why are some of us disliked?

[Hotherym]

Also in the friend group. Sometimes I make mistakes expressing intuition and then I realize what happened. I usually just want to explain "it's just a sketch, not that conclusive, I second guess every single thing in my brain, and it's not that personal since I think of everyone that way, etc."

I have a hard time with flirty banter and social rituals (I know Fe is supposed to take care of that, but either I'm a hybrid type or it doesn't work that way in my case). I have occasionally attempted dressing in a semi-sexy manner and it seriously gave me heeby-geebies the way I was looked at like a piece of meat. I think this goes back to often getting a core, somewhat primitive vibe from people. I end up not wearing make-up, hardly fixing my hair, and wearing cautious clothes. I don't advertise well.

A third reason is that I don't respond in time to people. They have trouble reading me and my lack of response gets interpreted as being their negative fear they project on me. I have often had to work really hard to undo those assumptions. It stuns me sometimes how far off base they can be. I feel badly, but also realize I have little control over it. It makes me tired to be around people which leads to the last reason...

I don't spend much time socializing.

Heh, this is definitely me all the way and back again.

I don't hate INFJ girls. If I had to pick out of all the personality types, I'd probably want to marry an INFJ, but I wouldn't be biased against other types if I really loved them. A lot of people always say, "Guys want logical girls," but I've always felt opposite. I want to be able to openly express my feelings with her and I want to be able to hear hers. But I'm an INFJ so I guess that makes me weird by default.

Man, I'd die to be with a guy who actually wanted that. Good lord. I thought that was every woman's dream.

Anyway, I identify with all that was said on here so far, which scares me. I've always felt, since a very young age, that I'd be truly alone once my family was gone and that there'd be no one else.

 

[Azure_Knight]

Heh, this is definitely me all the way and back again.

Anyway, I identify with all that was said on here so far, which scares me. I've always felt, since a very young age, that I'd be truly alone once my family was gone and that there'd be no one else.

We all become orphans when our parents die. It is something that I fear and dread more than words can convey.

 

[Faye]

INFJ girls get flack for the same reason INFJ guys do; we are intimidating. You are there with your piercing eyes saying little and reading deep into the situation, though not always, and people take it the wrong way.

Man, I'd die to be with a guy who actually wanted that. Good lord. I thought that was every woman's dream.

That is what I want too (except in my case a woman), but I find most people aren't willing to put up with me. I can't say I blame them.

 

[thataway]

My high school boyfriend once told me that all of his friends thought I was a complete snob and none of them could understand what he saw in me.

Until he said as much, I had no idea I was perceived that way.

 

[Hotherym]

We all become orphans when our parents die. It is something that I fear and dread more than words can convey.

It was hard. Very hard. Mostly, for me, it was because there was really no one else that understood me like they did; I'm definitely my parents' daughter, no doubt about that. We were a close family because we all ended up being fairly alike, which was very lucky, I think

What's worse is the same bad health is messing with all my other family, too. And I just got totally dumped by a guy with whom I dreamt and had amazing ESP experiences, who meant the world to me. It's possible a lot of the reasons mentioned in this thread played a role, because I've suspected them for a long time.

It's hardcore. I wish I could make my brain into that of a lizard's. Daaaaamn iiiiit.

INFJ girls get flack for the same reason INFJ guys do; we are intimidating. You are there with your piercing eyes saying little and reading deep into the situation, though not always, and people take it the wrong way.

That is what I want too (except in my case a woman), but I find most people aren't willing to put up with me. I can't say I blame them.

What the hell do you do? Constantly try to light their hair on fire in their sleep? STOP IT.

But seriously, from what I read all you do is become obsessive compulsive about the people you may/may not be attracted to. Is that it?

 

[Tamagochi]

wowowow wow you amaze me people My emotional drive nearly overloaded after reading all your posts in this thread.

It's almost funny, because I am a straight guy and have the exact same problems when dating a girl. I know how it feels to be seemingly forever doomed in "friends" zone. For a long time I thought there's something weird about me. I love the way I am EXCEPT for the intimate relationships part which is downright disastrous for me. I am not bad looking, have an above average earning ability and intelligence, travelled half around the world, have lots of friends. And yet at 28 have never had sex - can you believe that? Of course, I could have had it a decade ago, but this strange idea just stuck to my mind, that I only want to do it with a woman I love. Anything else seems so... desecrating? I have fallen in love so many times and it was so intense for me, yet I had never had the feeling back for some strange reason... Still I am a sucker for that elusive concept "true love". And that's only a fragment of my overall complexity.

