View on tradition

arbygil said:
Tradition is okay, as long as you don't get mired in it. Some celebrations are fun, and some can bring fun memories. But overall tradition for the sake of tradition is b-o-r-i-n-g.

What I don't understand is, why do people feel like they *have* to have a turkey for Thanksgiving if no one wants to cook it? Why slave over a hot stove for the three-hour Sunday dinner if everyone wants pizza? And why not create new memories and cook creative meals?

But I guess if I had the two cats in the yard and the happy family and the 2.5 kids I might want some tradition. But I already know I'll have a very unusual household, if/when it happens. There might not be any room for tradition! :D
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Actually I think sometimes certain things have to do be done for the sake of tradition.

Or maybe on my side at least, since I'm ethnic chinese. With all the westernization, the last thing I want to lose is my culture, so I suppose some tradition has to be enforced.

I'd rather go for a million boring chinese new years reunion dinners (but beforehand slaving in the kitchen) and burn dozens of hell notes (and smell like smoke) during the ghost festival then to see 50 years down the road, then to see that my grandchildren have completely forgotten their heritage or culture.
 
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earthtocarrie said:
Or maybe on my side at least, since I'm ethnic chinese. With all the westernization, the last thing I want to lose is my culture, so I suppose some tradition has to be enforced.

I'd rather go for a million boring chinese new years reunion dinners (but beforehand slaving in the kitchen) and burn dozens of hell notes (and smell like smoke) during the ghost festival then to see 50 years down the road, then to see that my grandchildren have completely forgotten their heritage or culture.
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That is one thing that I do like about traditions. It hold so much history about a regions culture. I makes me feel almost sick when I hear that a culture to a region has been lost or purpousfly altered by outside sources. Acient cultures have this energy to them that can not be explained.

If anything, other cultures are just fun and interesting. We need to hold up traditions with it in order for it to stay alive.
 
earthtocarrie said:
Actually I think sometimes certain things have to do be done for the sake of tradition.

Or maybe on my side at least, since I'm ethnic chinese. With all the westernization, the last thing I want to lose is my culture, so I suppose some tradition has to be enforced.

I'd rather go for a million boring chinese new years reunion dinners (but beforehand slaving in the kitchen) and burn dozens of hell notes (and smell like smoke) during the ghost festival then to see 50 years down the road, then to see that my grandchildren have completely forgotten their heritage or culture.
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I think the relevant question is: why is it so important to maintain such culture?

Customs are replaced and changed all the time...it's a natural state of progress for human civilization. It seems a product of fear to hold onto traditions that are not relevant for the sake of tradition itself. I see little reason to fear individual cultural customs dying, it will happen someday anyways.

Now, an objection to this is going to be on aesthetic grounds. However, the aesthetics of past cultures still live on with us today...they are not all lost to history (not lost when a skilled effort to preserve them as taken place).

Instead, the better alternative seems to progress. Traditions often are at the forefront of retarding progress toward a better society. Although some traditions are just silly and don't retard progress at all (say, Halloween in the US), one has to recognize them as unimportant and having little consequence...and so would be overreacting to fear such a tradition dying.
 
Duty said:
I think the relevant question is: why is it so important to maintain such culture?

Customs are replaced and changed all the time...it's a natural state of progress for human civilization. It seems a product of fear to hold onto traditions that are not relevant for the sake of tradition itself. I see little reason to fear individual cultural customs dying, it will happen someday anyways.

Now, an objection to this is going to be on aesthetic grounds. However, the aesthetics of past cultures still live on with us today...they are not all lost to history (not lost when a skilled effort to preserve them as taken place).

Instead, the better alternative seems to progress. Traditions often are at the forefront of retarding progress toward a better society. Although some traditions are just silly and don't retard progress at all (say, Halloween in the US), one has to recognize them as unimportant and having little consequence...and so would be overreacting to fear such a tradition dying.
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Lots of traditions evoke a positive emotional response such as jewish barmitzvahs (for jews) or certain types of seasonal family gatherings (providing your family has good relations with each other). Therefore I don't see some of it as a bad thing.

