What do you think of when you hear the term survivalist?

[muir]

So if someone tries to take something that is yours (food, shelter, your GUN, etc.) then you feel you have the right to shoot them dead (especially in such a stressful situation)? Killing another human being is a-OK in this scenario?

I think realistically speaking if there are food shortages and law and order has broken down and someone tries to force their way inot the home of a prepper my guess is it wouldn't end well

Don't you think you should consider other options? Do you have to kill them? I mean, if you are going to go through all of that planning to survive when shtf then you could probably plan out a way to capture these people instead of murdering them, right?

To shoot someone down like that in cold-blood without first understanding his situation just seems cruel. What if he had a family to feed? What if he had mental issues and was out of meds, therefore, causing him to lose it? What if he felt oppressed over difficulties he encountered throughout his life, making him feel that if he wanted something, he needed to take it with force instead of approaching it the right way (something that never worked for him)?

Don't you think every person deserves more than that?

Or, in those few stressful and out of control minutes, is it just about your problems and your survival?

[MENTION=12327]Anywhere But Here[/MENTION]

I think it depends very much on the situation, each person is going to exercise their judgment

But we're talking about preppers here and i'm saying that most preppers are not going to stand by and watch their stockpile be looted in a catastrophic crisis of whatever kind

What you really mean is as opposed to a policeman shooting an unarmed person when they are not in any danger?

Yeah i think a person defending their home and family and life from aggressive attackers has more right to fight against violent intruders than a person who is hired by the public to keep the peace has in shooting down an unarmed member of the public yes

One is a life or death situation where there is no other option the other is a mercenary shooting someone cos they hurt their pride

Big difference

 

[sprinkles]

It really depends on the situation you are preparing for

So in weimar gemrnay for example when peoples savings were wiped out overnight by hyper inflation people didn't start attacking each other and burning down appartment blocks

Lfe goes on but peoples priorities change back to the essentials

If you're talking about a breakdown of law and order then food stocks will serve you well as would good relation with your community



If your 'crisis situation' is food shortages then you're looking at food riots as people raid stores; law enforcement would be given martial law powers but the crush would be over pretty quikly as the shops emptied

If it's that nice then it's not a survival situation. It's inconvenience. That's not something I would freak out over and worry that I'm never going to have food again.

To worry that your food is really gone and not coming back any time soon like we were talking about earlier would take something worse than this. It is really improbable that nobody will be able to get ANY kind of food to live on without some truly epic disaster. And if we have that it's not going to be patched up in a few days through martial law. If it gets to that level we have to start asking if there will even be anyone to enforce martial law to begin with.

 

[muir]

If it's that nice then it's not a survival situation. It's inconvenience. That's not something I would freak out over and worry that I'm never going to have food again.

I think those who had stockpiled in weimar germany had an easier time of it then those that didn't

To worry that your food is really gone and not coming back any time soon like we were talking about earlier would take something worse than this. It is really improbable that nobody will be able to get ANY kind of food to live on without some truly epic disaster. And if we have that it's not going to be patched up in a few days through martial law. If it gets to that level we have to start asking if there will even be anyone to enforce martial law to begin with.

The globalists are going to try and tear up the constitution at some point and i cannot see a lot of people sitting by idly while they do that

What would be the effects of that?

The catalyst for the move will have been a crisis of some sort in the first place....here's david rockefellers words about it:

"This present window of opportunity, during which a truly peaceful and interdependent world order might be built, will not be open for too long... We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis, and the nations will accept the New World Order." - David Rockefeller speaking at the United Nations Ambassadors' dinner. [Sept. 23, 1994]

The crisis might be enough to create civil unrest over shortages of some kind and then civilian resistance to the authorities attempts to change the system might compound that which might also include mass rebellion within the military

So what scenarios are we potentially talking about?

The fuel pumps emptying, the power grids goind down, the shops empyting, fighting in the streets etc How catastrophic do you want to go?

For what sort of period of time? Who knows

 

[SealHammer]

You can trade gold direct for food and other supplies

Imo its about having something to trade

You can trade tangible assets and sometimes even your labour

If you're talking about a total breakdown in law and order then food, bullets, medicines are going to be the order of the day

who is going to want to trade their labor, seeds, books, lifesaving water for your heavy useless metal.

