cdcs-own-data-vaccine-infant-death-link

Measles outbreaks amongst the vaccinated http://www.naturalnews.com/048391_measles_MMR_vaccines_Disneyland.html

Scientific vaccine fraud http://www.naturalnews.com/048402_measles_vaccine_scientific_fraud_court_documents.html

CDC lying about flu death numbers http://www.naturalnews.com/048356_flu_deaths_CDC_statistics_vaccines.html#

Failing measles vaccine responsible for Disney outbreak http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/disney-measles-outbreak-mousetrap-ignorance

Vaccine hoax explained https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3P6wVUH0pc

Merck paid off two scientists to silence them over vaccine fraud http://www.naturalnews.com/048545_MMR_vaccine_Merck_scientific_fraud.html

Mainstream media tries to twist the anti-vax movement https://www.intellihub.com/cnn-twis...-pushes-mandatory-vaccines-entire-population/

Flu vaccine is useless http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11393560/Flu-jab-given-to-millions-is-useless.html

Why don’t amish have autistic children? http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2005/05/04/amish-autism-part-one.aspx

[FONT=&amp]Measles spread by MMR vaccinated people http://www.naturalnews.com/048519_vaccines_measles_virus_shedding.html[/FONT]

medical mutilation by vaccines http://www.naturalnews.com/048691_vaccine_damaged_children_graphic_photos_medical_mutilation.html

Vaccines are based on faulty data http://www.naturalnews.com/048687_measles_vaccine_data_research_fraud.html

Mercks MMR vaccine failed to protect thousands from mumps http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stor...otect-thousands-from-mumps-150214?news=855671

Merck under fire as more whistleblowers come forward http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html

Vaccine mandates being forced on people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1cNbEA30q0#

Vaccine induced auto-immune disorders http://www.globalresearch.ca/vaccin...-chronic-autoimmune-childhood-disease/5431013

CDC whistleblower https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbLGZw-SciU

Vaccine cover up http://www.naturalnews.com/048569_vaccine_fraud_Julie_Gerberding_cover-up.html

Flu jab is useless http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11393560/Flu-jab-given-to-millions-is-useless.html
 
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Until I can create my own vaccines I won't trust anybody. I hear they have smartphones now for diabetics and soon I will be able to do drug tests and blood work as well. Imagine that pissing on your iphone...

If you want to stay safe then I recommend ultra violet lights and probiotics. And if you want to get over the flu then just induce vomiting, the acid will burn your throat clean and the adrenaline will purge your respiratory systems. Symptoms counter act each other, some diseases you cannot have at the same time which is the ultimate trick to medicine.
 
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/paul-repeats-baseless-vaccine-claims/

Sen. Rand Paul gave false and misleading statements about vaccine safety in two separate interviews, including a claim that “many” children have developed “profound mental disorders” after vaccinations.
There is no evidence that any currently recommended vaccine causes brain damage or other mental disorders in otherwise healthy children. Severe reactions do occur but are extremely rare.
Vaccine safety has become a central topic in recent weeks as a measles outbreak that began at Disneyland in California has spread. Between Jan. 1 and Jan. 30, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that 102 people had confirmed cases of measles, a disease that the CDC declared “eliminated” from the United States in 2000 because of the highly effective vaccine. In recent years, a small but growing number of parents have avoided the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine because of fears related to debunked and fraudulent science.
Paul, a Republican from Kentucky who is considering a 2016 presidential bid and who also formerly was a practicing physician, said on CNBC that vaccines could cause serious problems in children.
Paul, Feb. 2: I have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines.

