Why are we so apathetic?

[Skarekrow]

Perhaps. Kill yourself worrying about things you will never change then. In the end you and I will be equals in death.

Best of luck to you in your endeavor. The people who actually changed the world is a short list indeed. I hope to see you on it someday.

What an anger-fillied, resentful sounding, couple of statements.
You don’t know that you and I will be equals in death…even I don’t think I could know that.

If I even make it on that list…I’ll make sure to mention you as the guy who said it wasn’t worth it.

 

[Eventhorizon]

What an anger-fillied, resentful sounding, couple of statements.
You don’t know that you and I will be equals in death…even I don’t think I could know that.

If I even make it on that list…I’ll make sure to mention you as the guy who said it wasn’t worth it.

Anger filled? I thought infjs were supposed to be extremely in tune with others feelings. Absolutely no anger in any of those comments I have made. Looking back there has been high annoyance of some here...but those people I have blocked. Even so never any anger.

Interesting conclusions on your part.

 

[Skarekrow]

Anger filled? I thought infjs were supposed to be extremely in tune with others feelings. Absolutely no anger in any of those comments I have made. Looking back there has been high annoyance of some here...but those people I have blocked. Even so never any anger.

Interesting conclusions on your part.

Because it is truly an apathetic statement you made of me.
You don’t give a fuck about me, about this country, about the majority of the people in the world.
In tune with who’s feelings? You have to reveal some semblance of “feelings” for people to begin to understand you much less relate to you…which is something else you seem to not give a fuck about.
And the reason you give for not giving a fuck is “people didn’t listen to reason” when you tried to get them to see things in your own light…and so you are now apathetic with the best of them…and apathy stems from those things I listed…deny it all you want.
It’s comes from anger, ignorance and hate in many cases.

 

[Skarekrow]

Here is an example of the extreme opposite of apathy…
It’s love and compassion and humanity that are it’s folly.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Because it is truly an apathetic statement you made of me.
You don’t give a fuck about me, about this country, about the majority of the people in the world.
In tune with who’s feelings? You have to reveal some semblance of “feelings” for people to begin to understand you much less relate to you…which is something else you seem to not give a fuck about.
And the reason you give for not giving a fuck is “people didn’t listen to reason” when you tried to get them to see things in your own light…and so you are now apathetic with the best of them…and apathy stems from those things I listed…deny it all you want.
It’s comes from anger, ignorance and hate in many cases.

Now I have no feelings.
Sorry I completely do not understand where you are coming from in this instance. No anger...maybe some apathy. ..certainly no ignorance.

 

[Skarekrow]

Now I have no feelings.
Sorry I completely do not understand where you are coming from in this instance. No anger...maybe some apathy. ..certainly no ignorance.

Who/what do you actually care about in this world to do something to either salvage that belief/ideal, or that person physically?
Because the vibe you have given off is a great big - I don’t give a fuck about no one but me.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Here is an example of the extreme opposite of apathy…
It’s love and compassion and humanity that are it’s folly. Was she earning only a dollar a day when she found 1000 dollars...etc....

What is the whole story here? Is it even true? Was she earning only a dollar a day when she found this 1000 she donated etc....

 

[Eventhorizon]

Who/what do you actually care about in this world to do something to either salvage that belief/ideal, or that person physically?
Because the vibe you have given off is a great big - I don’t give a fuck about no one but me.

What ideal or belief are you talking about.
I suspect you are right I that I do not care nearly as much as you.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I was trying to come up with a scenario to display what I care about anything.

Lester and me are walking through the woods. Lester is a simple person and the people of the group I am a part of asked if I would take him along on the trip to fix some aspect of the town. On our way Lester slips and finds himself hanging from a cliff. I know I can rescue him at the cost of my own life. If we take my current position in life, I rescue Lester and die in the process.
In the other scenario we are walking through the woods, Lester hangs from the cliff... only here I am the only person in a post apocalyptic town who knows how to fix the water filtration system at the time. Without me, 30 people will die until someone else learns how to fix the system. Here Lester dies because I allow him to. When I go back to town I tell everyone what happened.
This is how much I care about anything I can directly effect.
I am selfish in many ways but to say I am only interested in my own life isnt accurate I think. With Lester, I do not feel much. I simply do what I think is right or that makes the most sense.

