Why America can't have nice things...

BenW said:
I dunno. I think you can find just as much idiotic racist/nationalistic sentiment in say, Europe, and I think it's just as loud.
Hell, a big section of those guys are eager to kill eachother over football, like, every year.
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No, really, Europeans are not loud the way Americans are. Racism doesn't have borders of course, but people will try not to show it too much here (there is more and more of it though...).

Besides, football hooligans are just a handful of lunatics who just want to fight for the fun of it (which is really stupid but please don't say it's a majority).

And as far as America go... Well... Let's say my opinion is very European. But people are stupid everywhere really. Humans...
 
Only in the USA could financial concerns be considered more important than a system that can help save more human lives.

For once, its nice to see that the people are being the stupid ones, instead of the government. Nice role reversal there compared to the last few years.
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Tamagochi said:
so... basically insurance companies have organized a gang of rednecks to show some public "dissatisfaction". The intent is to make people react emotionally so they could not think rationally about the subject. The more mindless and heated debates the better. Standard tactics worldwide.
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I am one of those RED NECKS. And no the insurance company did not pay me anything. I also hate insurance companies. The government has run the health care system into the ground with all of it's regulations. And now they want to fix it. They can't fix it. Look at what they have done to social security. They were never supposed to touch the money and they did. Hell they even gave themselves a raise. Can you vote yourself a raise? God knows I can't. People are going to be really surprised when the rest of the silent majority speaks up. We are tired of being screwed over by our own government and we are going to vote them out in the end.
 
efromm said:
I am one of those RED NECKS. And no the insurance company did not pay me anything. I also hate insurance companies. The government has run the health care system into the ground with all of it's regulations. And now they want to fix it. They can't fix it. Look at what they have done to social security. They were never supposed to touch the money and they did. Hell they even gave themselves a raise. Can you vote yourself a raise? God knows I can't. People are going to be really surprised when the rest of the silent majority speaks up. We are tired of being screwed over by our own government and we are going to vote them out in the end.
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Eh? Are you kidding?

First off, using the ambiguous term "the government" did this and that is rather hilarious considered this is a government for the people and by the people. We are the government! Second, who in "the government" messed up Social Security by borrowing from it? Ronald Reagan did! Let me know if you need help voting him out. In fact, what people in "the government" led it for twelve years, cut back on regulations for insurance companies, and virtually designed the health care system we have now that is on the verge of failing? The Republicans! And what party has been voted a super majority so as to replace those particular individuals in "the government" who screwed up health care and social security? The Democrats! Guess what? The people who messed things up are not all the same people who are in charge now. We already voted in the last election to fix "the government" so that we would have a body of people more suited towards fixing health care.
 
I know that the impression in the US of the British 'socialised' health care system is of long lines of people waiting impatiently for the honour of seeing an over worked and under paid doctor but the truth is if any government tried to privatise even a small part of the NHS there would be riots, and they wouldn't be the government much longer, the NHS is a much loved and cherised national institution that I and most of the rest of the country are proud of.

It is also very easy to get to get private health care if thats your preference, but if you do you still (quite rightly) contribute to the public health care system.

I find it hard to believe that a country puts health care in the hands of people who prioritise profit over providing the best possible care for all, peoples health is just too important to be left to 'the markets'.
 
Shai Gar said:
Hey! Leave them be.

Fewer Americans around is a good thing.
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Ya we could say the same thing of ENTPs. :m146:

errrrrrrrrrm said:
I know that the impression in the US of the British 'socialised' health care system is of long lines of people waiting impatiently for the honour of seeing an over worked and under paid doctor but the truth is if any government tried to privatise even a small part of the NHS there would be riots, and they wouldn't be the government much longer, the NHS is a much loved and cherised national institution that I and most of the rest of the country are proud of.

It is also very easy to get to get private health care if thats your preference, but if you do you still (quite rightly) contribute to the public health care system.

