What do you think of SJ types?

The only experience I've had with SJs was my ISTJ father, whose life revolved around logic. Very grounded and able to pin my ideas to a wall and dissect them, helping me see what works and doesn't. He knew a lot, I was always able to ask him questions and know the information (and his conclusions/ideas) were up-to-date and thought-out.

"Boring" is a matter of perspective. Different interests, more like. Nit-pickish, but everyone has their quirks and habits.

Not much else to say, really. I look at people as people first, then categorize them by other things...eventually "type" gets checked off the list. Stereotypes are silly things
 
SJ? I think they are great. Probably the best of any group.
 
VH said:
Only the largest, and unfortunately unable to see that they are at the bottom of the intellectual food chain.
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Thats not nice.
 
VH said:
Yeah, but STJ's are always telling me how they don't care about 'nice'. "Facts are facts", and "that's just the way it is". (even when it is clearly not... they're just trying to steamroll their shortsighted perspective as fact.)
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I think you just lump everyone you dont like into the SJ group. Obviously there is at least one STJ type telling you that nice does matter. That would be me in case you didnt know.
 
VH said:
Nah, I'm just fuckin with ya. I highly value my 'good' STJs (of which I consider you one), and I generally like most of the SFJs I know.
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Im not sure you are. This is a pretty common sentiment of yours.
 
Well, I'm realising more and more that I'm going off my interpretation of the MBTI but I think I would describe my friend and my mam as ISFJs.

They both tend to go by experience, but they are both very intelligent and my friend is quite political nowadays. My friend tested as an INFJ but she thinks quite differently to me (but I might be the one that isn't an INFJ or maybe we both aren't).

What I have noticed is that we are similar in many, many ways but for different reasons.

For instance, I care what people think about me in a "have I said that right? Have I offended anybody?" way. She tends to care about what people think of her in more of a "am I interesting, cool, edgy enough" way. In school she got upset because there was a time everyone thought we were lesbians and it was a homophobic school (our parents got called in and stuff because they wanted us to act normal). In reality, we really weren't that much different from anyone else. One of my friends happened to be a lesbian, me and a few others dressed like goths at the time, but apart from that one we were all straight. I never said I was a lesbian to anyone (because I wasn't) but I also didn't make a big deal out of being called one. I saw it as my duty to stay on the right side of the battle. I didn't want to allow injustice - to allow all the homophobes to get away with their thinking because I stood down - I wanted to make sure everyone knew that although I wasn't gay (always made this clear) I wasn't upset that people thought I was. So I didn't stand down like I should have (and I did realise the trouble would go if I'd stood down) because it bothered me intensely that this injustice was being allowed to happen, I wanted the school to make a stand, sort this out, instead of waiting for us (the ones who had done nothing wrong) to cave so that status quo could be reached again.

My friend on the other hand, hated me for it. She thought I liked the drama and was perpetuating it. I wasn't out there stoking the fire,it was more that I would stand my corner if someone approached us about it. I just refused to say there was anything wrong with being gay. Not that my friend did either, she just didn't see what the problem was. She thought I should have being doing what was right for my friends, not standing up for some principle that would have no practical aim. Now I knew it would have no practical aim and nowadays, a little more mature, I wouldn't react the same way because it would be ineffective This just seems to me to show the difference a little. Me = "what's right in principle". Her = "what's best for the (our) group". This when we were 14 though. Nowadays, I never make a big show. I just don't get carried away and lean far more towards what's more effective. I am far, far more subtle nowadays.

I also find ISFJs to be very loyal and friendly. My friend can fit in with almost anybody and pick up lots of friends. But she keeps them separate. This was my feeling about the Si thing, actually. She refers to her friends as work friends, last job friends, uni friends, school friends, masters class friends - with me, I meet people from different places and get them together. If I have a party I invite everyone from different places. I don't tend to separate into "where I met them", more into what kind of people they are and then I generally can't wait for them to meet each other because I'm thinking oh so and so would get on with this person so much, they really have to meet. But I've known this friend for 14 years and have never met many of her friends even though they live close to me. She is very loyal, though, more loyal than me.

The other difference I have noticed is in our idea of "fairness". With her, fairness seems to mean balancing the books. It's similar with my boyfriend and it's the one thing that really annoys me about them both. To me, fairness means, ensuring one is not harmed above another. So here's an example. Me and my friends, if we're going to a gig or play, book tickets on one person's card so we're all sitting together and then the rest of us pay that person in cash (although there's usually a little wait until you next see them or you might not get the money until on the night). We swap around each time.

In a real life situ one person was unable to get the tickets until their pay day because they didn't have enough on their account for us all but we needed to get them straight away or we'd not get tickets. My friend's response (angrily) - you should get a credit card for these kinds of situations. My response - why doesn't whoever has the money pay this time round and then you can just pay twice in a row.

My boyfriend is exactly the same. Rules are RULES!!! The reason being that they both feel put upon, like the whole world is against them, if the books aren't balanced all the time. However, even if the books aren't balanced and they resent it, they won't leave. They'll stick by you for years.

I think they're nice people but there's parts of us that will clash. They tend to think that I don't care about them because I haven't noticed they've had their hair cut. Haircuts are beyond me. I have NEVER noticed if somone's had their hair done unless it's really dramatically different. the reason is not that I'm not paying attention to them, it's that I can't remember how it was last time!

