Why America can't have nice things...

[IndigoSensor]

In early highschool I wanted to leave the united states and I claimed that I hated it. Really though, it was just me rebelling, lol. As I have grown older I have grown to like the USA, and I am happy to live here. While there are things that could be much better, and there are one or two countries I wouldn't mind moving to, I am glad to be where I am. The USA does have some really good things about it.

 

[BenW]

Well...we do have an empire which means american stupidity have worse consequences.

Every marginally wealthy country has an empire.

Britain is just as notorious (historically, perhaps more) for having their fingers in other people's business.

basically we are more important idiots

Not for too much longer, we wont be.

At least, in the official sense.

 

[Sithious]

In early highschool I wanted to leave the united states and I claimed that I hated it. Really though, it was just me rebelling, lol. As I have grown older I have grown to like the USA, and I am happy to live here. While there are things that could be much better, and there are one or two countries I wouldn't mind moving to, I am glad to be where I am. The USA does have some really good things about it.

America has amazing diversity, both it's nature and people.

Still the legal system, political system, health care and so on and so forth is horrible

 

[HaHa]

America has amazing diversity, both it's nature and people.

Still the legal system, political system, health care and so on and so forth is horrible

Kick ass military though.

 

[Shai Gar]

You're in the US Armed Forces?

 

[HaHa]

You're in the US Armed Forces?

Of course not. I just, along with every member of our industrious capitalist nation, simply support them in everything they do with about 20% of everything we produce. Whether we like it or not.

 

[Shai Gar]

Of course not. I just, along with every member of our industrious capitalist nation, simply support them in everything they do with about 20% of everything we produce. Whether we like it or not.

Imagine if 15% of that went into healthcare instead of Military.

 

[HaHa]

Imagine if 15% of that went into healthcare instead of Military.

You're preaching to the choir. I can take the other side if you want to go a few rounds though.

 

[Shai Gar]

Actually yeah. Let's start another thread for it though.

Most of the people on here dismiss or ignore that point I've raised. Continuously.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

Imagine if they got rid of social security and put it into healthcare.

Might be more efficient.

 

[HaHa]

Imagine if they got rid of social security and put it into healthcare.

Might be more efficient.

And cruel and unfair. The people currently receiving social security are actually the people who paid into it. I think, I might be making that up.

 

[BenW]

Imagine if they got rid of taxes, tariffs, quotas, subsidization... (all trade rules, really), and assumed the good faith of letting people handle their own money.

 

[HaHa]

Imagine if they got rid of taxes, tariffs, quotas, subsidization... (all trade rules, really), and assumed the good faith of letting people handle their own money.

You'll grow out of the libertarian thing. Sweet in pure theory, undoubtedly not the way to make the bring the best to the most people. It's just the most "fair". And anyone can tell you, "life isn't fair".

 

[BenW]

You'll grow out of the libertarian thing.

I think the world will grow into it.

Sweet in pure theory, undoubtedly not the way to make the bring the best to the most people.

Undoubtedly the way to bring the most freedom to the most people.

At some level or another, pretty much everyone is forced to admit that they believe in personal freedom, they're just inconsistent.

 

[HaHa]

I think the world will grow into it.

Undoubtedly the way to bring the most freedom to the most people.

At some level or another, pretty much everyone is forced to admit that they believe in personal freedom, they're just inconsistent.

Sure, but I'd rather have healthcare than the right to prostitute myself, although I believe I should have both. And if I have to give up the right to prostitute myself so that other members of society are willing to pay for healthcare, that's a compromise I'm comfortable with. Society is human, and it exists as a series of compromises. We all compromise some freedoms by entering into it. If you want full freedom, you'll probably have to find another species to associate with.

 

[BenW]

Sure, but I'd rather have healthcare than the right to prostitute myself, although I believe I should have both. And if I have to give up the right to prostitute myself so that other members of society are willing to pay for healthcare, that's a compromise I'm comfortable with. Society is human, and it exists as a series of compromises. We all compromise some freedoms by entering into it. If you want full freedom, you'll probably have to find another species to associate with.

Of course freedoms have to be compromised.
I just believe they should be done so voluntarily, by means of contract.

