What is Beauty?

People have an intuitive understanding of what the word beauty refers to, but tend to disagree wildly on how to define it.

Looking to define beauty is problematical. Philosophers have largely given up on defining evil since Auschwitz. And beauty is similar: you know it when you see it but you never know what it is.

Maybe it's a western problem? Trying to define things we have no business defining. Art, beauty, evil, God. Trying to know with the mind instead of with the heart. The Sufis say that to taste is to know.
 
This is a strange philosophical discussion but strange is what makes philosophy so beautiful. :smirkcat:

I reserve the right to correct my next statements after I have completely read the thread.

The first thoughts that came to mind was what we see is beautiful and that corresponds to the phrase, "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder," but then I recognized that some people can't see and they still understand the concept of beauty. Lucifer was consider the most beautiful but that wasn't the case for his actions which means something can be beautiful and ugly simultaneously.

I've found myself twisting down the rabbit hole of my mind and recognize this philosophical discussion may not really be about beauty but instead about each persons perception or attraction to things of the world. That a color may be perceived one way by one person and completely different by another. The same can be said for all of the senses.

This led me to change my way of thinking and approach to something I've been pondering more recently. Now this may be a bit controversial but I'll say it regardless. I believe that the difference in people can be traced back to a vibrational frequency. The human species has a fairly broad range when it comes to frequency but the best way to identify it is in the output of the individual. For example, some people think and talk fast, sing in a high pitch, have a faster metabolism, and can hear and taste some things outside the range of others. Gender now starts to come to mind. Woman tend to have higher voices, and their brains can usually multitask better so this leads me to believe these are higher frequencies. Men have lower voices, think about one thing at a time, and that correlates with lower frequencies. Women also tend to appreciate brighter colors while men generally lean toward the darker which is a lower frequency on the color spectrum. I'm not suggesting that all men or women are the same but that the frequency for each is spread along a spectrum where one is shifted to a higher range than the other. That both of these spectrum's overlap and that there are outliers that could venture far into distribution of the opposite sex.

Now, lets look at range. Some people may experience a much broader range of sensory experience. Some people can taste, hear, smell, see and feel things across a wider spectrum which allows their experience of life to be more full than other people - at least from a sensory standpoint. Savants and the autistic come to mind when I think of both range and intensity.

The same can be said for other animals. Whales are large, move slow, and speak at a very low frequency in the sound spectrum compared to people so their experience is likely much different than that of a human. On the other end of the spectrum we have a humming bird that is moving fast, thinking fast, and usually has brighter colors.

Getting to the point! Perhaps each individuals idea of beauty is correlated with their frequency, range, and amplitude by which they operate or function. There's no doubt that people and animals tend to flock toward those with similar characteristics which implies that they identify beauty with a specific frequency.

Now comes the fly in the ointment. If frequency is in fact correlated with the sensory and in large part that defines beauty, then how do we account for intuition (the flip side of Jung's dichotomy) and the beauty that lies within us. Well, my first thought is that compatibility increases the range and intensity which in turn creates mystery and value to those that don't possess those qualities. I have found that the intuitive generally lacks in sensory function yet I still recognize that some people can be both highly sensory and intuitive simultaneously. In this case a person that is more sensory and less intuitive might see beauty in the compatibility of those the choose to partner (friend, partner, etc.). Adding to that thought, I think / fell that intuition requires a higher level of mental work or energy than sensory functions and though I struggle to nail down a frequency associated with intuition I suspect that it is there in some capacity in a similar manner to touch. As a high level intuitive I have recognized that my sense of touch outpaces all of my other senses in terms of how I feel.

Okay, I'm going to leave it at that for now and will try to loop back to this when I get an opportunity to read the entire thread.

Have a wonderful day and take in as much beauty as you can before reaching sensory overload. ❤️
 
Hot take: beauty is that moment of contemplation where if I died at that moment, I would have died having lived a full life.

Cheers,
Ian
 
Hot take: beauty is that moment of contemplation where if I died at that moment, I would have died having lived a full life.

Cheers,
Ian
I had to ponder this for a bit and I couldn't fully comprehend what you meant in your hot take. So I looked up the word contemplation, just to make sure I wasn't missing something. I found a couple definitions and I will post these now:

1. concentration on spiritual things as a form of private devotion
2. a state of mystical awareness of God's being
3. an act of considering with attention : study
4. the act of regarding steadily.

I didn't realize there was a definition to this word that was strictly devoted to the spiritual.