The senator’s office was unable to provide a single example of a vaccine causing a mental disorder; nor did his office provide any information on the specific type or types of mental disorders or vaccines that caused disorders to which Paul was referring. We contacted several experts on immunizations, however, and all of them agreed that there are no such links between common vaccines and mental disorders.
SciCHECKinsert“The comments made by Rand Paul are worrisome, as they don’t seem to be based on scientific data,” said Marietta Vazquez, an associate professor of pediatrics at Yale University School of Medicine and a member of the U.S. Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, a group convened by the CDC to advise on vaccines. “Indeed, there are no reported cases of profound mental disorders that I know of.”
There have been some reports of “lowered consciousness” or permanent brain damage after a vaccine is given for diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (whooping cough) or measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR), but the CDC says that these are so rare that a cause-and-effect relationship cannot be determined.
The diseases these common vaccines prevent, on the other hand, can cause serious problems: One in 1,000 children with measles will develop a swelling of the brain “that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded,” and between 1 and 2 in 1,000 will die, according to the CDC. Pertussis is even more dangerous: One in 300 children with whooping cough will develop brain complications, and 1.6 percent will die.
Vazquez said in an email that serious adverse events can indeed occur with common vaccines, but they are exceptionally rare. Serious allergic reactions to the MMR vaccine, for example, occur at a rate of less than 1 in every 1 million doses, according to the CDC.
The modern anti-vaccination movement stems largely from a 1998 paper published in The Lancet that linked the MMR vaccine to the development of autism. The Lancet retracted that paper, and an investigation by the British Medical Journal found the work to be fraudulent. The paper’s author, Andrew Wakefield, had his medical license in the United Kingdom stripped.
More recently, Rep. Michele Bachmann spread further anti-vaccine sentiment by repeating a story about the vaccine for human papillomavirus, an infection that causes cervical cancer, and its theoretical link to “mental retardation.” We wrote in 2011 about that claim, which is entirely baseless.
The Institute of Medicine, an arm of the National Academy of Sciences, released a report in 2011 summarizing the safety of all vaccines the CDC recommends for children. There is sufficient evidence, the report said, to reject the link between MMR and autism, as well as a link between MMR and type 1 diabetes; between inactivated influenza vaccine and a facial nerve disorder known as Bell’s palsy; between the diphtheria, tetanus and whooping cough vaccine and type 1 diabetes; and between the inactivated influenza vaccine and exacerbation of asthma.
The report did find some links that are “convincing,” including several related to the varicella (chicken pox) vaccine and the chance of getting the virus itself from the vaccine. The MMR vaccine is also known to cause fever-related seizures, which the IOM noted “are generally benign and hold no long-term consequences,” and in very rare cases involving those with compromised immune systems (which is among the medical reasons for delaying or skipping some immunizations), the vaccine is known to cause a disease called measles inclusion body encephalitis. Six common vaccines can cause anaphylaxis, or severe allergic reaction. Several other links between vaccines and adverse events were found to be “generally suggestive,” though “not firm enough to be described as convincing.”
The vast bulk of reported problems (135 different links out of 158 studied) are so rare as to make it impossible to establish or reject a cause-and-effect relationship.
Institute of Medicine, August 2011: Vaccines offer the promise of protection against a variety of infectious diseases. Despite much media attention and strong opinions from many quarters, vaccines remain one of the greatest tools in the public health arsenal. Certainly, some vaccines result in adverse effects that must be acknowledged. But the latest evidence shows that few adverse effects are caused by the vaccines reviewed in this report.

James Cherry, a professor of pediatrics at the David Geffen School of Medicine at the University of California, Los Angeles, told us that some of the concerns about vaccines and brain damage actually extend further back, to the whooping cough vaccine administered in the early 1980s. There were claims that that vaccine was causing brain damage. Cherry published a review in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1990 that cited several studies that found no such effects.
The modern pertussis immunization is included in one vaccine with tetanus and diphtheria, and the compound that was falsely linked to brain damage decades ago is no longer present, Cherry said. The CDC acknowledges that there have been reports of permanent brain damage, but notes that “[t]hese are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine.”
Earlier on Feb. 2, Paul also appeared on Laura Ingraham’s radio show and spoke about vaccines.
Paul, Feb. 2: I was annoyed when my kids were born that they wanted them to take hepatitis B in the neonatal nursery, and it’s like, that’s a sexually transmitted disease, or a blood-borne disease, and I didn’t like them getting 10 vaccines at once, so I actually delayed my kids’ vaccines and had them staggered over time.

