What if?

[ErikAlberto]

Does it really matter if the purpose is objective or we make our own meaning? Doesn't it accomplish the same thing? In fact, let's assume far worse. Let's assume someone does good for purely selfish reasons. Let's say Joe gives a $5 to a homeless guy to buy lunch just to impress his religious friends. Does that really matter to the homeless guy?

There it is. I love where you took that.

View attachment 102840

Years ago I went into a liquor store on a Friday night and before I made it through the door, a man who looked like he had no home asked me to get him some alcohol. I thought about it for 2 seconds and then said “sure man”. When I came out with a 40 oz. beer, I told him that it was his honesty that got me—after all, we both had a similar agenda for our Friday night, no?

 

[Asa]

Years ago I went into a liquor store on a Friday night and before I made it through the door, a man who looked like he had no home asked me to get him some alcohol. I thought about it for 2 seconds and then said “sure man”. When I came out with a 40 oz. beer, I told him that it was his honesty that got me—after all, we both had a similar agenda for our Friday night, no?

This honesty works like a charm. I've seen it countless times.
Free food isn't necessarily hard to find, but free beer is hard to find. And a lot of these types of spangers aren't unhoused, just under-employed.
You can also give urban nomads things other than money. You can buy them food, give them a new toothbrush and toothpaste, offer pet food for the dog they have in tow, or make care packages with toiletries and/or snacks. I also used to drop off my beauty samples at a woman's shelter -- shampoo, skincare, and make-up samples are a fun treat and destressing.

 

[SlowUpTake]

"good" , "honest", "truth" are all among the potent, important concepts and guiding moral principles for living both individually and in the larger world. But i would argue that assuming they are divine or of divine origin is just that, an assumption that cannot be proved. When I find myself equating them to the divine i wonder if in fact I am not adding to the fabric of the veil that is the separation between human existence and whatever may actually be reality.

 

[meowzician]

View attachment 102840

Priceless!

 

[meowzician]

Years ago I went into a liquor store on a Friday night and before I made it through the door, a man who looked like he had no home asked me to get him some alcohol. I thought about it for 2 seconds and then said “sure man”. When I came out with a 40 oz. beer, I told him that it was his honesty that got me—after all, we both had a similar agenda for our Friday night, no?

I honestly think that if I saw the "Punk for Drunk" guy, and had cash on me, that I would have given.

I had a really interesting discussion with my Rabbi once. It is a very common tradition to give tzedakah (can be translated charity or social justice) just before Shabbat. We were talking about how some people prefer to give food rather than money, so that the cash doesn't get wasted on drugs or alcohol. Then he said something curious that I continue to wonder about to this very day. He said, if someone wealthier can have the freedom to choose what to spend their money on, if a wealthy person has the freedom to go out and get drunk, why is it okay to demand that a poor person give up that freedom? If we demand that they spend our charity on food rather than drink, are we not demeaning their dignity as a human being? I don't have an answer.

 

[meowzician]

This honesty works like a charm. I've seen it countless times.
Free food isn't necessarily hard to find, but free beer is hard to find. And a lot of these types of spangers aren't unhoused, just under-employed.
You can also give urban nomads things other than money. You can buy them food, give them a new toothbrush and toothpaste, offer pet food for the dog they have in tow, or make care packages with toiletries and/or snacks. I also used to drop off my beauty samples at a woman's shelter -- shampoo, skincare, and make-up samples are a fun treat and destressing.

You are right.. It's actually not hard to find food--so many people are willing to give.

Do you know what DOES break a person financially? Housing. For some reason, charity and generosity dry up when it comes to housing. Part of the problem is that people think, "I'm willing to help someone through a temporary crisis, but I can't be supporting a permanent hole in someone's budget." I've known more than one person who ended up sleeping in their car despite working full time. They all tried and tried to find help. And there is none. None from society and tax money (HUD and Section 8 are almost always unavailable). None from churches. None from charities.

 

[TomasM]

Years ago I went into a liquor store on a Friday night and before I made it through the door, a man who looked like he had no home asked me to get him some alcohol. I thought about it for 2 seconds and then said “sure man”. When I came out with a 40 oz. beer, I told him that it was his honesty that got me—after all, we both had a similar agenda for our Friday night, no?

In that past I would visit this convenient store and there was almost always a homeless person outside sitting on the sidewalk. One lady was resting up against the building and it was sweltering hot outside. She looked up at me and asked if I would get her something to eat. I looked up in the air pondering and then asked her if she liked chicken or catfish (these were hot items I knew they had inside). She said anything is fine and I said, "you must have a preference or something you like best," because I suspected she never got the option. She told me and then I asked her what she liked to drink and she told me some kind of soda. I went in, gather up the things I needed and then returned to her with the things she requested. She said thank you and then I noticed she was missing half an arm (I think she was hiding it before). My heart sank but instead of showing pity, I looked her in the eyes, smiled, and said, "your welcome."