And also, the past serves as a reference point which we use to understand where we're going. Sometimes its not harmful at all, really.

I enjoy watching chinese festivals for example, because they highlight the vibrancy of a culture, there are certain feeling tones that appear which cannot be replicated with any form of modern celebration -- just as I can see native american traditions (respect for the earth and all which dwell upon it, animal symbology) as another thing which is in danger of being lost in this ever changing world.

Progress has limits to what it can achieve.
 
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I think there's a good reason that S's make up 3/4 of the population in comparison to N's at 1/4. Nature was on to something.

I like change. I like new ideas and new things. But change at an accelerated rate can be devastating if there is not enough forethought to it. It is important that change happens with caution; otherwise, we miss important details and end up screwing it up.

Growth for the sake of growth is the philosophy of a cancer cell. All tradition does is act as a buffer; things will change, and that is the natural progression, but it's a good idea to approach change cautiously.
 
Carrie, I think there are balances. And this is also hard for me to say, because I'm African-American and I really do enjoy my cultural heritage. But I don't celebrate Kwanzaa because Kwanzaa holds no meaning for me. I've celebrated Judaism and predominantly Jewish holidays tho' I'm not Jewish, and I love getting involved and learning about other cultures (must be the travel bug in me).

What I don't like, though, is when cultures choose to look down on other cultures because they celebrate X and the other culture doesn't. I don't like celebrating traditions that have a history of celebrating mass murder, or distort history in general. But traditions that celebrate the family? Traditions that celebrate historical costumes, foods, and events of beauty? I'm all for that!

But traditions can also create stagnation and a proud spirit that states "my country is better than yours" and I don't like those kinds of traditions. But as I said it all depends on where you are, and what direction you're going.
 
Good use of buffer as a symbol. i agree, change should be be approached with caution rather than just jumped on, because if we do there is a great risk that we are overseeing consequenses. Furthermore, change is most often irreversible so yes it should be handled with caution!
 
gloomy-optimist said:
I think there's a good reason that S's make up 3/4 of the population in comparison to N's at 1/4. Nature was on to something.

I like change. I like new ideas and new things. But change at an accelerated rate can be devastating if there is not enough forethought to it. It is important that change happens with caution; otherwise, we miss important details and end up screwing it up.

Growth for the sake of growth is the philosophy of a cancer cell. All tradition does is act as a buffer; things will change, and that is the natural progression, but it's a good idea to approach change cautiously.
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Very good insight.
 
mayflow said:
I think this is really a strong differential between stj and the nfp. You look for this is, this is not or you don't want to say. nfp's start dreaming and seeing Rainbows and possibilites beyond any of these things. I understand you didn't catch on to what I said before about we can't be confined in prisons. That is not really different than merry talking about thinking outside of the box. Don't you see you just tried to put her in a box of your own mental creation? You just can't do that to an infp. They are like the Eagles in Anthony DeMellow's "Awareness" book, but not the ones that think they are chickens, but the ones that know and are aware that they are eagles. Eagles can fly and they will NOT be grounded. It's an AWARENESS thing. :smile:
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I have been thinking about what you said here for awhile. Im not sure I really understand what you are saying. The way you are presenting it is that stj's are enlightened and aware, which I am cool with that. But to claim you are aware is a catch 22 from what I got from DeMellos book Awareness. I get that from your Eagle analogy. You are saying that once you become (or are) an stj you are automatically aware.

As well by doing this you are putting all stj's in the awareness box and non stj's in the slumber box which is the opposite of what you were trying to say in the beginning. At least I thought so. Please clairify so I can understand what you are meaning.
 
I'm usually the first person to jump up and punch tradition in the face but I have since come to realise that, while there may not be sufficient reasons for some particular traditions to exist, there is a reason for the concept of tradition itself and an evolutionary one at that. At it's core tradition is a way of passing information from one generation to the next without each successive generation having to gain it for themselves. What this enables is things like language, culture, technology etc. All of these are what help to make society function. Additionally, progress is one of these factors, but change for the sake of change is still no better than tradition for the sake of tradition.
 
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