EDIT - Another one. The people I assume are ISFJs are the ones who prioritise people above others or assume they should be someone's priority. "I am your girlfriend so you should make special time for me" or "you are my best friend so you should see me as your best friend too and prioritise me". I prioritise no-one, or rather, I prioritise depending on the situation rather than on the person. I would never prioritise my boyfriend (unless the situation called for it) and wouldn't expect him to do it for me.
 
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For the most part, I do not "type" people I interact with. I have pondered it a time or two about certain individuals I have constant contact with but, not casual contact. Generally speaking, I dislike people who are incapable of identifying when I do not wish to interact with them and am in a bad mood. I try and be obvious that I wish to be left alone non-verbally. There are just SOME people who cannot sense this and bother anyway.
 
roxtehproxy said:
but I think they're good friends overall. I don't like the hate others give them, which is probably because they're also an SJ or just have experience with the wrong kind. I'm unsure.
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My dearest friend is ESTJ...that says a lot about me and estj...:)
 
I admire them. I find them their traits to fit to theory; they tend to be practical, grounded and they get their shit done, no nonsense. You need at least a couple on your team if you want a good balance between the whole planning vs. doing aspect of a project. Especially if the group is prone to getting off track and zeroing in on pointless details; if they're motivated, their 'lets get to it' is a great way to obliterate group procrastination.

They're also fantastic at following instructions and they're easy to motivate.

As for what I think of them as people, and how well I get along with them, well, that's individual. I'm not going to judge an entire type on their likability based on a handful of experiences. That's just ridiculous.
 
Hoggle said:
Im not sure you are. This is a pretty common sentiment of yours.
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I've been thinking about this, and you are right.

I have had to endure a whole lot of hostility toward me for no other reason than I am who I am from STJs and a fair amount of SFJs over the course of my life, from childhood until now. While not all SJs are hostile toward people who are different from themselves, an unfortunate number of them are, and use the fact that most other people think like them as justification. They often call it being "normal", and have insisted therefore that there is no reason I shouldn't be like them. I've been chastised, ostracized, rejected, shunned, ridiculed, and emotionally (and even physically) attacked by SJs growing up, and I've been treated similarly as an adult - fired from jobs because of "personality conflicts" with SJs. (And yes, many of these people are still in my life as they are family or such, and have typed themselves as SJs - but I am assuming that others who shared their perspective, personalities, and other rather obvious traits were also SJs.)

One can only encounter enough negative experiences from a similar source before they begin to consider anything else that is similar to that source as potentially hostile. This is not a fair bias on my part, and I should get over my prejudices, which are more than likely an aggressive defense mechanism. Unfortunately, I have a lot of resentment built up and it has frequently, and unfairly, been applied to SJs (especially STJs). I'm a bit of an STJ biggot because I am predisposed to think that the sorts of things I have encountered before are likely to happen again, and therefore protect myself by taking a preemptive aggressive stance.

However, my biggest proof of this is the fact that I do have SJs (and even STJs) in my life that I get along with quite well - but I marvel at the fact that they're different from what I would expect. This means that I have an expectation of SJs behaving and treating me in similar fashion to what I've described. Otherwise, it wouldn't surprise me when SJs don't behave in such a way. Therefore, I've been projecting those expectations.

I never really considered it to this point, but then people with these sorts of issues never do because they're reflexive. My bad. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, despite my protests. I wouldn't have acknowledged it otherwise. Now that I'm conscious of it, I can start working on trying to be more tolerant and not projecting onto others.

I'm sorry for being a dick to you because of it. I've probably taken more than a few pot shots in your general direction (by association) without realizing it, or subconsciously as an attempt to "try to show you how it feels" to be surrounded by people who are alike and don't approve of the way you are - to turn the tables on an STJ for all the crap I've had to put up with. That's not fair to you or anyone else. Seriously, my bad.
 
We've been talking about same-sex SJs. But what about SJs of the opposite sex?

I find quite a few of them attractive, but somehow when I talk/flirt with them I always feel this underlying incompatibility. But I manage to click with them, though, if I put in a bit of effort.
 
I have a good friend who is an ISTJ and I have nothing negative to say about him. When he says he's going to do something or be somewhere at a certain time, better believe it will happen. I have known him for eight years and not once has he ever acted unkind or rude to anyone that I know of.
 
roxtehproxy said:
It does. But generally SJs are grounded and can make good friends when you think too much. There's a general tendency to be unimaginative but I think they're good friends overall. I don't like the hate others give them, which is probably because they're also an SJ or just have experience with the wrong kind. I'm unsure.
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mwahahahaha
 
Every type has their own virtues and shortcomings. Personally, I find that when I interact with SJ's my thought process differs from theirs, making it more difficult for me to relate to them on most levels. Their groundedness and adhesion to reality is almost unnerving to me.

With ISxJ's their Si's ability to connect what's tangible and general physical awareness sharply contrasts with my obliviousness to the moment's happenings.

With ESxJ's it's different; I can more readily relate to ESFJ's through Fe. ESTJ's on the other hand have the exact opposite functions, Te Si Ne Fi. My mother for example, sometimes I find her... insufferable.

Generally I feel a lot more comfortable with SFJ types than STJ types. Granted, there are some exceptions as well as the fact that people are all individual, so when I speak I'm using very broad generalities. So long as they're nice, I like people regardless of type ^_^
 
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