 

[muir]

who is going to want to trade their labor, seeds, books, lifesaving water for your heavy useless metal.

It depends on what sort of scenario you are dealing with

If you're looking at an economic crisis then gold is going to be a good way to store value

If you are a looking at a break down in law and order for an indeterminate amount of time then you are going to want essentials

 

[sprinkles]

How catastrophic do you want to go?

For what sort of period of time? Who knows

I'm not looking to ask that question. I'm looking to be able to say that no matter how far it does go, I'll either handle it or die trying.

 

[muir]

I'm not looking to ask that question. I'm looking to be able to say that no matter how far it does go, I'll either handle it or die trying.

Sure so will everyone else

Those that have prepared will have improved their odds of handling it

 

[sprinkles]

Sure so will everyone else

Those that have prepared will have improved their odds of handling it

Yes all I was saying is don't assume you have prepared enough when you don't know what you'll be facing.

 

[muir]

Yes all I was saying is don't assume you have prepared enough when you don't know what you'll be facing.

I'm not assuming anything

I think there are a bunch of crises that would create the same sort of problems

 

[sprinkles]

I'm not assuming anything

My point is those who are prepared are helping themselves more in the event of a crisis

Ugh!

A lot of preppers do seem to assume that, and this fact has been the entire point of this extended exchange!

 

[SealHammer]

It depends on what sort of scenario you are dealing with

If you're looking at an economic crisis then gold is going to be a good way to store value

If you are a looking at a break down in law and order for an indeterminate amount of time then you are going to want essentials

So you admit that gold is a terrible investment in the context of long-term social and governmental breakdown, as was discussed at the head of this exchange.

 

[muir]

Ugh!

A lot of preppers do seem to assume that, and this fact has been the entire point of this extended exchange!

Don't sweat it!

If you're confident nothing will happen then don't do anything

If you think something might happen then take some relevant steps to assuage your fears

Buying some pasta and some tinned food and some candles though doesn't in my book make someone a weirdo!

The rest is down to the cosmos

 

[cvp12gh5]

I think realistically speaking if there are food shortages and law and order has broken down and someone tries to force their way inot the home of a prepper my guess is it wouldn't end well


[MENTION=12327]Anywhere But Here[/MENTION]

I think it depends very much on the situation, each person is going to exercise their judgment

But we're talking about preppers here and i'm saying that most preppers are not going to stand by and watch their stockpile be looted in a catastrophic crisis of whatever kind

What you really mean is as opposed to a policeman shooting an unarmed person when they are not in any danger?

Yeah i think a person defending their home and family and life from aggressive attackers has more right to fight against violent intruders than a person who is hired by the public to keep the peace has in shooting down an unarmed member of the public yes

One is a life or death situation where there is no other option the other is a mercenary shooting someone cos they hurt their pride

Big difference

Are you a prepper or a survivalist? You seem to know a lot about it which makes me believe you are. Which also makes me believe you would shoot. But maybe I'm reading into your words...or maybe not.

I wanted your opinion on what scenarios you felt would make it acceptable to take another human life. All life is valuable regardless of the situation. So shouldn't you consider an alternative solution rather than spraying the intruder with bullets? Again, you don't know the persons back story. He could have a family waiting for him that is dying of starvation.

If you are a prepper/survivalist that claims to care about human life, then it would only make sense to have a plan that doesn't involving shooting first. If you captured him, talked to him to get his story, then you might understand and want to help him. Why jump right to violence? Two wrongs don't make a right.

So, no, it wasn't about the Michael Brown shooting. But I can see how your mind would have went there.

 

[muir]

So you admit that gold is a terrible investment in the context of long-term social and governmental breakdown, as was discussed at the head of this exchange.

Depends

For most people yes but for those with spare money then its a good investment like i said about the aristocracy of europe

They would pack their gold off to vaults in switxerland for years at a time during wars and then reclaim it afterwards

Most people don;t have the spare cash to spend on gold so i was mentioning it as a theoretical thing.....kinda like what i would do if i had the money sort of thing

For most regular people i think having a few essentials tucked away is no bad thing. Kinda helps you relax in a crazy world as well...cos you know you have the basics covered and psychologically it helps to feel you have done something

Its like many things...it operate son a spectrum

Soem people might have a bit of petrol tucked away in their shed and some candles and tinned food in the cupboard whilst some people build underground bunkers with freezedried foods to last them years!