An even funnier notion I had was that if I were a girl, it would have been so much easier for me Being intuitive and emotionally sensitive is considered "girly" in our society stereotype, so it would supposedly have been an advantage (most online tests "to reveal my inner gender" tell me I am female anyway LOL).

Recently I have begun to analyze my behavior under more scrutiny. I have found out, that:
1) I can easily make friends with almost any girl if I set myself a target "to become just friends and nothing more". The way I do it is something similar to tuning my mind to an appropriate wavelength of the other person. I can easily detect our common interests, listen attentively, comfort them. Most of the times I am almost unaware when doing it. That is all great friend material.

2) When using this ability for intimate relationships, it sort of backfires on me. I come through as being too nice, too understanding and lacking inner substance. It's as if I become a mirror of the girl in front of me, soaked in her emotions. Though in reality I have a lot of inner things to bring on the table - I just need time and reassurance.

3) When in an intimate relationship I prefer things very fast and very deep. After only ten minutes of conversation I know if the girl is "the right one". I know it sounds unbelievable, but I am rarely wrong. From there it seems such a drag for me to go through all that dating ritual and waiting for the feelings to arrive on the other side. I guess such an attitude can be seen as intimidating. People do not like being rushed and they do not like being idolized. More on this subject is discussed here http://infj.tribe.net/thread/7ce889eb-b696-49b1-a8e1-76f00ab55074

4) Though most of the dating advice books tell me to stop "being a nice guy" - I cannot do it. I cannot be indifferent to people, I cannot stop idealizing love. Because if I let it go, I would lose myself. Therefore I need a different approach - one where I could use my abilities to get advantage instead of having to constantly damp them.

Summing it all up, my progress seems very slow, but I am quite optimistic of the future. The best is saved for the last

* * *

Actually I have an excellent idea. Since I can produce insights into other people with ease, but it's very hard to do it for myself - maybe we could exchange our visions. For example I know exactly how a girl with INFJ preferences could be very successful in relationships. Maybe you girls have some advice for me? How would you behave if you were an INFJ guy trying to get a girl?

For my part, if I imagine myself being a girl - the vision to being successful comes very clear and simple (my first post on this forum just keeps getting weirder and weirder) First of all, I would get rid of that "being piece of meat" mentality. A lot of women seem to be stuck with it though it's really an illusion. You see, guys do value the looks, but it's very different from how girls think of it. Men don't have the looks, therefore they are attracted to it. And when that part is satisfied, only then they can move on and enjoy the personality part. In the end they love it all madly and deeply, but it has to come in the right order. It's extremely attractive when a woman is conscious of her looks and allows to share it.

Next, I (as a girl) would use extraverted feelings very extensively. If it is properly combined with the looks - it becomes irresistible for almost any guy. And "properly" means any way my intuition tells me, except avoiding disapproval from people. "Properly" also means a bit like having a little love affair with yourself. All the other aspects of Fe are also very helpful: being kind, compassionate, open, friendly, emphatic etc. Then lots and lots can be gained from using Ni - I think a lot of girls would kill to have such an ability to instantly know the right people and to avoid the dangerous ones. To see things through as we see it.

It was just a couple of thoughts that came to my mind, but I have many more. If you have questions - you can ask them. I would be glad to share more insights.

 

[Nat]

Tamagochi -

See your (4).

I,too, have a problem with people thinking nice is a perjorative. No one likes someone who kisses arse and is always agreeable but I find that nice is often a description of people who have been raised with manners and to be considerate.

That's why I hate dating Tamagochi - apparently, if you were raised to be polite - that makes you a doormat or boring - you're not playing the game.

Frankly, if I like someone, I make time for them - it doesn't mean that I have nothing else to do and I'm desperate.