 

[Skarekrow]

What ideal or belief are you talking about.
I suspect you are right I that I do not care nearly as much as you.

I was trying to come up with a scenario to display what I care about anything.

Lester and me are walking through the woods. Lester is a simple person and the people of the group I am a part of asked if I would take him along on the trip to fix some aspect of the town. On our way Lester slips and finds himself hanging from a cliff. I know I can rescue him at the cost of my own life. If we take my current position in life, I rescue Lester and die in the process.
In the other scenario we are walking through the woods, Lester hangs from the cliff... only here I am the only person in a post apocalyptic town who knows how to fix the water filtration system at the time. Without me, 30 people will die until someone else learns how to fix the system. Here Lester dies because I allow him to. When I go back to town I tell everyone what happened.
This is how much I care about anything I can directly effect.
I am selfish in many ways but to say I am only interested in my own life isnt accurate I think. With Lester, I do not feel much. I simply do what I think is right or that makes the most sense.

Is that what our species should be boiled down to?
Like we are the machina logica, and we should all aspire to be like the Vulcans perhaps?

This is exactly where you and I are so totally different…species be damned I would try to save someone that I really loved.
But I also believe in my gut that it exactly this trait that has allowed us to come together as a species in the first place.
And I’m not saying that that trait is the best trait that is out there…a certain amount of logical strictness is needed to run a society over a certain population…but we have gone too far…we have demonized helping each other, demonized and made it quite expensive I might add, to get a proper education…it’s the culmination of these thoughts and ideas that has allowed us to thrive.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Is that what our species should be boiled down to?
Like we are the machina logica, and we should all aspire to be like the Vulcans perhaps?

This is exactly where you and I are so totally different…species be damned I would try to save someone that I really loved.
But I also believe in my gut that it exactly this trait that has allowed us to come together as a species in the first place.
And I’m not saying that that trait is the best trait that is out there…a certain amount of logical strictness is needed to run a society over a certain population…but we have gone too far…we have demonized helping each other, demonized and made it quite expensive I might add, to get a proper education…it’s the culmination of these thoughts and ideas that has allowed us to thrive.

Well I have said many times in my posts through out this site that this is a dilemma that I contemplate a lot. Taking the logical route will advance mankind more quickly and make it stronger. However when we get to wher le we are going, is anything really worth anything absent the heart. Does mankind have less worth when it has less heart?
I have not come up with an answer yet but I think the answer is partly based in relative perception. Meaning the person who cares more would say no, the person who cares less would be more likely to say yes.
I care, I just recognize my limitations. I will survive first in most instances, I will then look ojt for family and friends. In some instances I will give my life to save another if it comes to it. But you cant help anyone else when you are dead. After that if I have time left over I will look out for others in the world. But, and this is a big but, I am simply one person. The most influential people we can think of today changed the world in small amounts. None of them changed the world in a way that took away all the atrocities. Those still happen unabated. So, give yourself a break and live your life first. You will not be judged or weighed on the condition of the world when you leave it.

 

[Sriracha]

Ya both are hawt. I wish ya'll would just kiss already.

 

[CogentPursuit]

Forced sterilization would be prudent in this case.

I think if we sterilized all individuals, on welfare for a prolonged period of time, while they are on the handouts we could eliminate the expansion of those handouts to their future children.

Also we could eliminate children having children if we established a system for temporary sterilization until age 25 in which case it would be legal to have children. In fact it seems old that, legally, you are old enough handle the responsibility to have children at any age your body allows for it but not old enough to handle the responsibility of an alcoholic beverage until 21.