I guess the spectrum is really a fear spectrum

We do live in an unstable world but at the same time we have to live our lives in a positive way so to what extent do you want to give into fear and to what extent do you want to manage it? Do you know what i mean?

if you turn on the news and it makes you anxious with all the fergusson riots and so on then if buying some supplies helps settle you down then i don;t see the problem with it; some are so concerned that the only way they can live with their fear is to build a bunker

At the same time though i think people need to also be thinking about possible positive outcomes

So for example while i discuss what the bad guys are plotting i do it in the hope that the public can use that knowledge to avert the plot and build their own new order....that's my hope....to see greater democracy, greater freedoms and less poverty

Fear isn;t necessarily a bad thing...its a tool to warn us of potential dangers; as long as fear is always proportionate to the threat its ok

 

[cvp12gh5]

Gold will be useless. Bartering (food, water, skills, etc.) would be the new method.

 

[muir]

Are you a prepper or a survivalist?

I'm a realist

You seem to know a lot about it which makes me believe you are. Which also makes me believe you would shoot. But maybe I'm reading into your words...or maybe not.

I was really speaking about preppers in general and responding to a couple of posts where some people said they would just steal from preppers; i then made the point that most preppers if they have gone to the trouble of prepping will be armed

So i find thsi idea of looting form preppers to be unrealistic. I'd say preppers will be prep'd for defence...don't you think?

I wanted your opinion on what scenarios you felt would make it acceptable to take another human life. All life is valuable regardless of the situation. So shouldn't you consider an alternative solution rather than spraying the intruder with bullets? Again, you don't know the persons back story. He could have a family waiting for him that is dying of starvation.

I was really responding to sprinkles posts where she was outlining a nightmare scenario of total lawlessness and bands of crackheads going round buring down apartment buildings!

I thought under such circumstances preppers would be likely to do ok

As i've said i encourage community spirit in the time of crisis. here people would pull together and share resources and defence. This would likely lead to less violent situations as citizens managed their own communites and kept stability

I don't advocate violence except as a last resort but i do believe in self defence when a person is backed into their own home and has no option but to fight.

I don't see police as being in that situation because they have put themselves in that role where they are supposed to DE-ESCALATE situations not escalate them

When i worked in a psychiatric hospital i saw plenty of examples of different ways to manage siutaions and i saw that some people were good at defusing things whilst others were just inflamatory

Police should be professional and respectful at all times and carry in their mind the thought that their responsibility is to the safety of the public. However i believe a change is occuring whereby the police are being chosen at recruitment stage for their aggressive qualities and are being trained to dominate the public which is going to have different effects. it might cow some people while aggrevating others.

If you are a prepper/survivalist that claims to care about human life, then it would only make sense to have a plan that doesn't involving shooting first. If you captured him, talked to him to get his story, then you might understand and want to help him. Why jump right to violence? Two wrongs don't make a right.

capturing people is a risky business, but i think a reasonable thing to do would be to shout a warning to anyone trying to break into your property

This might discourage some or start a dialogue with others

if they answer back ''hello, i'm starving and my family are here too and they need food'' you then have the problem of finding out if thats true or a ruse to get you to drop your defences

But verbal warnings are i think the minimum that should go on

So, no, it wasn't about the Michael Brown shooting. But I can see how your mind would have went there.

Well you sure made it sound like it was!

The michael brown shooting was not self defence

The cop had options to leave the guy alone and call in back up; by some accounts he went in aggressively and escalated the situation

 

[muir]

Gold will be useless. Bartering (food, water, skills, etc.) would be the new method.

Gold is a store of value

Its what you put your money into once you have all the other things you need (if you have any money left over)

 

[sprinkles]

Don't sweat it!

If you're confident nothing will happen then don't do anything

If you think something might happen then take some relevant steps to assuage your fears

Buying some pasta and some tinned food and some candles though doesn't in my book make someone a weirdo!

The rest is down to the cosmos

You weren't paying attention to what I was saying. Again.

This would not be your reply to me if you had been.

 

[muir]

You weren't paying attention to what I was saying. Again.

This would not be your reply to me if you had been.