 

[Nat]

I think the main reason we have trouble is that we aren't social creatures in the popular sense. We don't really like big crowds and we don't have to be the center of attention. I'm horrible at small talk, probably because I hate it and find it to be nothing but a ceremonial act required by society. I never know what to say, because I don't want to sound shallow. I know that I've always had low self-esteem, so I never had the confidence to approach anyone. My self-esteem issues were not just physical, but also that I always think that people are going to find me to be an idiot. People always tell me that they're intimidated by my intelligence, but that hasn't kept me from feeling they think I'm stupid. I've been told by people that clearly didn't like me, but later became my friends that I seemed like I thought I was better than everyone else because I didn't talk to anyone and I was really smart. In reality, I'm just too shy

I get this. I'm told I'm standoffish or cold when I'm just looking around to see where I fit into the scheme of things and who is who. I can't understand anyone who would jump into a pool of water with both feet without knowing how deep the water is first. That's how I view new social situations. I don't want to cause ripples of discomfort and I don't want to make a big splash and embarrass myself. I think I'm being polite but everyone else thinks I'm standoffish.

Then again, I think people equate superficial with fun and deep thinking with boring. And then I get abandoned and I wonder why my self-esteem is ebbing away from me again.

I am freaking about it. My INFJ-ness has left me unable to connect with a partner because they people who appreciate us are so hard to find. I'm gonna miss out on having kids soon...

 

[Eniko]

2) When using this ability for intimate relationships, it sort of backfires on me. I come through as being too nice, too understanding and lacking inner substance. It's as if I become a mirror of the girl in front of me, soaked in her emotions. Though in reality I have a lot of inner things to bring on the table - I just need time and reassurance.

3) When in an intimate relationship I prefer things very fast and very deep. After only ten minutes of conversation I know if the girl is "the right one". I know it sounds unbelievable, but I am rarely wrong. From there it seems such a drag for me to go through all that dating ritual and waiting for the feelings to arrive on the other side. I guess such an attitude can be seen as intimidating. People do not like being rushed and they do not like being idolized. More on this subject is discussed here http://infj.tribe.net/thread/7ce889eb-b696-49b1-a8e1-76f00ab55074

4) Though most of the dating advice books tell me to stop "being a nice guy" - I cannot do it. I cannot be indifferent to people, I cannot stop idealizing love. Because if I let it go, I would lose myself. Therefore I need a different approach - one where I could use my abilities to get advantage instead of having to constantly damp them.

I feel like I could've written these points. Especially #3. Once I twig on to how I feel about someone I tend to just be sure of my decision, like all my decisions once made. I think that's a very INFJ type of thing to do, but in dating it kind of makes the whole exploratory phase feel like it's just dragging on and on.

I think Ni, Fe, Ti and to a lesser extent Se come together pretty uniquely in INFJs which creates a powerful concoction for our type moving incredibly fast. I think particularly Ni lets us see a raging bonfire where there's still only embers.

Ti augments this, letting us analyze it and once we feel satisfied that our Ni accurately diagnosed the feeling, we become even more sure of it. Then Fe kicks in because to us the embers may as well be a bonfire and we end up craving a deeper connection very early on in the process.

Meanwhile even though the road of exploration is still ahead of us we feel like we've arrived already, and the rest is completely redundant and meaningless. And we hate things that don't have meaning, so we'd rather just skip the whole thing and move on to the good bits!

And I figure that it's this that might be what's most offputting. A tendency to move past the initial stages at terrifically high speeds, we're a bonfire to someone's embers, and we don't properly give them the chance to travel the road we've already seen and arrive at the same conclusions. And maybe we're not just displeasing the other by doing this, thinking about it. Because after all, can't those initial stages be incredibly good, too?

Of course. This is all my theory I just came up with. Feel free to disagree with any particular point. :tongue:

Next, I (as a girl) would use extraverted feelings very extensively. If it is properly combined with the looks - it becomes irresistible for almost any guy. And "properly" means any way my intuition tells me, except avoiding disapproval from people.

I wouldn't do that, Ni is notoriously unreliable when you're biased. Not to mention if my above theory is right Ni might make you express things through Fe which are inappropriately early on for the relationship.

 

[Azure_Knight]

I get this. I'm told I'm standoffish or cold when I'm just looking around to see where I fit into the scheme of things and who is who. I can't understand anyone who would jump into a pool of water with both feet without knowing how deep the water is first. That's how I view new social situations. I don't want to cause ripples of discomfort and I don't want to make a big splash and embarrass myself. I think I'm being polite but everyone else thinks I'm standoffish.

Then again, I think people equate superficial with fun and deep thinking with boring. And then I get abandoned and I wonder why my self-esteem is ebbing away from me again.

