Why are we here?

ZenCat said:
1. Are we the way we are, do we think the way we think and feel the way we feel in order to achieve recognition or reverence for it from others?

2. And if we don't receive that recognition, then we are obsolete? That's kind of what I got from your post, Freedom. Correct me if I'm wrong :)

3. I don't actually feel like any of us are the way we are by deliberate choice, and we'll go on thinking/feeling/behaving/believing as we do regardless of our "tribe's" need for us, or lack thereof.

Maybe we're that quintessential tree falling in the forest.
Click to expand...


Oh, I also realized that I have tentitively agreed to solve the worlds most ancient of questions...Why are we here. :ml: Sh*t. What the hell have I done. Oh, I still don't have the numbers anyway, but want to throw this in the ring for consideration.

1. No, that's just our egos begging all of that nasty attention. I think the ego is the most destructive force in myself and everyone I see around me. It also makes me laugh.

2. Are we obsolete without it? No. My best experiences in life have been when I have decidedly put it on the back burner for larger issues that would have no impact on my status or feelings of self. It is bigger than me. A big ego can't handle that realization, nor can a fragile one, so that's why we need to take good care of those...

3. We are fully responsible for who we actually are, I believe, from one moment to the next. We are responsible for fundamentals from small to large...are we cautious, are we loving, are we insightful...albeit some are perhaps more tapped in then others. Some can live in that skin more easily, perhaps.

gotta go
 
G.Kai said:
Quinlan, well stated and I agree with you. The problem I have is that the mystic, oracle, priest, shaman designation is so tied into religion, mythology, new age-y-ness, and superstition, I have no clue as to how our role can be legititemately secularized. I think it needs to be. Do you agree, and any ideas?
Click to expand...

Yes I agree with that, I think a good start would be acceptance of mbti (or something similar) in the mainstream. The closest modern secular form I could think of would be a counselour or consultant.


ZenCat said:
Serious keeper. Quinlan, you frequently impress the fsck out of me.
Click to expand...

Why thank you ZenCat, I hope to keep that up. :D

Freedom said:
If it's because of evolutionary psycology, then we are obsolete and we need to be exterminated, since we don't live in a primitive society anymore.
Click to expand...

Under the definition you seem to be using many types would be "obsolete". I agree that we are in an awkward stage in our development we possess advanced technology and civilisations yet individually our minds still often operate in primitive ways. Almost like humanity's puperty, a clumsy and unhappy stage, I'm just hoping we can survive it before we destroy the planet. Evolution is too slow so that's not going to help us, what we do have going for us is that we are concious, self aware and are capable of a great deal of learning. If enough people become aware that in many ways with society and technology we have tried to run before we can walk, we might be able to make changes that utilize every human's potential to the full.

I mean, do you really think people take notice when you have a "premonition" or "dream" and it happens in the future? Or when you KNOW what someone is really like (their motives/intentions) and later, you find out you were right all along, when everybody else thought so-and-so to be something else? Do you think people go and say "oh my gosh! I remember that dream of yours! " "I remember that dejavu you had two years ago!" "I remember you told me so-and-so wasn't to be trusted" ?
Click to expand...

This is almost laughable, I'm sorry, don't the words "I have a dream!" ring any bells to you? It's particularly relevant given current events.

Mmmmmm. No, people just don't take notes, they don't pay attention to what you're saying, and if they do, they don't know what to make of it. Take me back to the tribal time, please, where people would actually pay attention on what we noticed, take note and prevent themselves from been harmed. That's just my personal life-learned lesson on how usually people respond to our "intuition" Now I've got to think what our purpose on earth are, in modern society
Click to expand...

I agree that modern society has a lot of work to do, especially in the areas of accepting, tolerating and appreciating different types, that does not mean you have no use, if anything your type should be at the forefront of this societal change.
 
HolySmoke said:
Or if your beliefs are correct it becomes a given. That's still progress. Better to be that way than the alternative. It's just not everyone will understand, that's just the way it is. I mean, do you understand why you are the way you are?
Click to expand...


I gave up trying to understand why I am this way. I do pay attention to my intuition, can be both life-saving and deal breaking at times :)
Maybe Al Gore is an improved "seer"in our society. At least he can get people to pay attention to his important messages. I don't know if he's infj, though. ehehehehehhehe
 
*notices that 4 pages later, we finally get back on topic*

lol...
 