People are too reasonable to do what is necessary.

 

[Skarekrow]

Forced sterilization would be prudent in this case.

I think if we sterilized all individuals, on welfare for a prolonged period of time, while they are on the handouts we could eliminate the expansion of those handouts to their future children.

Also we could eliminate children having children if we established a system for temporary sterilization until age 25 in which case it would be legal to have children. In fact it seems old that, legally, you are old enough handle the responsibility to have children at any age your body allows for it but not old enough to handle the responsibility of an alcoholic beverage until 21.

People are too reasonable to do what is necessary.

The problem lies with who decides who get sterilized…is it a monetary cut off? Did people have time to build their personal wealth to avoid this? What of religious exemptions?
What happens to children born out of this law, are they put to death? What if they are already 6 years old?
WHere does the brutality and the apathy end?

 

[Skarekrow]

[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION]

[video=youtube;8_XAso3bJ4s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8_XAso3bJ4s[/video]

 

[muir]

I see the internet as what the military would call a 'force multiplier'

So one soldier with a rifle can do a certain amount of damage, but a soldier with a load of explosives, if he is creative can cause major disruption...so that's the military analogy of a 'force multiplier'

But we are not in a shooting war here (not yet anyway) we are in a war over consciousness

This is very clear at times like this when we are in the run upto an election when you can hear people talking about politics a lot

I know that on my own i'm probably not going to make a big difference in the world, but if i can communicate with people all around the world and spread some information and ideas then those might take root. This means that I multiply my own impact on the system

So for example if i move my money out of the banks and put it into a community credit union i have made a very small difference in the world. if however i encourage more peopel to do this over a number of sites online then i have multiplied the effect of my own conscious awakening

So.....a big idea that would be a GAME CHANGER if enough people can wrap their heads around this is the following.....

Our money is NOT supplied by our governments. It is supplied by private banks who charge us interest on it.

If our government treasury starts printing its own money, interest free, then the economy could boom again. President Lincoln did this when he created the 'greenback' currency so the bankers had him assassinated.

President Kennedy passed an executive order which created a silver backed currency and then he was shot by the bankers.

President Andrew jackson also fought the private bankers and an assassination attempt on him failed when the pistols failed to fire.

None of the main political parties are discussing the issue of who controls the money supply and that is because they are all currently funded by the central bankers and their corporate network

So, what the public needs to do is to publicise online the idea of taking control of the money supply back off the bankers so that come the next election this is a key issue even if that needs the creation of a new political party to achieve it

here's a short clip about how just such a currency called the 'bradbury pound' has already been created in the UK and how it could be used again:

[video=youtube;ZsXI38ey-nY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsXI38ey-nY[/video]

if i did not share that information it would only exist in my head where only one person can then make their life choices (eg how i vote, spend, act etc) according to that understanding about how the world works, but after posting it around the internet and encouraging people to pass it on I may then encourage other people to vote, spend, think, behave differently

The governments and the main political parties WILL NOT BE YOUR SAVIOUR, they do not work for you, they work for the corporations. This means that you and me and everyone else on the street must make the changes that need to be made if we want the world to improve

This means grassroots actions and that means sharing information to change thinking and encourage right action

 

[CogentPursuit]

The problem lies with who decides who get sterilized…is it a monetary cut off? Did people have time to build their personal wealth to avoid this? What of religious exemptions?
What happens to children born out of this law, are they put to death? What if they are already 6 years old?
WHere does the brutality and the apathy end?

Why punish the child for the parents wrongdoing? Best to take away the parents ability to have children permanently since they cannot follow the guidelines of the law and will likely commit these crimes again. Monetary cut off? It isn't about your ablity to build wealth only to sustain yourself. If you cannot sustain yourself and then how messed up is it that you would bring a child into the world that you cannot provide for or nurture? Do these people care so little for the child's success that they can only see their own desires? I am not saying they can never have children or that they need a lot of money, only that they must be self reliant before bringing into the world a child that would rely on them for it's success.