You just sound concerned and i'm making the point that we can prepare to a certain extent in life and then we just have to go with the flow

So i'm saying that if you are concerned with the stability in your county and it will make you feel better then make some preparations

If not then don't give it any more thought

Some people can't help giving it thought and i'm one of those people

I saw some crazy shit going on in my world and wanted some answers and in that process i looked into it and found out that there is instability in the global economy

So what can the average person do about that? Well small things really

If you're just saying that preppers are assuming that they're prepared for the right kind of crisis i would say that a lot of it is about dealing with fear

The world can seem like a crazy and unstable place and we all deal with that in different ways; some ignore it and pretend its not happening and some who can't ignore it then try to make preparations for possible eventualites

I think its about trying to strike a balance...do what you can to pro-actively work towards a positive outcome whilst at the same time trying to lead a normal and happy life

For some to keep on an evenkeel in the face of uncertainty they take precautions...sometimes going to great lengths...i can understand it

 

[cvp12gh5]

I'm a realist



I was really speaking about preppers in general and responding to a couple of posts where some people said they would just steal from preppers; i then made the point that most preppers if they have gone to the trouble of prepping will be armed

So i find thsi idea of looting form preppers to be unrealistic. I'd say preppers will be prep'd for defence...don't you think?



I was really responding to sprinkles posts where she was outlining a nightmare scenario of total lawlessness and bands of crackheads going round buring down apartment buildings!

I thought under such circumstances preppers would be likely to do ok

As i've said i encourage community spirit in the time of crisis. here people would pull together and share resources and defence. This would likely lead to less violent situations as citizens managed their own communites and kept stability

I don't advocate violence except as a last resort but i do believe in self defence when a person is backed into their own home and has no option but to fight.

I don't see police as being in that situation because they have put themselves in that role where they are supposed to DE-ESCALATE situations not escalate them

When i worked in a psychiatric hospital i saw plenty of examples of different ways to manage siutaions and i saw that some people were good at defusing things whilst others were just inflamatory

Police should be professional and respectful at all times and carry in their mind the thought that their responsibility is to the safety of the public. However i believe a change is occuring whereby the police are being chosen at recruitment stage for their aggressive qualities and are being trained to dominate the public which is going to have different effects. it might cow some people while aggrevating others.



capturing people is a risky business, but i think a reasonable thing to do would be to shout a warning to anyone trying to break into your property

This might discourage some or start a dialogue with others

if they answer back ''hello, i'm starving and my family are here too and they need food'' you then have the problem of finding out if thats true or a ruse to get you to drop your defences

But verbal warnings are i think the minimum that should go on



Well you sure made it sound like it was!

The michael brown shooting was not self defence

The cop had options to leave the guy alone and call in back up; by some accounts he went in aggressively and escalated the situation

Do you call yourself a "realist" because you don't like the term "prepper" or "survivalist"? Or do you not want to tell us that you prep in fear that [MENTION=731]the[/MENTION] will come and rob you blind?

I am also a realist. I plan and prepare for the unexpected, so I guess I could be called a prepper/survivalist. I don't stockpile food or anything like that. But I do have skills and items that will help me survive. I started by asking myself, "what would I do if I didn't have all of this? Food, water, clothing, stores, money, everything...what would I need to survive?" That's where the list started and the preparation began.

I don't think anything will happen but I am always prepared for the possibility. I think we take too much for granted and depend too much on outside sources to get us what we need. We have forgotten how to do for ourselves. Yes, I buy my food, clothing, etc. at the stores and I love this luxury, but if it all went away tomorrow, I wouldn't panic. I'm prepared.

And yes, preppers will be prepped for defense. I am prepped for defense. I would shoot a person trying to break into my home to steal without any questions, regardless of their reason. Knock on the fucking door and ask for what you need!
I was just offering a new perspective (not necessarily mine) and I wanted your thoughts.

As for the brown case (even though this does not belong in this thread, I will address), I do agree that the police force needs to work on their communication skills in the communities that they are protecting. They need more cops on foot, building relationships with the people they work for. A good rapport can go a long way in lowering the crime rate and giving the people a reason to trust and respect police. Stellar communication skills are key. It can't fix every situation, but it is a start in the right direction.

We will never know what really happened that day, and it's unfortunate that Brown was killed but all anyone can hope for is that something positive comes from it. It usually takes a tragedy to ignite change.