Why are we so apathetic?

[Dohavior]

Do you think that people don’t decide to have a family and kids and then life happens and things fall to shit?
Don’t take humanity out of the equation INTP!
The only time I could ever wish for someone to be forcibly sterilized would be a Mother who has had multiple drug addicted, brain damaged children and cannot control herself to stop.
And even then, there are norplant devices that last 5-8 years I think something like that.
The shit you propose sounds awfully like the shit the Nazi’s proposed doing.

I think your intuition is shooting right straight over his head. What kind of INTP theorizes a plan that involves fleeting limitations. Everything out of his mouth is going to be Positive Intervention. Head doesn't know where the body is going.

Positive Intervention is a round about way of saying Anarchy. Both are an improper allusion which is broken in any moral viewpoint as being unsustainable from every perspective. Where are we going to get this new demographic of virtual interveners to carry out enforcement of anything that was stated?

There is no way to limit a demographic, you may restrict the population flow to one area but the people may go elsewhere because they still exist. All attempts to eliminate the problem prevent the problem from being solved, you are only creating a new meta problem.

The idea of Positive Intervention is screwed on all sides rigged to fail no matter how much brushing under the rug is done in maintenance and symptom soothing. Positive of course being an euphemism for Corporeal. So what you are saying is throw people at it then throw more people at it! Typical mob mentality, angry villagers, zerg fest with stagnant cold war effects of unproductive bureaucracy intermittently throughout that timeline.

 

[CogentPursuit]

Wrong….show me the statistics that irresponsible people are more likely to be poor?

I said that people are not necessarily poor because of they are irresponsible. I said that people who are irresponsible are likely to be poor. It is like saying people who don’t look both ways before they cross the street are more likely to get hit by a car. I don’t think such a statement needs backing by statistics and it would be a waste of my time.

Do you think that people don’t decide to have a family and kids and then life happens and things fall to shit?

I never indicated people who had kids and then became poor should be punished for it. People cannot anticipate every eventuality. What I said is that people who have kids ‘while’ they are incapable of taking care of the kids are irresponsible and also have little concern for the life they are potentially burdening. Your circumstances when you have a child could have an effect on that child’s entire life.

Don’t take humanity out of the equation INTP!

Are you insinuating that because I am INTP that I don’t understand what it means to be human? I simply don’t believe that the selfish needs of the many people who desire children or just sex outweighs the rights of those children to have decent lives, not subject to the burden of their parents selfish decisions. What is worse is that people are making decisions about 'their rights' at the expense of another human being, let alone their own children.

The only time I could ever wish for someone to be forcibly sterilized would be a Mother who has had multiple drug addicted, brain damaged children and cannot control herself to stop.

So you only wish something to be done when the damage is too obvious to ignore?

The shit you propose sounds awfully like the shit the Nazi’s proposed doing.

The Nazis may be responsible for a lot of bad shit but it doesn’t mean ‘everything’ they did is bad. Simply because you can draw a correlation between them wiping their ass and me wiping my ass does not mean me wiping my ass is evil. I would estimate you wipe your ass too. I would say it is a good thing to do as it prevents irritations and infections from fecal matter collecting and festering on your asshole. Of course, from the surface the process may seem disgusting but once you see the end result you will find that it was entirely necessary.

 

[Skarekrow]

I said that people are not necessarily poor because of they are irresponsible. I said that people who are irresponsible are likely to be poor. It is like saying people who don’t look both ways before they cross the street are more likely to get hit by a car. I don’t think such a statement needs backing by statistics and it would be a waste of my time.

I never indicated people who had kids and then became poor should be punished for it. People cannot anticipate every eventuality. What I said is that people who have kids ‘while’ they are incapable of taking care of the kids are irresponsible and also have little concern for the life they are potentially burdening. Your circumstances when you have a child could have an effect on that child’s entire life.

Are you insinuating that because I am INTP that I don’t understand what it means to be human? I simply don’t believe that the selfish needs of the many people who desire children or just sex outweighs the rights of those children to have decent lives, not subject to the burden of their parents selfish decisions.

So you only wish something to be done when the damage is too obvious to ignore?

The Nazis may be responsible for a lot of bad shit but it doesn’t mean ‘everything’ they did is bad. Simply because you can draw a correlation between them wiping their ass and me wiping my ass does not mean me wiping my ass is evil. I would estimate you wipe your ass too. I would say it is a good thing to do as it prevents irritations and infections from fecal matter collecting and festering on your asshole. Of course, from the surface the process may seem disgusting but once you see the end result you will find that it was entirely necessary.