ZenCat said:
Serious keeper. Quinlan, you frequently impress the fsck out of me.



See now, I feel very comfortable with Quinlan's analysis. Perhaps because I was raised without religion (and also without religious prejudice), I don't feel pidgeonholed or confined by any "mystical" requirements or stigma. I feel that being granted the role of guide, seer, whatever across vast cultural divides would grant a certain freedom of thought and expression as well.
Click to expand...

Zen, agreed. It's not for myself that I'm concerned. If we are granted these roles, my concern is, as Quinlan pointed out so well, that the majority of those who may want this kind of help do see these roles as obsolete. They were perfectly legitimate designations during their times, but perhaps we might want to think in some new, uncharted, and creative direction. I suppose that's part of the question I'm asking. How do we make the traditional role of the intuitive acceptable to secular society?
 
ZenCat said:
Are we the way we are, do we think the way we think and feel the way we feel in order to achieve recognition or reverence for it from others? And if we don't receive that recognition, then we are obsolete? That's kind of what I got from your post, Freedom. Correct me if I'm wrong :)

I don't actually feel like any of us are the way we are by deliberate choice, and we'll go on thinking/feeling/behaving/believing as we do regardless of our "tribe's" need for us, or lack thereof.

Maybe we're that quintessential tree falling in the forest.
Click to expand...


I just think that, if we are the way we are because of psychologic evolution, than we have to figure what are our purpose in the modern society. If we are the way we are because we had a function and that function was recognise by the others, then what are our function today, in today's society? That's what I was going for. It's not about recognition. It's about adaptation to this evolition. Sorry if I gave you the "celebrity" impression. ehehehehhe
 
Quinlan said:
Yes I agree with that, I think a good start would be acceptance of mbti (or something similar) in the mainstream. The closest modern secular form I could think of would be a counselour or consultant.
Click to expand...

Counselor is our natural fit. Did you know that the US Army Myer's Briggs to place people in positions. My husband is an INTP and has an appropriate large architect type of position that makes perfect sense for him. I could never do it, but I thought this was interesting and I was surprised to hear it.
 
Quinlan said:
Yes I agree with that, I think a good start would be acceptance of mbti (or something similar) in the mainstream. The closest modern secular form I could think of would be a counselour or consultant.

Under the definition you seem to be using many types would be "obsolete". I agree that we are in an awkward stage in our development we possess advanced technology and civilisations yet individually our minds still often operate in primitive ways. Almost like humanity's puperty, a clumsy and unhappy stage, I'm just hoping we can survive it before we destroy the planet. Evolution is too slow so that's not going to help us, what we do have going for us is that we are concious, self aware and are capable of a great deal of learning. If enough people become aware that in many ways with society and technology we have tried to run before we can walk, we might be able to make changes that utilize every human's potential to the full.


I agree that modern society has a lot of work to do, especially in the areas of accepting, tolerating and appreciating different types, that does not mean you have no use, if anything your type should be at the forefront of this societal change.
Click to expand...


Thank you for your insightful post. My own starting point is to become certified in administrating the MBTI. There are companies which specialize in going into workplaces and teaching others how to interrelate with other types. It's a good beginning, but this is an idea that reaches far beyond the work environment, and like you, I'm concerned with humanity's onslaught on the planet itself, and other human beings as well.

I was a supporter, more or less, of the Clinton administration. However, it was Bill Clinton who proclaimed there was "No linkage," between China's civil rights policy and its favored trade-nation status - a big step backward in my estimation. This is just one example of what I feel are the the many problems we face. I don't mean to sound Obama-esqe when using the word, change, but it is exactly what we need, globally, far beyond politics and economics, down to a stark humanitarian level.
 
Freedom said:
I just think that, if we are the way we are because of psychologic evolution, than we have to figure what are our purpose in the modern society. If we are the way we are because we had a function and that function was recognise by the others, then what are our function today, in today's society? That's what I was going for. It's not about recognition. It's about adaptation to this evolition. Sorry if I gave you the "celebrity" impression. ehehehehhe
Click to expand...

I'm going back and forth from Tae Kwon Doe for my son. Gotta go get him in about 1 minute.

You guys are thinking really large scale here, could we take it down to the forum at some point?

Doesn't it all start with building the family then the society?

If this is a family of types we establish that we are here, respectfully, to help each other if we can. Allowing people to have a solid footing, not a crutch, is why I am here.

Times out.
 