It would also help reduce the growth of the poor class and allow them to have more money by not being irresponible having children they cannot afford. It isn't fair to the children and the world doesn't need more people let alone irresponsible people.

Not all poor people are irresponsible; it is just that irresponsible people are more likely to end up poor.

 

[Solongo]

Why punish the child for the parents wrongdoing? Best to take away the parents ability to have children permanently since they cannot follow the guidelines of the law and will likely commit these crimes again. Monetary cut off? It isn't about your ablity to build wealth only to sustain yourself. If you cannot sustain yourself and then how messed up is it that you would bring a child into the world that you cannot provide for or nurture? Do these people care so little for the child's success that they can only see their own desires? I am not saying they can never have children or that they need a lot of money, only that they must be self reliant before bringing into the world a child that would rely on them for it's success.

It would also help reduce the growth of the poor class and allow them to have more money by not being irresponible having children they cannot afford. It isn't fair to the children and the world doesn't need more people let alone irresponsible people.

Not all poor people are irresponsible; it is just that irresponsible people are more likely to end up poor.

I get what you are saying. I don't remember what state; but the schooling system was trying out a program to reduce teenage pregnancy by offering cash incentives for students that stayed non pregnant throughout the high school years. The parents scoffed at it and only small amount of students participated. if big corporations can put in vending machines to increase obesity in our schools; why can't there be some sort of incentive for those who focus on their education and not get pregnant. The sad reality is that the poorer uneducated women enjoy being taken care by the system and see having babies as an easy way to establish "security" by trapping some sucker for child payments and working the system.

 

[Dohavior]

You people are so greedy. I don't need any of this stuff. What do you need it for? It is just a bunch of emotional baggage. And I hate packing to go places!

 

[Skarekrow]

Why punish the child for the parents wrongdoing? Best to take away the parents ability to have children permanently since they cannot follow the guidelines of the law and will likely commit these crimes again. Monetary cut off? It isn't about your ablity to build wealth only to sustain yourself. If you cannot sustain yourself and then how messed up is it that you would bring a child into the world that you cannot provide for or nurture? Do these people care so little for the child's success that they can only see their own desires? I am not saying they can never have children or that they need a lot of money, only that they must be self reliant before bringing into the world a child that would rely on them for it's success.

It would also help reduce the growth of the poor class and allow them to have more money by not being irresponible having children they cannot afford. It isn't fair to the children and the world doesn't need more people let alone irresponsible people.

Not all poor people are irresponsible; it is just that irresponsible people are more likely to end up poor.

Wrong….show me the statistics that irresponsible people are more likely to be poor?
Because I have statistics that say medical bills are the number one reason people file for bankruptcy….I can cite multiple sources - http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0310/top-5-reasons-people-go-bankrupt.aspx

Let’s look at that same article…number two - Job loss…one could argue that people lose their jobs because of being irresponsible…but that wasn’t they case in the Wall Street crash was it?
Number three - Credit…yes, could be irresponsible…but could things like job loss, medical expenses come up…with 30 year stagnate wages for the middle/working class all while inflation skyrockets…where is that buffer of cash to hold them through the hard times? It was never able to be saved…shit happens and happens constantly.
Number 4 - Divorce…some people are quite vindictive even to the point of ruining someone financially and homeless…it happens.
Then 5 - unexpected expenses…..wow do those sound like things that irresponsible people are doing?
Do you think that people don’t decide to have a family and kids and then life happens and things fall to shit?
Don’t take humanity out of the equation INTP!
The only time I could ever wish for someone to be forcibly sterilized would be a Mother who has had multiple drug addicted, brain damaged children and cannot control herself to stop.
And even then, there are norplant devices that last 5-8 years I think something like that.
The shit you propose sounds awfully like the shit the Nazi’s proposed doing.