Really?
You can justify any position in many different ways, even scenarios where it may start to sound logical, but you are talking about some inhuman shit.
And maybe they are dumb-fucks who shouldn’t have kids because they have no money and are on drugs, but as members of the society that we have chosen to live in we are under obligation to them to hold all our citizens to a certain standard of living. And while it would be convenient to grind the poor into Soylent Green to re-feed the retards it’s still fucking wrong any way you want to try and paint your picture of apathy.

 

[CogentPursuit]

Really?
You can justify any position in many different ways, even scenarios where it may start to sound logical, but you are talking about some inhuman shit.
And maybe they are dumb-fucks who shouldn’t have kids because they have no money and are on drugs, but as members of the society that we have chosen to live in we are under obligation to them to hold all our citizens to a certain standard of living. And while it would be convenient to grind the poor into Soylent Green to re-feed the retards it’s still fucking wrong any way you want to try and paint your picture of apathy.

As I said from the beginning 'people are too reasonable to do what is necessary.' I do appreciate the discussion but it seems that it has been reduced to 'it is just wrong'. I cannot have an argument against your simple statement of belief as belief is inarguable and entirely subjective. The reality is that people destroy their children's lives and we let them by not holding them accountable.

 

[Skarekrow]

As I said from the beginning 'people are too reasonable to do what is necessary.' I do appreciate the discussion but it seems that it has been reduced to 'it is just wrong'. I cannot have an argument against your simple statement of belief as belief is inarguable and entirely subjective. The reality is that people destroy their children's lives and we let them by not holding them accountable.

I can agree that there needs to be more accountability but the question begs who makes the rules and who holds who accountable?
It’s a downward spiral if you don’t discuss ethics and humanity as a feeling creature.
Look how fast Capitalism took off when Reagan was in office…everyone was trying to make a buck from everyone else in one way or another…except, now the rules that kept the free-market in check were burned in the trash-can and now we just see swaths of this country being slowly eliminated.
This way, it’s morally culpable according to the Bible you see.
Who is the judge who decides what parents have “destroyed” their lives? What is their punishment? Is the child therefore a damaged person subject to other rules?
Where does it end?
It ends in death.

[video=youtube;TWrJAaUU1r8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TWrJAaUU1r8[/video]

 

[Skarekrow]

[video=youtube;9R6RdHENcFU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9R6RdHENcFU[/video]

 

[CogentPursuit]

[video=youtube;9R6RdHENcFU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9R6RdHENcFU[/video]

If this is what you think I am suggesting you are very mistaken. I am not talking about sterilizing based on certain qualities and certainly not without their knowledge or power to prevent this from occurring.

I am talking about if you sign up for help from the government you will get it but will sign an agreement that you will not have children while receiving help and that failure to comply would be sterilization. People will be free but they will not be free to have children supported by the government. It is in their control, when they sign that document and then break that agreement. This is not some other person who gets to decide who gets sterilized and who doesn't. It is each person deciding their own fate but not at the expense of everyone else and the children who pay for their decisions.

 

[Skarekrow]

If this is what you think I am suggesting you are very mistaken. I am not talking about sterilizing based on certain qualities and certainly not without their knowledge or power to prevent this from occurring.

I am talking about if you sign up for help from the government you will get it but will sign an agreement that you will not have children while receiving help and that failure to comply would be sterilization. People will be free but they will not be free to have children supported by the government. It is in their control, when they sign that document and then break that agreement. This is not some other person who gets to decide who gets sterilized and who doesn't. It is each person deciding their own fate but not at the expense of everyone else and the children who pay for their decisions.

First of all…could never happen…the religious nuts would claim it’s their right and down goes the whole argument.

 

[Skarekrow]

[video=youtube;vb8Rj5xkDPk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vb8Rj5xkDPk[/video]

 

[Skarekrow]

 

[CogentPursuit]

First of all…could never happen…the religious nuts would claim it’s their right and down goes the whole argument.

Do you ban airplanes from being used because a few religious nuts would use them to take out buildings or do you put up safeguards so that the majority of the reasonable citizens can continue to utilize them?

 

[Skarekrow]

Do you ban airplanes from being used because a few religious nuts would use them to take out buildings or do you put up safeguards so that the majority of the reasonable citizens can continue to utilize them?

Kinda like our nation’s response to Global Warming…all those safeguards.

 

[CogentPursuit]

Kinda like our nation’s response to Global Warming…all those safeguards.

I am not really here to have a discussion about the validity of global warming and addressing all the misconceptions on both sides and how politics and media continues to misrepresent an issue until know one really understands what the issue is anymore.