There's also the saying that when you hear "their oughta' be a law...", there probably shouldn't be... The loss of some freedom does paradoxically make people generally freer, such as the loss of freedom to kill/rape/steal/etc... Anything beyond that is an unnecessary loss of freedom.

Whatever freedoms you are willing to give up is certainly nobodies choice but your own.

This is pretty far offtopic, though.
If you want to keep up this line of conversation, I think we should start a new thread, about "liberty" and whatnot (maybe just use the existing rights thread).

 

[MindYourHead]

You'll grow out of the libertarian thing. Sweet in pure theory, undoubtedly not the way to make the bring the best to the most people. It's just the most "fair". And anyone can tell you, "life isn't fair".

A 20 year old telling an 18 year old he will grow out of something.
That's priceless.

I've come to the conclusion the best hope for this country is if people would wake up and steer this country in a direction that is closer to the ideals of the Libertarian party.
It's really closer to what the founding Fathers had in mind.

Both the major parties don't have our best interests at heart.
IMHO.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

The thing about getting rid of taxes and all that is, well, most people don't really handle themselves responsibly without impeding on others. The Founders of America actually tried to not have any taxes at the beginning...it failed horribly. Without taxes, the government has no money, and without money, it can't really do much of anything.

And not to sound negative, but most people suck at governing themselves.

And cruel and unfair. The people currently receiving social security are actually the people who paid into it. I think, I might be making that up.

Social security, when it was first established, had about an average of 8 people paying into the social security of one other person. In a few years from now, it'll be an average of closer to 1.8 people per person. In other words, it'll be almost like you're paying for another person's lifestyle. Personally, I'd rather just take care of my parents and cut the government out of it.
And when the baby boomer generation retires, we'll be screwed. More than likely, the system will fail anyways.

Yeah, they probably won't get the money back that they put in. But reality is, we can't do it -- it's not "fair," but fair, in this case, is unrealistic.

 

[Julia]

Imagine if they got rid of social security and put it into healthcare.

Might be more efficient.

30 cents on every U.S. dollar of health care expense goes to the business of insurance whose goal is to make a profit and not to keep the populace healthy. Right there is your money to cover those w/o access. Having medical decisions in the hands of those who stand to profit financially is the core of the broken system. The pharmaceutical companies make profit by people being sick and buying drugs. There is more money to be made from illness than wellness. PPOs make a profit off of supplying more procedures for people.

On the other hand, the doctors in HMOs have income based on capitation which means they get a flat fee for each person who pays into their plan. The less health care they provide each person, the more money they get to keep.

The U.S. spends twice what other developed nations spend on health care because it is big business here. The choices to over treat in some plans and under treat in others results from everything being based on profit and health as business. The person making the decision about what procedures and medications are offered should be the person with the knowledge of what treatment is needed and the goal should be the health of the individual. When the motivation is financial you get overspending and lack of resources. That is the broken nature of the system. Profiting from vulnerability is exploitative and systems that are based on this are inhumane.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

And cruel and unfair. The people currently receiving social security are actually the people who paid into it. I think, I might be making that up.

30 cents on every U.S. dollar of health care expense goes to the business of insurance whose goal is to make a profit and not to keep the populace healthy. Right there is your money to cover those w/o access. Having medical decisions in the hands of those who stand to profit financially is the core of the broken system. The pharmaceutical companies make profit by people being sick and buying drugs. There is more money to be made from illness than wellness. PPOs make a profit off of supplying more procedures for people.

On the other hand, the doctors in HMOs have income based on capitation which means they get a flat fee for each person who pays into their plan. The less health care they provide each person, the more money they get to keep.

The U.S. spends twice what other developed nations spend on health care because it is big business here. The choices to over treat in some plans and under treat in others results from everything being based on profit and health as business. The person making the decision about what procedures and medications are offered should be the person with the knowledge of what treatment is needed and the goal should be the health of the individual. When the motivation is financial you get overspending and lack of resources. That is the broken nature of the system. Profiting from vulnerability is exploitative and systems that are based on this are inhumane.

I believe that. I still think they should get rid of social security though.