The hepatitis B vaccine is administered at birth because it can prevent transmission of the disease from mother to child. According to the CDC, hepatitis B infections in children have dropped 95 percent since 1990 as a direct result of that vaccine. As with other vaccines, the danger from hepatitis B immunizations is extremely low. Severe reactions occur in less than 1 in 1 million cases, and soreness and fever occur more frequently.
Furthermore, Paul’s contention that getting multiple vaccines at once could be risky is unfounded. Several studies have found that multiple vaccinations in a short period do not raise the risk of serious reactions.
For example, in 2013, a study published in the Journal of Pediatrics found that increasing exposure to the compounds found in vaccines does not raise the risk of autism spectrum disorders. Another study in Pediatrics in 2010 found that children vaccinated on time showed no adverse neuropsychological effects at 7 to 10 years of age compared with those whose vaccines were delayed; by some measures, the children vaccinated on time performed significantly better. One other study found that delaying the MMR vaccine actually increased the risk of seizures.
“It’s stupid,” said Cherry, referring to the idea of delaying and staggering immunizations. By delaying them, “that will allow these illnesses to occur. It’s no big deal when there’s nothing around and everybody is vaccinated, but it’s a big deal now” because of the measles outbreak.
On CNBC, Paul changed his claim of “10 vaccines at once” to “five and six,” which more accurately reflects the CDC immunization schedule. The hepatitis B vaccine is the only vaccine given at birth, with others following after a few months.
Public health officials have expressed concern that measles will reestablish a foothold in the U.S. In a press briefing on Jan. 29, U.S. Assistant Surgeon General Anne Schuchat noted that the 644 cases reported last year were the most in 20 years. Though it is relatively unfamiliar in this country, measles is still very common around the world, with about 20 million cases annually.
Schuchat, Jan. 29: In 2013, about 145,700 people died of measles across the world. … One in 12 children in the United States is not receiving their first dose of MMR on time.

She also noted that the MMR vaccine is safe, effective and “highly recommended.” But a small percentage of parents use religious and “philosophical” exemptions to avoid vaccinations; for example, in California, where the newest measles outbreak began, in the 2013-2014 school year, 17,253 children (3.1 percent of all children enrolled in kindergarten) received philosophical exemptions.
A spokesman from Paul’s office said in an email that the senator “believes that vaccines have saved lives, and should be administered to children. … He also believes many vaccines should be voluntary and like most medical decisions, between the doctor and the patient, not the government.”
Editor’s Note: SciCheck is made possible by a grant from the Stanton Foundation.
— Dave Levitan
Update, Feb. 4: Paul addressed the issue again in a New York Times story on Feb. 3. He said that he believes vaccines are safe and effective. “There’s 400 headlines now that say ‘Paul says vaccines cause mental disorders.’ That’s not what I said. I said I’ve heard of people who’ve had vaccines and they see a temporal association and they believe that,” Paul said. But that is not what Paul said initially on CNBC. As we already wrote, Paul said, “I have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, norml children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines.” By repeating that unfounded assertion regarding a link between vaccines and mental disorders, Paul spread misinformation regarding immunizations.
 
https://thepoxesblog.wordpress.com/2015/02/03/studies-show-filmmakers-are-not-experts-in-vaccines/

Studies show filmmakers are not experts in vaccines
Posted on February 3, 2015 by Reuben
Another day, another anti-vaccine “press release” from people who think they know better. This one would be extremely hilarious if it wasn’t deadly serious to put people at risk of contracting vaccine-preventable diseases. If you think that Michael Moore should run the Treasury Department, that Quentin Tarantino should be our Attorney General, or that Steven Spielberg should run NASA, then you’re going to love this press release from the makers of “The Greater Good,” an anti-vaccine “documentary” from anti-vaccine zealot Leslie Manookian.

The “press release” begins with a lie:

“Health officials are blaming unvaccinated children for the recent measles outbreak that started at Disneyland. However, with no blood tests proving the outbreak is from wild measles, the most likely source of the outbreak is a recently vaccinated individual, according to published science.”

Wrong! Big shout out to Todd W. for bringing to our attention this statement from CDC:

“Measles genotype information was available from 9 measles cases; all were genotype B3 and all sequences linked to this outbreak are identical. The sequences are also identical to the genotype B3 virus that caused a large outbreak in the Philippines in 2014. During the last 6 months, identical genotype B3 viruses were also detected in at least 14 countries and at least 6 U.S. states, not including those linked to the current outbreak.”

So, no, Leslie Manookian, the virus that is infecting people and making them sick and started off in Disneyland is not the vaccine strain. It’s very much the wild virus that infects and makes people sick in “Third World” countries. (Congratulations, America, you’re now in company with the Third World when it comes to vaccine preventable diseases.)

The press release continues:

“Scientific evidence demonstrates that individuals vaccinated with live virus vaccines such as MMR (measles, mumps and rubella), rotavirus, chicken pox, shingles and influenza can shed the virus for many weeks or months afterwards and infect the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.1,2 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.”

