Which Feeler type is the least feel-y

[ClevelandINTP]

Guess I'd have to take on the risk of the occasional INFJ 4-ness to get exposure to more intellectualism

Back to golden pair

 

[ClevelandINTP]

For Ss and Gs--Jung typing himself

 

[Ren]

To further back it up with Enneagram, ESFPs are like the stereotype of type 4.

I would say they are more often Type 3 or 7. A lot of ESFPs are driven by a need to be liked. This is not very indicative of a Type 4, or at least not as much as a Type 3.

Guess I'd have to take on the risk of the occasional INFJ 4-ness to get exposure to more intellectualism

Back to golden pair

How about an INFJ Type 5? Could this be your happy middle ground?

Strong on Ti, usually slightly subdued (though not unheathy) Fe.

Note that very interestingly, I don't think ISFJ Type 5 are nearly as common as INFJ Type 5. I imagine that most ISFJs would be Type 1.

 

[Ren]

For Ss and Gs--Jung typing himself

INTP then.

Jung uses a great deal of Ti.

 

[Ren]

Does 4-ness = messy? Is 5-ness better than 4-ness?

No type is 'better' than any other type and I don't think Type 4 is 'messy' necessarily. But I suppose Type 4 will have a tendency to relate to feeling more openly.

Interestingly enough, it is usually the Type 2 (more than Type 4) that can overwhelm me with expressions of feeling sometimes, in real life that is. Any thoughts on Type 2, @ClevelandINTP ?

 

[ClevelandINTP]

I would say they are more often Type 3 or 7. A lot of ESFPs are driven by a need to be liked. This is not very indicative of a Type 4, or at least not as much as a Type 3.



How about an INFJ Type 5? Could this be your happy middle ground?

Strong on Ti, usually slightly subdued (though not unheathy) Fe.

Note that very interestingly, I don't think ISFJ Type 5 are nearly as common as INFJ Type 5. I imagine that most ISFJs would be Type 1.

ISFJs are totally enneagram 1 and 2s--you're right

 

[ClevelandINTP]

I would say they are more often Type 3 or 7. A lot of ESFPs are driven by a need to be liked. This is not very indicative of a Type 4, or at least not as much as a Type 3.



How about an INFJ Type 5? Could this be your happy middle ground?

Strong on Ti, usually slightly subdued (though not unheathy) Fe.

Note that very interestingly, I don't think ISFJ Type 5 are nearly as common as INFJ Type 5. I imagine that most ISFJs would be Type 1.

Type 4 or Type 7s fit the bill of needing to be like to some extent. I can totally see ESFPs as type 7s

I was leaning on the Type 4 type as it's more dramatic and self-absorbed

 

[ClevelandINTP]

No type is 'better' than any other type and I don't think Type 4 is 'messy' necessarily. But I suppose Type 4 will have a tendency to relate to feeling more openly.

Interestingly enough, it is usually the Type 2 (more than Type 4) that can overwhelm me with expressions of feeling sometimes, in real life that is. Any thoughts on Type 2, @ClevelandINTP ?

I really don't have as much of a problem with type 2 behavior as long as it's not controlling. I want to be loved, so yeah, that's fine

 

[ClevelandINTP]

No type is 'better' than any other type and I don't think Type 4 is 'messy' necessarily. But I suppose Type 4 will have a tendency to relate to feeling more openly.

Interestingly enough, it is usually the Type 2 (more than Type 4) that can overwhelm me with expressions of feeling sometimes, in real life that is. Any thoughts on Type 2, @ClevelandINTP ?

Most of the messiness I've seen in relationships has been from 4-ness

4-ness can be compounded into further messiness with impulsivity of 7-ness

Personal experience and subjective preference obviously

 

[ClevelandINTP]

Lol. I'm confused. Are feelings such "icky" things?

I am pro-feelings. I am admittedly not very good with them nor take much interest in showing them. I do need them and like the way they make me feel, though. Much more of a personal preference for Fe than Fi

Too many feelings take me away from more core self, Ti-Ne, and not that I don't need development outside of that, it's just that keeping that part of me sharp is important to me

You wouldn't believe the exhaustion feelings put on to an INTP

 

[ClevelandINTP]

I am pro-feelings. I am admittedly not very good with them nor take much interest in showing them. I do need them and like the way they make me feel, though. Much more of a personal preference for Fe than Fi

Too many feelings take me away from more core self, Ti-Ne, and not that I don't need development outside of that, it's just that keeping that part of me sharp is important to me

You wouldn't believe the exhaustion feelings put on to an INTP

To further explain that exhaustion, we experience feelings much differently. I sometimes feel sterile to them. Sterile in the sense that I don’t feel compelled to react to them in the moment. So imagine if you go through life only having to manage very little emotions, and then when others with much more emotions dump them in your direction. We’re not emotionally needy and that can be a bit much

My ex used to think I was cold or didn’t have emotions. To which my response was always that I manage them. I’ll sit on them for a few days, rationalize them and literally put them in the act or do not act bin

I’ve tried a relationship before going all in on my emotions and having them out before internal deliberation—it goes much better managing them on your own as much as you can within reason

 

[John K]

How about an INFJ Type 5? Could this be your happy middle ground?