I am freaking about it. My INFJ-ness has left me unable to connect with a partner because they people who appreciate us are so hard to find. I'm gonna miss out on having kids soon...

It can be fun to dive in sometimes. The water's great

Sometimes you have to be a bit more outgoing to set the mood a little bit lighter; things can always go from ligher to serious, but unless something funny happens it is difficult to go the other way

I don't equate superficial or deep thinking with boring. The super deluxe ultra powerful blue blazing barrage of self introspective questions will start out like this *charging*

Are you having fun doing what you are doing? Do you care about having fun? Do you enjoy what you are doing? What are you really looking for? Do you want to change? Do you want others to change? Do you expect others to adopt your viewpoint, or are you willing to work towards a common middle ground?

I find the middle ground is a good place to go since one person doesn't have to walk all the way over into another's shoes (although being able to walk in others' shoes is a good trait I think).

Oh, and don't forget your smile. The real one from deep down that is so beautiful. I know I'd love to see it.

 

[WickedPod]

Tamagochi - Please, don't compromise yourself. I can tell you that being a virgin at 28 is attractive to women like me. Also, being kind, sympathetic, and sensitive is attractive to women like me. Most of the time, I wish I'd remained a virgin until I got married. Something that I've always found so attractive about my husband is that...well, sorta' that. He only ever slept with his ex-wife and me. He didn't even sleep with her until he was into his 20s after a few years of dating. I love that. It makes me feel so special. I wish I could give him that same feeling, but I made a few mistakes.

My oldest brother is an INFJ. He's had a lot of relationship trouble. He's very attractive and smart and has brought in decent money since he finally got his ass in line around the age of 22 or 23. He is very devoted, sensitive, infinitely kind and tolerant. Many women see him as a doormat and as a friend-only. When he likes a girl, he's head-over-heels and doesn't see any of their flaws b/c he has so much faith in the goodness of every person. I never found that 1 single girl he dated was deserving of him, until his wife came along. He just got married last year. He is 35 and met her 6 months before they married, just so you realize how long it took him to get there. Have patience - I understand that it's hard at our age (I'm 28 also), but the TRUE right girl will come along. I've always been more prone to dating someone only if I can see myself marrying them...of course, b/c of that I've been engaged three times. )

Hang in there. While I've never personally met another girl like me, there's other girls out there that would find your traits very appealing like I do. Which is worse - 28+ years old finding the one you are meant for, or 28- years with girls that aren't the right ones and needlessly suffering heartache?

Dammit! I can't seem to get all my words out and NOT have a long-ass post. Sorry!!

 

[Faye]

I'd hate to be 28 and a virgin. I hate being 19 and a virgin. Well, I'm split on the issue.

The important thing to realize though is that having sex does not make you a better person.

Sorry Tamagochi, I don't have any good advice, and I'm not a girl. All I can say is this: don't change yourself for the girls you are interest in; hopefully, they will recognize and appreciate that. What I mean is, don't agree with them on everything if you don't. Sorry if what I am saying is not relevant.

You need to have your own opinions and personality as opposed to mirroring the person you are interested in. You can still be a nice guy and do this; don't become argumentative.

 

[Tamagochi]

I'd hate to be 28 and a virgin. I hate being 19 and a virgin. Well, I'm split on the issue.

I wouldn't call it that way - or at least it differs a lot from how I used to hate it when I was 19. If it's just getting laid we're speaking about - I could do it even tonight. There are some girls who would happily help me out on such a "problem" Just a few phone calls away - it's really THAT easy.

But here comes the hard part. Do I really want it? Reducing the idea of love to just f**king, using other people to satisfy my needs like sanitary towels. I also suspect that I would become emotionally attached to that girl because of sex - and I don't need that. On the other hand, lately I've been thinking that sexual experience might give me some extra confidence in building relationships, so it's very tempting to try. Maybe I'm just being too much prince charming and too little human?

Anyway my intuition tells me this virginity issue will be resolved one way or another in a not so distant future, so I am not really worried about it.