Those numbers are citations, because press releases should read like scientific papers in order to confuse Google University attendees into thinking that they’re reading something that is well-researched. The citations are cherry-picked studies and abstracts of studies that Leslie Manookian probably thinks support her theory. For example, this study (reference #2) looked at the urine of 12 children after they got the MMR vaccine. Ten of those 12 children had measles RNA (the genetic material) in their urine. To Leslie Manookian, this probably means that ten children having RNA and not the whole measles virus in their urine means that these kids are shedding measles at a phenomenal rate and making everyone sick.

Reference #4 is a paper on sibling transmission of Rotavirus vaccine strain virus. This one I actually know a lot about because I did some epidemiological data analysis when they first started noticing what was happening. To Leslie Manookian, this probably looks like a whole bunch of kids were getting diarrhea and dehydration from the vaccine strain after their siblings were vaccinated. To the professional epidemiologist and anyone with an ounce of scientific reasoning, this means that you don’t need to vaccinate all children for Rotavirus if you’re low on resources. Vaccinating one per household seems to spread the vaccine virus to others, giving them much slighter versions of the full-blown disease and in fact immunizing them against any further infection from the actual virus. It’s an effect that we have seen with polio as well, and something that we’ve built into immunization plans in order to maximize effectiveness when the program country doesn’t have the resources to get everyone vaccinated. As a bonus, the rate of complications from the vaccine strain are much, much lower than the rates of complications from the wild strain.

Let’s keep reading the press release:

“Furthermore, vaccine recipients can carry diseases in the back of their throat and infect others while displaying no symptoms of a disease.11,12,13
“Numerous scientific studies indicate that children who receive a live virus vaccination can shed the disease and infect others for weeks or even months afterwards. Thus, parents who vaccinate their children can indeed put others at risk,” explains Leslie Manookian, documentary filmmaker and activist. Manookian’s award winning documentary, The Greater Good, aims to open a dialog about vaccine safety.”

Those three references (#11, #12, #13) all do not say what they think they say. Number 11 is about how influenza is passed from one animal to another. Number 12 takes you to the same link as number 11, so a big fail there. And number 13 is a New York Times article that actually emphasizes the need for parents to be immunized against pertussis so that they don’t get it and pass it on to their too-young-to-be-vaccinated children. Do anti-vaccine loons ever read their own citations, or just the titles?

And, yes, you read that right. The authority on this matter is Leslie Manookian because she made an anti-vaccine film. Why else? And what awards did it win? According to Wikipedia, it won an award from the Amsterdam Film Festival in 2011 for “Cinematic Vision.” Yeah, that makes the three anecdotes in the movie totally legitimate.

For the remainder of the press release, we get this:

“Both unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals are at risk from exposure to those recently vaccinated. Vaccine failure is widespread; vaccine-induced immunity is not permanent and recent outbreaks of diseases such as whooping cough, mumps and measles have occurred in fully vaccinated populations.14,15 Flu vaccine recipients become more susceptible to future infection after repeated vaccination.16″

Again, their citations are all being used in a misleading way. Yes, both vaccinated and unvaccinated are at risk from exposure, but the vaccinated will get the disease at a rate hundreds or even thousands of times less than unvaccinated people. If you have 100 people and 90 of them are vaccinated, you can have an outbreak of 20 cases where 10 are vaccinated and 10 are not. But, when you do the math, 100% of the unvaccinated are sick while only 1/9th of the vaccinated are sick. Ten out of ten is more than one out of nine. Math, however, has never been in the anti-vaccine person’s realm of mastery.

To mislead you even more, the press release cites another expert:

“”Health officials should require a two-week quarantine of all children and adults who receive vaccinations,” says Sally Fallon Morell, president of the Weston A. Price Foundation. “This is the minimum amount of time required to prevent transmission of infectious diseases to the rest of the population, including individuals who have been previously vaccinated.””

It is the Weston A. Price Foundation that is putting out this press release, by the way. Sally Fallon Morell has degrees in English, with no apparent formal training in biology, medicine, or epidemiology. Yet that doesn’t stop her from making the ridiculously stupid suggestion that vaccinated children and adults should be quarantined. If her theory were to be true, which it is not, the quarantine should be longer than two weeks. After all, there are plenty of vaccine preventable diseases which have longer incubation times, like Hepatitis A. You should also note that they don’t make any distinction between live attenuated vaccines and killed vaccines, or vaccines that don’t even have whole viruses but only parts of them (like the acellular pertussis vaccine that we use today). The level of ignorance from Leslie Manookian and Sally Fallon Morell is phenomenal.

