What do you think of when you hear the term survivalist?

The difference is the weekly shopper expects to be able to return to the store next week and find food on the shelves

The prepper/survivalist is not banking on there always being food on the shop shelves for whatever reason

No, but many do expect to have a solution before reserves run out which amounts to the same thing pretty much.

They would only survive insofar that they can get food again after their supplies run out. They BOTH want there to be more food after what they have runs out and the interim is irrelevant because neither are seeking food during that time. So they are actually the same when you get down to it.
 
No, but many do expect to have a solution before reserves run out which amounts to the same thing pretty much.

They would only survive insofar that they can get food again after their supplies run out. They BOTH want there to be more food after what they have runs out and the interim is irrelevant because neither are seeking food during that time. So they are actually the same when you get down to it.

I don't see them as the same

One is psychologically prepared for a disruptive event to occur and are taking steps to physically buffer themselves from the effects of it

The other one is not mentally or physically prepared and is going to be in a state of hungry shock if a shortage does occur
 
I don't see them as the same

One is psychologically prepared for a disruptive event to occur and are taking steps to physically buffer themselves from the effects of it

The otherone is not mentally or physically prepared and is going to be in a state of hungry shock if a shortage does occur

They can buffer themselves all they want but they will starve like everyone else if they didn't stock up enough.

It's also just as probable that many people will coincidentally stock up enough in time to not feel a brief shortage. If you just so happened to buy a weeks worth of groceries on the very day a week long food shortage starts, and it ends just as you need food again, what's the difference?

Practically speaking, mental preparedness doesn't save you from getting boned when your plan fails. Also practically speaking, depending on your stocks to last is putting yourself in the hands of fate just as much as a person who depends on things not running out. i.e. both are depending on something to go right.
 
I know it has a specified meaning in our society now...as a child I viewed the word survivalist as someone who can survive within their specified environment or even a variety of environments. There are prepper/stockpilers whom are survivalists and then there are others who seem to use the stockpiling as a safety blanket without having any actual skills necessary for their survival.

We have advanced as a species because we can survive just about anywhere with proper preparation and relevant skill sets. All this technological dependence has significantly weakened our basic survival abilities in the wilderness. I think it is a fine hobby for people to learn different survival skills. I would however caution someone from chasing their paranoia too far from the general happiness we can enjoy in the day to day. I would also caution the hobbyist stockpiler from advertising their preparedness. If a full breakdown were to occur, that is valuable intel....for us hobbyist raiders.
 
They can buffer themselves all they want but they will starve like everyone else if they didn't stock up enough.

That depends how long you think the shortage will last

It depends on what eventuality you are preparing for

Some are preparing for the downside of peak oil, some are preparing for a global crisis that leads to shortages and some are preparing for a breakdown ion law and order

VBut most of these would probably be over within 6 months. The only things that will last longer and require changes in every aspect of life are things like energy shortages

Here in the UK we faced severe rationing during the war and we turned over all public greespaces to growing vegetables as part of a 'dig for victory' campaign. We have already in the past made rapid changes to deal with severe shortages

In the 1970's OPEC price changes led to oil shortages which led to power outs and cut backs and strikes for example the bin men leading to rubbish pilling up in the streets

It's also just as probable that many people will coincidentally stock up enough in time to not feel a brief shortage.

You can't do that if the shelves are empty

If you wait for a crisis then EVERYONE will be stocking up at the same time. This can be seen duirng time sof oil supply uncertainties when garage forecourts get queues of cars

The induistrialised agriculture system requires oil; if the oil stops due to a conflict in the middle east then food production suffers and the shop shelves empty within days. Most people have maybe a weeks worth of food in their house. That means within 2 weeks of shelves not being re-stocked there would be food riots

Preppers don't want to be involved in the riots

Preppers also tend to buy weapons to shoot those trying to raid their supplies. Because they are on their home patch and are likely to have a game plan they are likely to come out on top too

If you just so happened to buy a weeks worth of groceries on the very day a week long food shortage starts, and it ends just as you need food again, what's the difference?

I don;t think preppers are preparing for a minor shortage such as a snow storm would bring. They are preparing for a national shutdown of some sort ie civil unrest on a large scale where they don't want to be on the streets

Practically speaking, mental preparedness doesn't save you from getting boned when your plan fails.