I think the main reason we have trouble is that we aren't social creatures in the popular sense. We don't really like big crowds and we don't have to be the center of attention. I'm horrible at small talk, probably because I hate it and find it to be nothing but a ceremonial act required by society. I never know what to say, because I don't want to sound shallow. I know that I've always had low self-esteem, so I never had the confidence to approach anyone. My self-esteem issues were not just physical, but also that I always think that people are going to find me to be an idiot. People always tell me that they're intimidated by my intelligence, but that hasn't kept me from feeling they think I'm stupid. I've been told by people that clearly didn't like me, but later became my friends that I seemed like I thought I was better than everyone else because I didn't talk to anyone and I was really smart. In reality, I'm just too shy.

You might be wrong in that area and it takes another INFJ to point it out I certainly know how it feels, but if you look at it more closely then shyness is just another name for extraverted feelings. Only they are working against you instead of for you. And it’s completely in your power to turn things around.

Let me explain: “I never know what to say” really means that you do have something to say, but you’re at the same time busy probing other people on what’s appropriate to say. And in your mind you’re intuitively trying to connect those things into one. Sometimes they don’t fit and you have to backtrack and double-checking for mistakes, trying to decide on what to do. All of this looks quite complicated, involves Ni, Ti and Fe, but happens unconsciously. It’s no wonder that in all that extra reasoning we sometimes lose what we wanted to say in the first place. And we might think of ourselves less intelligent than we really are because of that.

If you explained that to extraverted people, they would probably advice you to “just spill it out” without the extra reasoning attached. But it’s not how we tick We cannot shut down Fe activity, but we can change it’s direction. You can instruct it to look for signs of support to your actions instead of disapproval. It changes a lot because all that chain of reasoning suddenly gets a shortcut: you have something to say -> you find emotional support for it - > you say it very clearly and convincingly.

It has done wonders for me when doing public appearances (just 10 years ago it was “me? Enjoying public speeches? Not in a lifetime!”). I have written more on this topic here.

 

[WickedPod]

I wouldn't call it that way - or at least it differs a lot from how I used to hate it when I was 19. If it's just getting laid we're speaking about - I could do it even tonight. There are some girls who would happily help me out on such a "problem" Just a few phone calls away - it's really THAT easy.

But here comes the hard part. Do I really want it? Reducing the idea of love to just f**king, using other people to satisfy my needs like sanitary towels. I also suspect that I would become emotionally attached to that girl because of sex - and I don't need that. On the other hand, lately I've been thinking that sexual experience might give me some extra confidence in building relationships, so it's very tempting to try. Maybe I'm just being too much prince charming and too little human?

Anyway my intuition tells me this virginity issue will be resolved one way or another in a not so distant future, so I am not really worried about it.

You might be wrong in that area and it takes another INFJ to point it out I certainly know how it feels, but if you look at it more closely then shyness is just another name for extraverted feelings. Only they are working against you instead of for you. And it

 

[chaotic_lion]

This explains why I'm SO ALONE!!!!!*sob*

 

[midnightmelody]

I think that for infj girls with guys
yes, they probably dislike how we are so enigmatic and that they can't figure us out, while we know exactly what they are up to at all times
thus giving us the upper hand
also, infj are very complex, which is another turnoff.

 

[Nausus]

Some people have told me they dislike me because i'm "too nice". I don't know how that works, but um.. yeah that's what they've told me.

I've also been disliked because i'm too opinionated. I can see why people would dislike me for it, but if another person tries to "disprove" my opinion I can get a bit defensive.

 

[alcyone]

I'm disliked because I remain a bitch until I start to like you.

 

[Faye]

But seriously, from what I read all you do is become obsessive compulsive about the people you may/may not be attracted to. Is that it?

I don't know why women don't like me. If I am obsessive compulsive about a girl, I don't show it outside of this online forum.

My theory is that women, like men, want someone who is easy. I'm not easy. I'm not hard, but I'm not easy.

 

[laurie]

I'm kind of more like a mother/friend than a girlfriend type. I prefer to sit back and let my 'children' (I do call most of my friends my children ^^) grow and flourish and move on with their lives.
I think it's also a kind of secrecy that makes most INFJ's seem a bit guarded around people, which I think leads people into thinking they can't trust them.
I also have the issue of acting and dressing in an androgynous way so most people rarely notice me. I tend to wear shirts that are too big or random t-shirts and I wear jeans nearly all the time, even in summer.
I also just don't feel that way towards people. I tend to view them as people I look after or talk to rather than potential relationships. Though when I met someone I think is probably an INFJ it freaked me out because I've never met one before and it does feel like they can read you "