I'm interested in hearing more about this hot take. Would you consider an example that might give better insight? Obviously, I don't expect you to produce something worth the end of life but maybe something in the realm of my limited understanding?
 
#3 above can lead to a neurological state of forgetting, a petit mort of its own kind, so the death itself has already occurred, so to speak.

To surrender to beauty...what else is needed?

Nothing could be more, fulfilling, or otherwise.

As good a time to shuffle off as could be.

Cheers,
Ian
 
#3 above can lead to a neurological state of forgetting, a petit mort of its own kind, so the death itself has already occurred, so to speak.
Okay, I wasn't aware that "an act of considering with attention : study" could lead to, "a neurological state of forgetting," Where or how did you find this understanding or conclusion? This sounds paradoxical, which is something I entertain far more than I should, yet now I'm wondering if my frequent contemplation is in fact spinning me into death.

I suspect that petit mort is french so I googled it and this returned:

"La petite mort is an expression that refers to a brief loss or weakening of consciousness, and in modern usage refers specifically to a post-orgasm"

My first thought was a drug induced state that is more euphoric but then I saw the sexual side so I combined the two and that became a euphoric, drug induced state coupled with orgasm and followed by the acceptance of death. Now, I don't know if that's worth the price of death but it certainly sounds like a good way to depart this world.
To surrender to beauty...what else is needed?

Nothing could be more, fulfilling, or otherwise.

As good a time to shuffle off as could be.

Cheers,
Ian
With respect to surrendering to beauty:

I was hoping to know the nature of this beauty, something a bit more directed so I might understand. Are you speaking of god, heaven, or some other spiritual beauty or perhaps something that is more material and of the natural world?

When I think / feel about dying for beauty my mind drifts toward other words like blissful awe or eloquently interconnected (the opposite of Dante's betrayal). These are ideas that could be considered beautiful yet I haven't completed this thread so I may still be lagging behind.
 
@TomasM @aeon I don't know if I can usefully add to your discussion, but here goes ....

My reading of aeon's thoughts is that the most profound beauty, when we experience it, stops us in our tracks - we lose any sense of self and for an instant we become immersed in it, and in that instant we are timeless. At its most profound, it changes us and the shape of our lives beyond, and if we were to die then, we would feel that this was all the fulfilment we would ever need in this life. But at least for me this is not the everyday beauty I experience - most beauty for me is more mundane. Just as well - humans aren't built to sustain the most intense experience of beauty for long.

Contemplation is a most profound word with many ramifications of meaning. At its deepest it takes us into the same space as Zen meditation and an altered insight into the world, our own selves and their significance. The deepest Christian prayer is called contemplative prayer and in this we experience God directly and become one with him - it has a profoundly spiritual dimension and expresses one of the peak experiences that anyone can have. But it also describes other very profound experiences with a less focused spiritual context - for instance there is the world of difference between me looking at one of my favourite Turner paintings and contemplating it - in contemplation I become immersed in its beauty. It's even more so in the experience of being immersed and carried away in our deepest and most favourite music.

If I could wish anything for everyone beyond the basics of health, safety, shelter and sustenance, it would be that they could sometimes become aware of the sheer magical beauty in our world and be transported out of themselves by it.
 
@TomasM @aeon I don't know if I can usefully add to your discussion, but here goes ....

My reading of aeon's thoughts is that the most profound beauty, when we experience it, stops us in our tracks - we lose any sense of self and for an instant we become immersed in it, and in that instant we are timeless. At its most profound, it changes us and the shape of our lives beyond, and if we were to die then, we would feel that this was all the fulfilment we would ever need in this life. But at least for me this is not the everyday beauty I experience - most beauty for me is more mundane. Just as well - humans aren't built to sustain the most intense experience of beauty for long.

Contemplation is a most profound word with many ramifications of meaning. At its deepest it takes us into the same space as Zen meditation and an altered insight into the world, our own selves and their significance. The deepest Christian prayer is called contemplative prayer and in this we experience God directly and become one with him - it has a profoundly spiritual dimension and expresses one of the peak experiences that anyone can have. But it also describes other very profound experiences with a less focused spiritual context - for instance there is the world of difference between me looking at one of my favourite Turner paintings and contemplating it - in contemplation I become immersed in its beauty. It's even more so in the experience of being immersed and carried away in our deepest and most favourite music.