Mental preparedness leads to physical preparedness hence the british army 5 p's: prior planning prevents piss-poor performance

Also practically speaking, depending on your stocks to last is putting yourself in the hands of fate just as much as a person who depends on things not running out. i.e. both are depending on something to go right.

No its to avoid a level of chaos

So in russia when the revolution happened people were hungry and chanting 'bread', 'bread', 'bread'

They violently invaded the winter palace, but some were shot in the process

So in a breakdown of law a order and lot of crazy shit goes down that its best not to be caught up in, for example 2 posters have said here that they would steal other peoples food (if they think preppers would let them just walk away with it then they're kidding themselves). So if you are out on the streets scavenging you are likely to be mugged and robbed from or you could be caught up in violent clashes between the public and the authorities etc
 
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Me? No way. I have candles and a sparkling personality.

Oh sorry when people say ''when the lights go out'' they don't mean a short term power outage they are meaning a breakdown of the energy grid, which is what preppers and survivalists are preparing for

So if you've been calling them 'stiupid' and the grid fails leaving you without power or food or water then it will be you that was stupid for not preparing

http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/02/2...e-staggering-judge-jeanine-power-grid-threats
[h=3]'Our Death Toll Would Be Staggering': Judge Jeanine on Power Grid Threats[/h]The following is the transcript of Judge Jeanine Pirro's opening statement regarding threats to our nation's power grid:
Welcome to a special edition of Justice - I'm Judge Jeanine Pirro. Tonight - an hour long investigation into the dangers facing the U.S. power grid. What would it take to bring it down? And if our system did break down - how would you survive? And what would it be like in the dark?
Last month - I went to a meeting in Manhattan in the freezing cold. But when I came out of that meeting, I was frozen - not from the bitter temperatures - but from fear.
I learned things that *no one* is talking about... Things that can change my life, your life, and the lives of everyone you know... forever.
I started thinking about how fragile life is - and how ill-prepared we are for this.
Tonight - in an exclusive Justice investigation - the vulnerability of America's power system - the United States' electric grid. Are we ready for a terror attack - and what would we do if the lights go out?
Tonight is about a series of forces and individuals who instead of doing the right thing for you and me are playing politics and are gambling with your safety and way of life.
Who of us could ever envision 9/11 happening? But the difference between 9/11 and what I'm about to tell you is that we *know* this can happen - the question is not *will* it happen but *when* will it happen.
And the consequences would be a million times worse than 9/11. One day you're enjoying the comforts of life... The next - everything is different. Civilization as you know it would be gone.
An electromagnetic pulse would destroy all electronics, and the transformers that power *everything"... *anything* with an on/off switch. Your hot water heater. Your refrigerator. Your dialysis machine. Hospitals are closed. Grocery shelves are empty - most of the food you have at home is spoiled.
And forget about your bank accounts. What you have in your pocket is all you can access.
I imagine myself waking up to total darkness - nothing in my home working. Food spoiled. Water not running. I rummage through whatever last cans of food i can find. I'm alone - because my kids and loved ones have no way to get to me.
I'm afraid to leave because it's too dangerous. People are desperate and hungry. Our civilization thrown back to the dark ages.
I'm scared. Helpless. And I don't know *how* I will survive.
If there were to be such a catastrophic failure, our death toll would be staggering.
A blue ribbon commission predicting mass fatalities, horrific loss of life... Some say 9 out of 10 Americans would die.
This is not science fiction - it's *real*.
Tonight - we'll tell you about the ways this could happen:
A solar flare.
An electromagnetic pulse.
A nuclear device.
Cyber attack.
Or a simple physical assault - all of which would break down our society as we know it.
In this complicated world we live in, many wish America destruction. But it is he who has the capacity, ability, and inclination to act on that ill will against whom we must be vigilant.
Scientists say an EMP created by a nuclear weapon at high altitude is the most efficient way to take out America's electric grid, telecommunication networks and all critical infrastructures.
As I stand here now - North Korea has a satellite the size and weight of a small nuclear weapon orbiting at an altitude conducive to an EMP attack and it approaches our country from the south - a direction which lacks early warning or missile defenses.
The threat can also be from the sea.
Fact: Six month ago, two full up nuclear capable missiles on their launchers were discovered in Panama on a North Korean flagged vessel hidden under sugar bags.
Reports are that our grid has already been penetrated by our enemies leaving behind software programs that can compromise it.
There are other ways to take down our grid. A simple direct physical attack like an assault on a local sub station.
Fact: Ten months ago, unknown attackers attempted to blow up a San Jose transformer substation in a military style raid.
No one has been apprehended. The FBI and local police call it vandalism. As if Billy Bob and Bubba - after a few beers - get their hands on AK-47s and surgically knock out 17 transformers and 16 circuit breakers *after* cutting underground fiber optic cables and outsmarting security cameras and motion sensors.
These terrorists are still out there.
Less than a week later - in a shockingly similar attack in Tennessee - a suspect on a boat fired shots at a nuclear power plant, then engaged police. A trespasser? Someone armed from the water willing to engage in a shootout with law enforcement is *certainly* not Bubba with a few beers in him.
Even if *no one* attacks our grid - the sun will.
The earth is exposed to intense solar flaring roughly every 150 years. The last time it occurred was 1859. Do the math - we're due.
I'm not saying this to panic anyone - but *everyone* - including our enemies, know that an artificially created electromagnetic pulse will shut down all power... which risks our survival.
We possess the world's largest power distribution system. What is our government doing to make sure that our grid - likened be some to that of a third world country - is protected?
Are we ready for an attack on our grid and the catastrophic failure that would result?
 