I find it hard to believe that a country puts health care in the hands of people who prioritise profit over providing the best possible care for all, peoples health is just too important to be left to 'the markets'.
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People need to watch the Movie Sicko, its by Micheal More. Granted I don't like the guys way of doing things. But its a good documentary about health care. And shows why America is it doing wrong.
 
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Blind Bandit said:
People need to watch the Movie Sicko, its by Micheal More. Granted I don't like the guys way of doing things. But its a good documentary about health care. And shows why America is it doing wrong.
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not really a fan of his, I find him too partisan and his arguments could have so much more impact if he wasn't, although I usually think he's on the right side of the issues.

I remember seeing him on a panel show in the UK the night of the US elections in 2004 and the only thing he could offer was "both candidates should agree to let the winner of the popular vote be president", and his interview with O'Reilly when he spent the whole time trying to score points over relatively miniscule issues (anyone with half a brain can win an argument with big mouth bill)
 
As a friend so wonderfully put it to me...

Health care is a right, not a luxury.

If anyone is claiming to be an INFJ and honestly don't believe the above to be true, then I would seriously suggest re-evaluating your own personally.

I can tell people some not-particularly-nice stories regarding people I know who have suffered because of America's joke of a healthcare system and its horrendous joke of public health services if they really wanna put into practise that "empathy" quality that INFJs are supposed to be famous for.
 
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we only have three rights. To rape, to defend, to take consequences.
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Satya said:
What makes health care a right?
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Are you kidding me?

The ability to live a healthy life isn't a basic human right? The freedom to be treated for illnesses and conditions that could potentially kill you isn't a basic human right?

I for one know one of my parents would no longer still be here if public healthcare wasn't available to us at a time when financial strife was rampant and the money to pay for such things simply didn't exist.

I also know of a person (my ex-fianc
 
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Satya said:
What makes health care a right?
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what makes anything a right? Does a person have a right to clean water? To basic food? To be rescued from their burning home? To have protection against criminals?

It's yes to all of them because you don't get a choice over whether you need them or not.
 
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Words of Irony said:
Are you kidding me?

The ability to live a healthy life isn't a basic human right?
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No.

Words of Irony said:
The freedom to be treated for illnesses and conditions that could potentially kill you isn't a basic human right?
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The freedom to be treated for those illnesses is a right.
The guarantee to be treated for them is not a right.

Freedom is not people being forced to part with property.

Rights which require people to provide things for you aren't rights at all.
 
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BenW said:
No.

The freedom to be treated for those illnesses is a right.
The guarantee to be treated for them is not a right.

Rights which require people to provide things for you aren't rights at all.
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Do those people, in the US and around the world, who cannot afford to pay for health insurance or the cost of health care have the freedom to be treated for those illnesses?

If I say you can have the freedom to go where ever you want in the world but then prevent you from leaving your house by bricking up the doors and windows then I have taken that freedom away from you.
 
Words of Irony said:
It is when you are unable to get them by yourself, through no fault of your own.
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Nooooot really...
I suppose anything can be true, when you make it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_and_negative_rights

I would like to point out how hilarious it is, that you think a "right" to healthcare already somehow exists, when a "right" to food doesn't even exist.
Like, anywhere in the world, de facto.

errrrrrrrrrm said:
Do those people, in the US and around the world, who cannot afford to pay for health insurance or the cost of health care have the freedom to be treated for those illnesses?
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That they do.

Not being able to afford something doesn't equate to not having the freedom to buy it.

errrrrrrrrrm said:
If I say you can have the freedom to go where ever you want in the world but then prevent you from leaving your house by bricking up the doors and windows then I have taken that freedom away from you.
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Hm. In order to give people the freedom to go anywhere in the world they wanted would require the cooperation of every government on Earth, which would be no small accomplishment.
And, bricking up my door would also damage my property, which is an active violation of my rights.
 
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I think in society humans have rights. But the concept of rights falls apart outside of society in an absolute nature setting. We have rights because we can enforce them through a variety of means. Some are based on physiological needs, others on ideas, etc.

Nature follows its own set of rules.
 
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