HolySmoke said:
Counselor is our natural fit. Did you know that the US Army Myer's Briggs to place people in positions. My husband is an INTP and has an appropriate large architect type of position that makes perfect sense for him. I could never do it, but I thought this was interesting and I was surprised to hear it.
Click to expand...

I agree with that sort of placement in some ways, however a lot of mbti is very intuitive, you have to place trust in the ability of people to type themselves. Mistyping could mean serious trouble if we started channeling people into specific areas based on that. I think what we need most of all is a general acceptance that people aren't all the same and eveyone has something to offer.
 
I so don't want to be Typed by the military!

:Cry:

What if they use me for eeeevil instead of good???
 
G.Kai said:
I was a supporter, more or less, of the Clinton administration. However, it was Bill Clinton who proclaimed there was "No linkage," between China's civil rights policy and its favored trade-nation status - a big step backward in my estimation. This is just one example of what I feel are the the many problems we face. I don't mean to sound Obama-esqe when using the word, change, but it is exactly what we need, globally, far beyond politics and economics, down to a stark humanitarian level.
Click to expand...

Will it ever happen? Fundamental change would hurt a lot of people in the short run but the alternative is a freight train happily picking up speed as we head towards a cliff.
 
Quinlan said:
Under the definition you seem to be using many types would be "obsolete". I agree that we are in an awkward stage in our development we possess advanced technology and civilisations yet individually our minds still often operate in primitive ways. Almost like humanity's puperty, a clumsy and unhappy stage, I'm just hoping we can survive it before we destroy the planet. Evolution is too slow so that's not going to help us, what we do have going for us is that we are concious, self aware and are capable of a great deal of learning. If enough people become aware that in many ways with society and technology we have tried to run before we can walk, we might be able to make changes that utilize every human's potential to the full.
Click to expand...

We're on the same page here.



Quinlan said:
This is almost laughable, I'm sorry, don't the words "I have a dream!" ring any bells to you? It's particularly relevant given current events.
Click to expand...

"Yes we can!" ehehehheheheheheh But you took the "dream" out of context. That's all right, though :)


Quinlan said:
I agree that modern society has a lot of work to do, especially in the areas of accepting, tolerating and appreciating different types, that does not mean you have no use, if anything your type should be at the forefront of this societal change.
Click to expand...

That's so kind of you. My main point is: yes, we had a function in our primal days. How can we adapt our intuition into these days? And I'm sorry if I came off so strong; I was being sarcastic.
 
HolySmoke said:
I'm going back and forth from Tae Kwon Doe for my son. Gotta go get him in about 1 minute.

You guys are thinking really large scale here, could we take it down to the forum at some point?

Doesn't it all start with building the family then the society?

If this is a family of types we establish that we are here, respectfully, to help each other if we can. Allowing people to have a solid footing, not a crutch, is why I am here.

Times out.
Click to expand...

I love your wisdom!
 
Freedom said:
"Yes we can!" ehehehheheheheheh But you took the "dream" out of context. That's all right, though :)
Click to expand...

I suppose what I was trying to say is that Martin Luther King was INFJ, his "dream" was probably based on something similar to yours. MLK types are certainly not obsolete, in fact they are some of the most valuable people we have.
 
Quinlan said:
I suppose what I was trying to say is that Martin Luther King was INFJ, his "dream" was probably based on something similar to yours. MLK types are certainly not obsolete, in fact they are some of the most valuable people we have.
Click to expand...


Yes, I know you were talking about MLK, It's just that Obama's been kind of the fulfillment, since he's not been judged by the color of his skin, but by his character.

I didn't know Martin Luther King was INFJ, though. Wow! Love it!
 
G.Kai said:
Don't worry, Zen. The military typed me 4-F, and that was a good thing.
Click to expand...

OH SH*T. NOT YOU SILLY. (Btw, I love how you've gone down being called Zen for short over the course of oh, what, about an hour? lol. ):ml:

When my husband was at the war college (yeah, I know, ironic isn't it...divine comedy i'd say) they studied Myer's Briggs for officers and how different types worked in certain capacities. He also just told me that they would ensure that some the overall staff was diverse so that there was a combined synergy.

Believe it or not, there are some serious thinkers in there too ! lol. Some pretty good leaders, who aren't all bad either, but I digress.

No, Zen, they are not big brother.:ml: That is, not yet. :mlight: just kidding.
Computers will do that soon enough.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top