[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]
I am sure that you have valid points but your post is so long that, truthfully, I stopped reading after the first two sentences. To clarify, I would never call anyone stupid. It was the survivalist calling others stupid for being on the grid.
 
[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

6 months of food is a fuckton of food and prepping for that is likely to CAUSE shortages. It's also ridiculous to keep that much around, unless you're like putting whole deer in a freezer or something.

But NONE THE LESS I'm not saying that one shouldn't keep extra food. I'm saying don't depend on it to be your main and only strategy. Your idea seems to be to solve everything by stacking on as much food as it takes while never bothering to learn any skills and I think that is the wrong approach.

I mean for example, how do they handle survival of downed military pilots? Is it by putting a shit ton of food on the aircraft? No. It's giving the pilot a survival kit and teaching them how to use it.

Keeping some food is a good idea but I think it is really dumb to be your ONLY idea and is not any kind of preparedness at all. Without that food they're still weak and unskilled probably and there's no reason that one shouldn't change that. I'm not even saying that people have to go full military and learn enemy evasion tactics and shit, just at minimum learn how to start a fire and maybe how to fish or something.
 
[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

Moreover if one learns survival skills they can be mobile and they don't necessarily have to chant for bread or worry about their food being stolen. If you have a massive food stockpile that is just asking for the unprepared to come stealing and if you have no skills then you'll be stuck defending your food pile. That's choosing to back yourself into a corner, especially in an urban setting.

If you know how to get food off the land then you don't have to worry as much about defending your cache with your life. But if things get as bad as you say and your cache is the only thing saving you then it'd be your own fault that you stuck yourself in a hot zone and can't leave it. It'd be your own fault that your last resort is to fight off looters because it could be avoided by not depending on stockpiles which must be guarded and probably can't easily be moved.
 
[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

Also a person who is hungry and desperate enough to attack has nothing to lose and if you have all the food, you have a lot to lose, and if you even get injured you're going to have problems surviving. Having guns doesn't make you fucking Rambo - we're still mortal humans.
 
I think of someone who has an interesting and extreme hobby exploring a skill set that has been rendered relatively obsolete in today's society and someone who I'd like to be friends with if there was ever a zombie apocalypse. :P

Whatever their reasons for preparing themselves, though, whether they're right or wrong in their predictions, I don't think it's really all that stupid of an idea to know how to take care of yourself when you don't have the luxury of a grocery store down the street and all the trappings of a modern living. We might not get an apocalypse like in the movies, but a war or a natural disaster isn't all that far-fetched a thing to contend with.

I'm with @sprinkles on this one. Food stores won't really do you much good as much as having basic survival training.

Hell, I think of myself and this one time I was present when my aunt decided to make us all a fresh chicken dinner out in the country---and I mean *fresh*--- and the horror I felt when she brought the kill back and asked me to help her pluck the feathers. I just know I'd be the most incompetent hunter; I can't imagine being in a situation where I would have to hunt down and skin a rabbit...
 
