What is Beauty?

QuicksilverElf said:
Since you are in Ireland, I will start off with the Irish poet John O'Donohue. He was influenced by Heidegger. “What you encounter, recognize or discover depends to a large degree on the quality of your approach. Many of the ancient cultures practiced careful rituals of approach. An encounter of depth and spirit was preceded by careful preparation.
When we approach with reverence, great things decide to approach us. Our real life comes to the surface and its light awakens the concealed beauty in things. When we walk on the earth with reverence, beauty will decide to trust us. The rushed heart and arrogant mind lack the gentleness and patience to enter that embrace.”
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Thank you very much for recommending John O'Donohue. I will definitely check him out at some point this week :)

Any poet influenced by Heidegger has my immediate interest piqued!
 
Ren said:
Here is a video today I made on the topic, for those interested :)

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As a painter or as a conduit to receive images, I ask myself the question, is my current creation of art transforming myself? I also apply that to my thinking. What is the use of thinking and creating if it does not transform in some way? Or with others what do I want them to experience through my art? Because I prefer art to engage other human beings. So that's being aware of cultures, symbolism, psychology, philosophy and myths. Though, we would have to describe what 'transformation' means as well as describe how interpretation is used through the subjects above (and as you mentioned , what is 'beauty'?).... Side note, I have come to an awareness of even if I have the most well thought out system, with accurate logic and elegant in it's presentation, why does that somehow not satisfy me? Where is the living-ness, the aliveness? What is this?...pause...What is this that feels some depth? If we stare at the finger (language) that points at the moon we might mistake the finger as the moon.
And
"Look at the cherry blossoms!
Their color and scent fall with them,
Are gone forever,
Yet mindless
The spring comes again." ~Ikkyu
And
Towards the ugly, or not pretty....Martel, J.F.. Reclaiming Art in the Age of Artifice (Manifesto)
"The work of art is apolitical and free of moralism. “The artist,” Wilde said, “is free to express everything.” It is precisely the absence of political and moral interest that makes art an agent of liberation wherever it appears. Art opposes tyranny by freeing beauty from the clutches of the powers of this world. True beauty is not pretty. It is a tear in the façade of the everyday, a sudden revelation of the forces seething beneath the surface of things. Only the revelation of beauty can save our world. The artist is always and for all time a seer, and artistic creation is always and for all time an act of prophecy. The artist does not choose the prophecy. Rather, the prophetic shines through her work. It comes from elsewhere."
Though, I don't entirely agree with this. As a painter, I tend to think I'm a facilitator of myth images, or inviting new ways to 'see' or experience the world towards others- to ignite the fire of imagination within others.
And
a Japanese aesthetic with Buddhism, (maybe, beyond concepts of beauty and ugliness?)...."True beauty exists in the realm where there is no distinction between the beautiful and the ugly, a realm that is described as, "prior to ugly and ugliness" as a state where "beauty and ugliness are as yet unseparated". There can be no true beauty, then, outside that realm where beauty and ugliness have not yet begun to conflict with each other." ~ Soetsu Yanagi, The Unknown Craftsman
 
Ren said:
Thank you very much for recommending John O'Donohue. I will definitely check him out at some point this week :)

Any poet influenced by Heidegger has my immediate interest piqued!
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When I was studying Heidegger as a hobby, ha ha, only undergrad understanding, maybe, I owe my brief understanding from Hubert Dreyfus, U of Berkeley California. I also liked his Nietzsche series.
 
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QuicksilverElf said:
When I was studying Heidegger as a hobby, ha ha, only undergrad understanding, maybe, I owe my brief understanding from Hubert Dreyfus, U of Berkeley California. I also liked his Nietzsche series.
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Haha I love how you mentioned Dreyfus's university affiliation ;) He has a great reputation as a Heidegger scholar, so I think your understanding must be solid!
 
Pin said:
I find great lives beautiful.

A person who has a good marriage, profession, and family is a beautiful segment of our society.
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By "great lives" do you mean the lives exemplifying a good marriage, profession, etc., or did you mean great lives as well as lives exemplifying the latter?

Basically do you include the life of Napoleon in your criterion. You have to, Pin — you have to.
 
Ren said:
Haha I love how you mentioned Dreyfus's university affiliation ;) He has a great reputation as a Heidegger scholar, so I think your understanding must be solid!
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Thanks for the benefit of the doubt, but I get only a sliver of Heidegger. Brain hurts at times. I am better with art, myth, psychology and mysticism. I get more the ancient Greeks and Buddhists, then some Wittgenstein, Nietzsche and Delueze.
 
Another view...Alan Moore's take on Art and Transformation

"...I believe that magic is art and that art, whether it be writing, music, sculpture, or any other form is literally magic. Art is, like magic, the science of manipulating symbols, words, or images, to achieve changes in consciousness. The very language about magic seems to be talking as much about writing or art as it is about supernatural events. "
"...I believe that all culture must have arisen from cult. Originally, all of the faucets of our culture, whether they be in the arts or sciences were the province of the Shaman. The fact that in present times, this magical power has degenerated to the level of cheap entertainment and manipulation, is, I think a tragedy. At the moment the people who are using Shamanism and magic to shape our culture are advertisers. Rather than try to wake people up, their Shamanism is used as an opiate to tranquilize people, to make people more manipulable. Their magic box of television, and by their magic words, their jingles can cause everyone in the country to be thinking the same words and have the same banal thoughts all at exactly the same moment..."
"...In latter times I think that artists and writers have allowed themselves to be sold down the river. They have accepted the prevailing belief that art and writing are merely forms of entertainment. They’re not seen as transformative forces that can change a human being; that can change a society. They are seen as simple entertainment; things with which we can fill 20 minutes, half an hour, while we’re waiting to die. It’s not the job of the artist to give the audience what the audience wants. If the audience knew what they needed, then they wouldn’t be the audience. They would be the artists. It is the job of artists to give the audience what they need.”
 
in the mind of the beholder. dont your mind shape your reality? defaq you like, dat shit hot.
 
This is a very interesting thread!

I have a somewhat related question. I often find I am strongly moved by different places. Or I guess by the atmosphere of a city. Currently I am in Budapest and I cannot explain why I enjoy it so much to just drive around in the night and going to different restaurants and coffee places or bars.

Speaking in terms of typology, we could say it's my Si, which has a very personal experience with the sensory world. But it is also very confusing and not at all well articulated. My girlfriend for example has a much more direct experience with the sensory world. Like, she likes food because it tastes good. She likes the room, because I don't know, she likes the color combinations. It's very straight forward with her.

With me it's always something vague and personal. On the one hand I like it but on the other it makes me feel very feminine, which I dislike. I think NeSi axis in inherently feminine.

I don't know where am I going with this, but perhaps some of you have similar experience?
 
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This made me think about type and masculinity and femininity.

I think the most masculine are:
1. ESTP
2. ENTJ
3. ESTJ
4. INTJ
5. ISTP
6. ENTP

The most feminine is quite easy, I think:
1. INFP
2. ISFP
 
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I miss the insight of this thread. A topic so pure and relevant....a topic with meaning to us all.
 
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