I think that’s where I’d got to
Which Feeler type is the least feel-y
But with the caveat that they are very hard to find, being a minority subset of an already rare type. My impression around the forum is that E5 INFJs are pretty unchaotic with their feeling judgements - though I can’t speak for myself objectively of course, only for others like yourself Ren.

 

[Pin]

I don't understand ENFJs.

 

[Pin]

It can be tough sometimes dealing with them. They're like "power hungry" feelers. Their charisma is kind of interesting but there's nothing usually backing it up. ENFJs can make good managers or bosses given they are good at making sure people are well taken care of. But their thinking skills, imo, can be weird. To them everything is a feeling so if you point out discrepancies in their arguments they double down on saying shit like "you just feel that way" or "you want it x to be true". It drove me nuts sometimes. But boy can they put on a show of charisma and inspire, at times! Lol.

How would you compare and contrast ENFJs with ENTJs?

 

[Deleted member 16771]

There is a measure of truth to this. Ni uncoupled with effective Fe or Te decision making is mostly bullshit. I think Carl Jung himself once said "Ni is the most useless function"

Not entirely surprising if Jung was an INTP

So many ways to humor that it’s true, though. Suppose there is a 50-50 possible Ni future. One path is willed into existence or attempted to be willed. Whether or not the outcome of that execution is successful does not mean the other path was incorrect or inferior. It just didn’t happen is the only truth that can hold without any other information

Another analogy to this is the whole the victors write history. Anyone can contort how something that already happened, happened

'The most useless of men'

 

[ClevelandINTP]

'The most useless of men'

I lean more on that it's bullshit than useless. It certainly has utility, but I can count so many examples in my experience of bullshit Ni will come up with. I've seen and lived it. Just because one has a vision, does not rule out all other visions and nor does it condone actions taken needed to achieve the vision

Further, that video mentions 70% of visions are not acted on--I can tell you with 100% certainty that is not limited to Ni. I daydream about the future from the time I get up until the time I goto bed. I dwell on fantasies for several years and dive deep in this for days, weeks and years. If Ni folks experience that, that's cool. So do other types. A lot of types really

What that video does hit on that is quite accurate is the ordering functions of Te and Fe that push visions to a reality

So what ends up happening is a chicken or the egg type of scenario: does Ni produce better, detailed or efficient visions or does the compliment of Te and Fe produce better execution to create something that resembles or was inspired by a vision or both

Further, one can argue the more one does via Te or Fe and subsequently played with by Se or Ne, the more potential possibilities and visions are exposed. I can tell you with 100% certainty I am firing on more cylinders when I am doing or exploring which enables me to connect more dots, find truth and project

In any event, that still does not invalidate the following critique:

"So many ways to humor that it’s true, though. Suppose there is a 50-50 possible Ni future. One path is willed into existence or attempted to be willed. Whether or not the outcome of that execution is successful does not mean the other path was incorrect or inferior. It just didn’t happen is the only truth that can hold without any other information

Another analogy to this is the whole the victors write history. Anyone can contort how something that already happened, happened"

 

[ClevelandINTP]

Struggle with turning visions into reality and translating your internal world ideas to a possible tangible reality: learn to draw, the art of storytelling, visualization and loose planning

Basically learn the art of the pitch coupled with visualization (literal mental imagery using visuals representing 1000s of words)

Meme culture is a thing for a reason

I've developed several modules on visualization theory and practice and have taught courses on it--it's sort of my jam

 

[ClevelandINTP]

heard Sarah Palin is single again

 

[Impact Character]

Struggle with turning visions into reality and translating your internal world ideas to a possible tangible reality: learn to draw, the art of storytelling, visualization and loose planning

Basically learn the art of the pitch coupled with visualization (literal mental imagery using visuals representing 1000s of words)

Meme culture is a thing for a reason

I've developed several modules on visualization theory and practice and have taught courses on it--it's sort of my jam

Oh, so true. It can be like a fix once you find ways to relatively quickly make these things accessible to others and see those ideas getting their first shape (scribbling, mockups, oneliner, elevator-pitches, powerpoint presentations, flowcharts, vision boards or mood boards..anything loose).
The nature of the ideas and the impact* they are going to have (on group or society) can tell you what form they come with, it's rather fulfilling a specific function than having that unique artistic style on repeat (mastery and self-expression).

*(not fame, rather meaningful effect on the structure)

I wouldn't underestimate that there are many many people that lose the red thread or big picture when they work on creations, though. It can get relatively messy easily, or they forget about underlining vision 'rules' that keep the idea accurate, crisp and very thought-through.

Killing darlings is something tough to learn, but logic accuracy is your best friend there.

Yeah, great jam.

 

[wolly.green]

ESFP and ENFP. Not only do they have F second, their F is introverted. So you don't "see" it like you "see" it in INFJs.

Fi doms tend to be extremely feely because they are usually ALL IN on their feelings and really struggle with getting the others to accept them. An Fi doms struggle with others can be so intense that they frequently fall into depression.

Fe doms struggle with depression as well. But not because they want others to accept them. They struggle because they want to feel good enough.