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I think of someone who has an interesting and extreme hobby exploring a skill set that has been rendered relatively obsolete in today's society and someone who I'd like to be friends with if there was ever a zombie apocalypse. :P

Whatever their reasons for preparing themselves, though, whether they're right or wrong in their predictions, I don't think it's really all that stupid of an idea to know how to take care of yourself when you don't have the luxury of a grocery store down the street and all the trappings of a modern living. We might not get an apocalypse like in the movies, but a war or a natural disaster isn't all that far-fetched a thing to contend with.

In my opinion, food stores won't really do you much good as much as having basic survival training.

Basic survival is pretty easy to learn and isn't all that hardcore. It's not like you have to be Bear Grylls eating grubs and drinking your own piss. You only really need to do that if like you survived a plane crash in the middle of the tundra or something.

A lot of people do the same stuff basically for FUN. It's called fishing, hunting, and camping. It's not crazy and doesn't hurt you to learn.
 
Basic survival is pretty easy to learn and isn't all that hardcore. It's not like you have to be Bear Grylls eating grubs and drinking your own piss. You only really need to do that if like you survived a plane crash in the middle of the tundra or something.

A lot of people do the same stuff basically for FUN. It's called fishing, hunting, and camping. It's not crazy and doesn't hurt you to learn.

Yes, it is a hobby.

As for being easy, well, see my chicken story above. We're all rather socialized in modern society. its interesting how the average person has never had to kill their own dinner.
 
Yes, it is a hobby.

As for being easy, well, see my chicken story above. We're all rather socialized in modern society. its interesting how the average person has never had to kill their own dinner.

I find it quite ironic that humans built technology from literally nothing and now many almost completely depend on it. Dependence has always made me uncomfortable. I've never liked to throw my hands up and just depend on things being there, but then again there have been times where I've had to live with little and improvise to survive. Times where I wouldn't have had the luxury to stock up on pre-made food because I couldn't hardly afford to have food for the moment let alone a stockpile for later.

Being able to actually stockpile food is a pretty big luxury to begin with. Many are not that fortunate.
 
@muir
I am sure that you have valid points but your post is so long that, truthfully, I stopped reading after the first two sentences. To clarify, I would never call anyone stupid. It was the survivalist calling others stupid for being on the grid.

I appreciate that but if you look at the situation objectively he is right; it IS stupid to live on the grid

It makes us all corporate slaves

To use a real world example the Bechtel corporation bribed politicians in Bolivia to get them to privatise the water utilities there and then they bought the water rights from the government

Because the water utlity was then privately owned by a corporation it wanted to wring as much profit fro it as it could so it raised water prices. Soon no one could afford water so they started collecting rainwater and using that.

Bechtel then went back to the government and got them to pass laws making it illegal for people to collect rainwater!!!!!!!!!!!!

Illegal to collect rainwater!!!!!!!!

We are soveriegn beings upon this planet which is our mother earth; we have a right to collect rainwater that is part of natural law

The corproation Bectel sought to do away with out natural law right to collect rainwater so the bolivian people rose up and protested and because they did it in large enough numbers the government capitulated and re-nationalised the water supply

The thing about girds is that they can be controlled and surveilled and even polluted (eg water with industrial byproduct flouride)

We have past peak oil and there is a lot of talk of water shortages in the future (especially in california) and the national energy grid has proven shaky at best with the government also runnign drills to deal with cyber attacks and foods are now full of GMO's (in the US) so its really looking like quite a sensible time to be becoming self sufficient
 
I appreciate that but if you look at the situation objectively he is right; it IS stupid to live on the grid

It makes us all corporate slaves

To use a real world example the Bechtel corporation bribed politicians in Bolivia to get them to privatise the water utilities there and then they bought the water rights from the government

Because the water utlity was then privately owned by a corporation it wanted to wring as much profit fro it as it could so it raised water prices. Soon no one could afford water so they started collecting rainwater and using that.

Bechtel then went back to the government and got them to pass laws making it illegal for people to collect rainwater!!!!!!!!!!!!

Illegal to collect rainwater!!!!!!!!