I’m impressed. I mean, look at this next in the press release:

“”Vaccine failure and failure to acknowledge that live virus vaccines can spread disease have resulted in an increase in outbreaks of infectious disease in both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals,” says Manookian, “CDC should instruct physicians who administer vaccinations to inform their patients about the risks posed to others by those who’ve been recently vaccinated.””

Sweet Jesus, this is ignorant. If anything, CDC should instruct physicians to give their patients a medal for wanting to be part of the herd and protect those who are too young, too old or too sick to be vaccinated.

The press release closes with the real intent and level of epidemiological misunderstanding and misinformation from the Weston A. Price Foundation:

“According to the Weston A. Price Foundation, the best protection against infectious disease is a healthy immune system, supported by adequate vitamin A and vitamin C. Well-nourished children easily recover from infectious disease and rarely suffer complications.

The number of measles deaths declined from 7575 in 1920 (10,000 per year in many years in the 1910s) to an average of 432 each year from 1958-1962.17 The vaccine was introduced in 1963. Between 2005 and 2014, there have been no deaths from measles in the U.S. and 108 deaths from the MMR vaccine.18″

These are probably the same loons that think that Ebola can be treated with IV vitamin C or something like that. And, no, well-nourished children don’t “rarely” suffer complications. The complications from things like measles are actually quite common, with ear infections, pneumonia, encephalitis, and even death being much more common in those who get measles than in those who get the MMR vaccine. How much more common? Thousands of times more common.

Finally, the idiots who drafted this press release tell us that the measles deaths were on the decline before the vaccine came online. That’s true. We learned to keep people alive with medical technology. We also developed antibiotics to treat secondary bacterial complications from measles. There was also more access to healthcare and such. What they don’t tell you is that we continued to have cases of measles right up until the end of the 1960s, once herd immunity really kicked in from the measles vaccine that was introduced in 1963. And that last reference, #18, is a paper from CDC talking about how much of a resounding success the MMR vaccine has been. And, much to your surprise, there is zero mention of the “108 deaths from the MMR vaccine” in that paper. That number has been thrown around from VAERS reports, a database of adverse events associated with vaccines to which anyone and everyone can report and which has counted as “vaccine associated” deaths involving drowning or car accidents months after the last vaccine was given.

Anti-vaccine zealots like Leslie Manookian and Sally Fallon Morell go out of their way to bring this kind of misinformation to the public through press releases. If they had one shred of credible evidence to what they say, scientists would listen. But we look at their interpretations of the articles they cite and laugh. No, seriously, we laughed. Someone suggested sending them a copy of a Godzilla movie to scare them into anti-nuclear activism so they can help stop the giant lizards that roam the ocean floors near Tokyo. Because that is the level of ignorance of science and biology that we’re dealing with here. Anyone who takes this press release as genuine medical advice or some kind of scientific breakthrough is a fool.
 
I see a lot of misinformation nowadays. It has grown in scope with each passing year since we had the option to log onto the internet with a dialup modem. Vaccinations were developed as a means to protect us from shit we otherwise couldn't fight or had any means to treat. The human body is an interesting machine and medical science of the time found a way to strengthen it, thank you Dr. Salk. Yes sometimes people have nasty reactions to the vaccines, yes unvaccinated children might not ever contract the things they are vaccinated for.... dice rolls are like that. I'm glad I was vaccinated when I was a child/baby/whenever they did that, I'm not autistic nor have I ever contracted any of the things I was vaccinated for. My mother however was a registered nurse as was my grandmother, not some celebrity using google to determine how to best make their offspring strong enough to survive in this crazy world.
 
I said years ago on this forum that viruses mutate and render vaccines useless and then this story then comes out recently into the mainstream media admitting that yes the flu vaccine given to millions of people is useless

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11393560/Flu-jab-given-to-millions-is-useless.html

[h=1]Flu jab given to millions is 'useless'[/h] [h=2]A warning has been circulated that the main strain of influenza has mutated since the jab was prepared[/h]
The flu vaccine given to millions of people in the UK barely works, health officials have admitted, amid warnings that the number of deaths this winter will be the worst for 15 years.