If I could wish anything for everyone beyond the basics of health, safety, shelter and sustenance, it would be that they could sometimes become aware of the sheer magical beauty in our world and be transported out of themselves by it.
That's an interesting description and takeaway from her writings. I didn't fully understand what was being said and that's why I had to ask. For the most part I think of beauty as a feeling whereas contemplation (as I have traditionally understood it) is more aligned with my thinking. Of course I'm trying to fill in the blanks with word definitions and philosophical understandings.

When thoughts and feeling begin to merge together and process simultaneously it fascinates me. In this thread, we have thoughts, feelings, and a sensory component all coming together into a philosophical discussion which becomes highly subjective and individualized. This type of dialogue leads to questions, lots of questions.

I was hoping to hear her perspective but in retrospect I wonder if I may have stated things in a way that was intrusive. My intent was strictly academic.
 
That's an interesting description and takeaway from her writings.
No harm, no foul, but please know I am male. ☺️

Also, the post from @John K was so spot-on, I felt relieved of the need to reply further.

Cheers,
Ian
 
No harm, no foul, but please know I am male. ☺️

Also, the post from @John K was so spot-on, I felt relieved of the need to reply further.

Cheers,
Ian
Appologies, I think the unicorn and rainbow (in your profile pic), combined with my daughter also being ENFP led me to believe you were female. It was an honest mistake. Taking a mental note for future reference.
 
Appologies, I think the unicorn and rainbow (in your profile pic), combined with my daughter also being ENFP led me to believe you were female. It was an honest mistake. Taking a mental note for future reference.
No apology needed, but accepted nonetheless.

Cheers,
Ian
 
@TomasM I think your questions and points are quite in keeping with what @Ren was looking for when he opened this thread. Ren is an INFJ philosopher and was interested in all aspects of what aesthetics is all about, whether as experienced or whether as an intellectual exploration. I found when I replied to it some time back that it was from a curious combination of head and heart, in that it is really difficult to combine them in response - I tend to come from either / or rather than integrate them.

I think your understanding of contemplation as a thinking process is quite in keeping with the term - it's one of those words that has quite different meanings in different contexts. I do tend to give it emotional overtones in my own rational contemplation - for example of the great aesthetic beauty of Euler's equation in maths which is grounded in the succinctness of a great mathematical statement in complex analysis, but which is definitely rooted in a rational understanding of the underlying theory. But contemplation in Christian prayer is something else again and is experienced rather than undertaken. I guess the word is rather overworked ......
 
Overworked, overcooked and oversold
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The deepest Christian prayer is called contemplative prayer and in this we experience God directly and become one with him - it has a profoundly spiritual dimension and expresses one of the peak experiences that anyone can have.

This is well-stated, John K. I might add something you may already know, but experiencing God and becoming one with God is far more involved than a prayer. Should we say Amen, it does not stop. The spiritual dimensions
can continue to expand. The peak experience can become a way of life. Explaining it in words without something for people to look at can be difficult. Living as one with God can take many years to develop a true understanding of what we have become: what our purpose(s) for God might be. We start to wonder these things, when all we need do is ask. One day we may ask, "What have I become?" Yet, it is no longer I, but Christ which liveth within me.
Oh, to read and understand is a pinnacle in life we have reached. We have a constant connection with God. Maybe this theme will be my next writing. Thanks.
 
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I might add something you may already know, but experiencing God and becoming one with God is far more involved than a prayer. Should we say Amen, it does not stop. The spiritual dimensions
can continue to expand. The peak experience can become a way of life.
Yes. I'd add that it isn't something that you do, but something that happens to you. It's hard to give a meaningful analogy, but it can be like a really long and hard trek to a beauty spot that you can only really experience when you are right on top of it. The journey was necessary, but the experience is not a product of the journey which cannot buy you the immersion in the place by itself.
 
I would like to use steps as an analogy. One step is like peace, while the next may be a choice. The next step may be something you must stand up to and step on by.

Glass is strong, but must be brought closer to the element of heat and fire to remove most of the impurities. An edged eyeglass glass lense was measured, weighed, type of glass figured in, then placed into an oven. The calculations are for telling us how long in the oven. The timer allows the lense to be removed from the fire and blasted by two airstreams til it cools. Makes a maltese cross when looking at the lense with a light underneath one polarized lense and one above it. The lense is considered heat-treated or temprossed. Final test is the drop ball test, dropping a large ball bearing on the lense forward side, sitting centered on rubber. The two polarized lenses must be placed at opposite axis( like 90 degrees one one and 180 degrees on the second. I think a mind must have the willingness and knowledge to accept this. Hence, it has something to do with what we do or have been doing moreso than only being struck by lightning.

There is a book that much better explains.
 
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