We are soveriegn beings upon this planet which is our mother earth; we have a right to collect rainwater that is part of natural law

The corproation Bectel sought to do away with out natural law right to collect rainwater so the bolivian people rose up and protested and because they did it in large enough numbers the government capitulated and re-nationalised the water supply

The thing about girds is that they can be controlled and surveilled and even polluted (eg water with industrial byproduct flouride)

We have past peak oil and there is a lot of talk of water shortages in the future (especially in california) and the national energy grid has proven shaky at best with the government also runnign drills to deal with cyber attacks and foods are now full of GMO's (in the US) so its really looking like quite a sensible time to be becoming self sufficient

When you buy supermarket food you're on the grid.

Stockpiling food is essentially stockpiling energy. You're on the grid if that's what you depend on. It would be like taking a thousand hours of electricity from the grid and putting it in batteries and saving it for later. That's still grid energy. You've just changed your time slot for using it and bumped it off until later.
 
I find it quite ironic that humans built technology from literally nothing and now many almost completely depend on it. Dependence has always made me uncomfortable. I've never liked to throw my hands up and just depend on things being there, but then again there have been times where I've had to live with little and improvise to survive. Times where I wouldn't have had the luxury to stock up on pre-made food because I couldn't hardly afford to have food for the moment let alone a stockpile for later.

Being able to actually stockpile food is a pretty big luxury to begin with. Many are not that fortunate.

Which is why people who hoard canned food in their basement aren't really prepared to survive anything, they're just neurotic people who rationalize their behavior.

If you're serious about preparing for a total collapse of society, you better be your own engineer, butcher, agriculturist, tailor, carpenter, smith, armorer, doctor, and a bunch of other things, because it's gonna be a looooot harder to find people with those skill sets without community.
 
@muir

6 months of food is a fuckton of food and prepping for that is likely to CAUSE shortages. It's also ridiculous to keep that much around, unless you're like putting whole deer in a freezer or something.

As others have said 'preppers' are stockpilers and 'survivalists' are people who build the skills to exist beyond the grid

So a prepper would put a deer in the fridge but a survivalist would know how to kill and skin a deer as and when required

You could think of a stock of food as an insurance policy hedging against the incompetence of malevolent intentions of the government except its better than an insurance policy because you can eat it

But NONE THE LESS I'm not saying that one shouldn't keep extra food. I'm saying don't depend on it to be your main and only strategy. Your idea seems to be to solve everything by stacking on as much food as it takes while never bothering to learn any skills and I think that is the wrong approach.

No thats not my idea, i can catch, hunt and skin animals.

Like delta i'm also looking to go off grid and grow my own vegetables. In the meantime i by direct from an organic farmer

I mean for example, how do they handle survival of downed military pilots? Is it by putting a shit ton of food on the aircraft? No. It's giving the pilot a survival kit and teaching them how to use it.

A downed pilot is only trained to escape and evade for a short period of time until they can be evacuated

Keeping some food is a good idea but I think it is really dumb to be your ONLY idea and is not any kind of preparedness at all. Without that food they're still weak and unskilled probably and there's no reason that one shouldn't change that. I'm not even saying that people have to go full military and learn enemy evasion tactics and shit, just at minimum learn how to start a fire and maybe how to fish or something.

Sure i would advice that

I've been on courses myself

Many people are total urbanites though and don;t get much exposure to the countryside; their view might be that in order to avoid the initial lawless period in the event of some sort of system breakdown it might be worth having some supplies tucked away

Personally i'd also be advising anyone who has spare money to invest in gold and silver (held physically and NOT kept in the banking system) but then that would mark me out as an 'extremist' under FBI guidelines as to their paymasters (the FED) paper money is king

Meanhwile the bankers themselves eg soros and greenspan are buying gold or if you're warren buffet you buy a railway. Why buy a railway? Because it is a physical tangible asset and it can be used to transport goods in a post-paper-money system thereby providing something to trade

TANGIBLE ASSETS is where its all going...back to whats REAL

Shelter, food, clean water, guns'n'ammo & gold....all those things are real and have been real for a very long time
 
Which is why people who hoard canned food in their basement aren't really prepared to survive anything, they're just neurotic people who rationalize their behavior.

If you're serious about preparing for a total collapse of society, you better be your own engineer, butcher, agriculturist, tailor, carpenter, smith, armorer, doctor, and a bunch of other things, because it's gonna be a looooot harder to find people with those skill sets without community.

Yeah and besides, if you hoard where you live all it takes is a molotov and you're fucked.
 
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