Public Health England (PHE) warned that the main strain of influenza in circulation - which is particularly lethal among the elderly – has mutated from the type that was used in the jab.

As a result, it is working in just three per cent of people given it, when it is normally effective in around half of cases.

And it has no effectiveness at all against the dominant strain of flu in circulation this winter, which is particularly dangerous in the elderly.

GPs are being urged to prescribe antiviral drugs to prevent cases in the most vulnerable, and in care homes where viruses are spreading.


The alert follows research on more 1,300 patients hospitalised with flu in the UK.
But questions are being asked about why health officials had not raised the alarm earlier, with concern that the rising number of cases of flu in those who had been vaccinated was not properly tracked.
Official data shows that as recently as December, PHE labs were monitoring samples of just 15 cases a week involving patients with the strain.
Last month, after The Telegraph highlighted doctors’ concerns that mutations in the
influenza virus were fuelling a rise in emergency hospital admissions, health officials said there was no evidence that the drift variant would become the dominant strain.
The current flu season has been dominated by circulation of influenza A(H3N2) subtype viruses.
Today, health officials said the surge in cases has resulted in care home outbreaks, hospitalisations and a rise in deaths in those over 65 years, health officials have said.
Latest figures show that the number of “excess deaths” this winter – those caused by flu and cold weather - is one third higher than average.
The death toll by spring is now predicted to be the worst since a landmark peak of 48,440 deaths in 1999/2000.
The new study found that the vaccine is protecting just 3.4 per cent of people from flu.
Those who were vaccinated were slightly more likely to get the most common A(H3N2) strain that those who did not have the jab.
Officials said the statistic meant the jab did not protect them against the strain at all, but did not mean the vaccination could increase the chance of flu.
The failure of the jabs is likely to explain some of the pressures on Accident & Emergency departments in recent weeks, which had the longest waits on record over Christmas.
Health officials says people should still get vaccinated to protect against other strains of flu, whose circulation could still rise.
The decision about which strains of flu would be most likely to be circulating this winter was taken 12 months ago by the World Health Organisation, with different vaccines recommended for the Northern and Southern hemispheres.
But the new research has found that those suffering from the drift strain of A(H3N2) would have been better protected if they were given the jab received on the other side of the globe.
The research warns that the mismatch between the vaccine and the virus is the lowest recorded in a decade.
In the United States, recent reports show the jab is effective in 22 per cent of cases with the A (H1N1) strain, while in Canada those who had the vaccine have recorded slightly higher rates of flu than those who did not have the jab.
Until recently, flu levels have been the highest for three years, but officials said cases are beginning to decrease.
Patients groups last night questioned why the alarm about Britain’s astonishingly low levels of protection had been raised so late in the flu season.
Katherine Murphy, chief executive of the Patients Association, said the disclosures were “extremely worrying” for those who thought they were protected against flu.
“It beggars belief that health officials weren’t aware just how badly the vaccine was working a long time ago,” she said. “If they didn’t realise the scale of the problem until now they aren’t doing their job properly.”
Health officials said that until the study was published, the size of the samples they examined depended on what the number of cases sent to them by NHS doctors.
Until January, PHE labs were monitoring samples of less than 25 cases of A (H3N2) flu a week.
Dr Richard Pebody, PHE’s head of flu surveillance, said: “The World Health Organization monitors influenza globally and each year recommends the strains of flu virus that should be included in the flu vaccine for the forthcoming flu season.
“It takes from February through to August / September to produce sufficient quantities of the flu vaccine. If a change in the virus is detected once production has started it is not possible to change it.”
He said there had “generally been a good match” between the vaccine produced and the strains which subsequently circulate, and urged people in at risk groups not to be discouraged from having flu vaccination now, or in the future.
“The current vaccine is still expected to protect against flu A(H1N1)pdm09 and flu B – both of which may yet circulate this season, so anyone in an at-risk group should still get vaccinated if they have not already,” he said.
“It’s not possible to fully predict the strains that will circulate in any given season, and there is always a risk of a drift occurring.”
 
Ok lets clear up some of the missinfo here and listen to the vaccine expert Dr Suzanne Humphries because perhaps some people missed this and its basically the most essential viewing in this thread

[video=youtube;SFQQOv-Oi6U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFQQOv-Oi6U#t=3790[/video]
 
US government caught lying about vaccines!!!!

[video=youtube;k9XRbjOQDvY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9XRbjOQDvY[/video]
 
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