If we demand that they spend our charity on food rather than drink, are we not demeaning their dignity as a human being? I don't have an answer.

At the same place as the story above, a man approached me for money so he could get food one day. I was on my way out of the store and didn't want to go back inside so I asked him what he was going to get--as and INFJ I can read people's response quickly. He thought a second and gave me an answer that appeared on the edge between honest and less than forthright. I reached into my pocked and gave him all the cash I had on me--about 5 or 10 dollars. I looked him in the eyes and said, you better buy food you need to take care of yourself. His eyes got big and he said, "yes, I will." He immediately went into the store and I left without a second thought.

I don't think it is demeaning when a person is choosing not to support addiction or lies. Like Erik, I can be supportive of the truth. I can even be supportive of a lie if I know it is a need in a given moment. What I don't want to do is damage a person more and this is where it requires some discussion and insight. If I create a connection with the person in that moment then I always feel I have passed an unspoken message to them. The message is usually what they choose it to be in their own mind--like interpreting the meaning of art. If I do it with kindness and respect it is only then that the message will be received.

 

[Akar]

You are right.. It's actually not hard to find food--so many people are willing to give.

Do you know what DOES break a person financially? Housing. For some reason, charity and generosity dry up when it comes to housing. Part of the problem is that people think, "I'm willing to help someone through a temporary crisis, but I can't be supporting a permanent hole in someone's budget." I've known more than one person who ended up sleeping in their car despite working full time. They all tried and tried to find help. And there is none. None from society and tax money (HUD and Section 8 are almost always unavailable). None from churches. None from charities.

Metaphysics and the Pedagogy of Herbart.

For Herbart, otherness or strangeness is an essential and unquestionable characteristic of reality, which, according to him, is a complex of 'reals'.
(- Here it should be connected back to German idealism; otherwise, Herbart's metaphysics is incomprehensible. Idealism conceived spirit as self-creation, tended to nullify the importance of elements external to consciousness, or saw them only as dialectically opposed terms, and every contradiction was overcome in the unity of Self-Consciousness.)

The reals were necessarily multiple, and in their multiplicity could only be found the solution to the contradictions that, according to Herbart, characterize our experience.

According to Herbart, metaphysical knowledge is possible because it finds a correspondence in the careful study of experience, both internal (psychology) and external (philosophy of nature).

Being self-sufficient and autonomous realities, accidental relationships are established: in fact, they react with an act of self-preservation to any more demanding relationship or to any collision with other realities.

As the founder of scientific pedagogy, Herbart gave us the concept of the 'Apperceptive Mass'—the idea that a person can only understand new information if they already have an existing framework of past experiences to attach it to.

Herbart modeled the mind mathematically. He stated that when two incompatible ideas conflict, the stronger idea pushes the weaker one below the threshold of consciousness.

In short, for me, Herbart would argue that we aren’t ignoring a situation because it’s bad; our brain is literally filtering it out as an act of psychological self-defense because it doesn’t fit into our personal social context.


-Giammarco

 

[Asa]

You are right.. It's actually not hard to find food--so many people are willing to give.

Do you know what DOES break a person financially? Housing. For some reason, charity and generosity dry up when it comes to housing. Part of the problem is that people think, "I'm willing to help someone through a temporary crisis, but I can't be supporting a permanent hole in someone's budget." I've known more than one person who ended up sleeping in their car despite working full time. They all tried and tried to find help. And there is none. None from society and tax money (HUD and Section 8 are almost always unavailable). None from churches. None from charities.

Housing is a huge issue.
Slight tangent about that: Something that prickles me is how many people will give free advice to leave an abusive relationship, leave a toxic situation, or quit a toxic job, but also won't open their doors for others. Leaving a bad situation is a privilege. If you're not willing to help, don't give empty advice. The more empathetic move is to help the person survive something they can't change (yet.)
People who won't let a friend stay in the guest bedroom or on the sofa for a few weeks or months are the same people who say, after someone commits suicide, "I wish they'd reached out." And then what? You'd have ghosted them?

I had a really interesting discussion with my Rabbi once. It is a very common tradition to give tzedakah (can be translated charity or social justice) just before Shabbat. We were talking about how some people prefer to give food rather than money, so that the cash doesn't get wasted on drugs or alcohol. Then he said something curious that I continue to wonder about to this very day. He said, if someone wealthier can have the freedom to choose what to spend their money on, if a wealthy person has the freedom to go out and get drunk, why is it okay to demand that a poor person give up that freedom? If we demand that they spend our charity on food rather than drink, are we not demeaning their dignity as a human being? I don't have an answer.

I agree with your Rabbi. People deserve to have choices and autonomy. When we help by giving money, we need to be willing to let them make that choice. It may be a poor choice. Imagine never having a choice, though? It can wear down a soul. In the big picture, the poor choices are the minority, though.