 

[Skarekrow]

I am not really here to have a discussion about the validity of global warming and addressing all the misconceptions on both sides and how politics and media continues to misrepresent an issue until know one really understands what the issue is anymore.

Don’t you see the apathy that is being woven into the media? Our constant bombardment of this or that happening make the shock value that should be innate and intrinsic in mankind go down.
Just one example of many.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I can agree that there needs to be more accountability but the question begs who makes the rules and who holds who accountable?
It’s a downward spiral if you don’t discuss ethics and humanity as a feeling creature.
Look how fast Capitalism took off when Reagan was in office…everyone was trying to make a buck from everyone else in one way or another…except, now the rules that kept the free-market in check were burned in the trash-can and now we just see swaths of this country being slowly eliminated.
This way, it’s morally culpable according to the Bible you see.
Who is the judge who decides what parents have “destroyed” their lives? What is their punishment? Is the child therefore a damaged person subject to other rules?
Where does it end?
It ends in death.

[video=youtube;TWrJAaUU1r8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TWrJAaUU1r8[/video]

Reagan is thought of one of America's best Presidents and for good reason. Capitalism has advanced mankind leaps and bounds over any other ideal in human history. Sure some bad things come from it but the whole is far more beneficial overall.

Eventually we will be able to move away from capitalism because of capitalism. But that time is in the future. Until then we need to nurture what it brings.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I am not really here to have a discussion about the validity of global warming and addressing all the misconceptions on both sides and how politics and media continues to misrepresent an issue until know one really understands what the issue is anymore.

The issue is that environmentalists latched onto global warming as a catch all to move theiragenda foward. Not that its a bad agenda but its all based on a lie. So I cant support it even if the end result is actually not a bad thing. A lie is a lie and anything based on a lie is doomed to crumble with time one way or the other.

 

[Skarekrow]

Reagan is thought of one of America's best Presidents and for good reason. Capitalism has advanced mankind leaps and bounds over any other ideal in human history. Sure some bad things come from it but the whole is far more beneficial overall.

Eventually we will be able to move away from capitalism because of capitalism. But that time is in the future. Until then we need to nurture what it brings.

You are joking right?
We have advanced in what areas and by whom?
Certainly not working class America.
You have got to be fucking kidding….this is satire no?
Reagan destroyed the power of the unions once and for all and enabled the privatization of America to fleece it’s own workers.


The greatest times of growth and prosperity in this country were not with Reagan that is for damn sure…and I can show you every statistic about it you wish.
The greatest times of growth have also been when the playing field was the most level.

 

[Skarekrow]

The issue is that environmentalists latched onto global warming as a catch all to move theiragenda foward. Not that its a bad agenda but its all based on a lie. So I cant support it even if the end result is actually not a bad thing. A lie is a lie and anything based on a lie is doomed to crumble with time one way or the other.

I know you and Muir think it’s a conspiracy theory and for that I say “Fine.”
But it’s a win-win to clean the environment up, stop cutting trees, move away from fossil fuels.
It’s a non sequitur to argue about the science…and maybe there isn’t anything we can do about the temperature changes…but you have to agree that cutting down giant sections of the rainforest is bad…dirty water is bad…trash everywhere is bad….I mean give me a break…stop picking it apart to the point that you’ve convinced yourself it’s okay to not give a fuck.

 

[Eventhorizon]

You are joking right?
We have advanced in what areas and by whom?
Certainly not working class America.
You have got to be fucking kidding….this is satire no?
Reagan destroyed the power of the unions once and for all and enabled the privatization of America to fleece it’s own workers.


The greatest times of growth and prosperity in this country were not with Reagan that is for damn sure…and I can show you every statistic about it you wish.
The greatest times of growth have also been when the playing field was the most level.

Unions had their time and place. They are a hindrance now.
Yeah I know..all those statics you can pull up. I keep telling you that if you want to give me numbers give them to me from verifiable nonbiased trusted sources. And nit in bits and pieces. I want to see tangible proof and obvious connections. Something you will never get from Wikipedia etc...
I lived during Reagans era. The only people who say he wasnt a good President are the politically biased.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I know you and Muir think it’s a conspiracy theory and for that I say “Fine.”
But it’s a win-win to clean the environment up, stop cutting trees, move away from fossil fuels.
It’s a non sequitur to argue about the science…and maybe there isn’t anything we can do about the temperature changes…but you have to agree that cutting down giant sections of the rainforest is bad…dirty water is bad…trash everywhere is bad….I mean give me a break…stop picking it apart to the point that you’ve convinced yourself it’s okay to not give a fuck.

Now thats cute. That brought a smile. Here I was beginning to think that you an muir were one and the same...
I suppose your accusation dispels that though...