Why Capitalism makes us sick

Me reading this thread:

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Capitalism made me do it.
 
JJJA said:
Capitalism = cheetos. <3
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Cheetos are made by slave labor and union-busted sweat shops in Muslim countries (they probably spit in them)…this is why you should only support free-range cheese poofs.
 
the said:
Does our current mixture of a little capitalism plus a little socialism plus a little this and that also make us sick?
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I think so. I think uncertainty and mixed signals from the government and society as a whole cause a lot of frustration and anxiety on the individual level. In my opinion it comes down to the old adage, you can't make everyone happy. Seems like everyone is getting just a little bit their way, but consumer capitalism teaches us to always want more, so in the end no one is really happy.
 
JJJA said:
You can see why I made my first comment. It is classic SJW 'logic' to automatically display sympathy for minorities, despite them being no less disadvantaged as the rest of people in a Capitalist society. That's the beauty of Capitalism: the state is not going to discriminate based on background, because it isn't big enough to do so. Yet, SJWs seem to think that a state which is supposed to be smaller than their dream Utopia (which happens to be a big-government Socialist state) somehow manages to conjure up more power and take away more rights from minorities, but they can never seem to provide sufficient evidence to back up this claim. It's simply a falsehood: Nobody cares where you come from in a Capitalist society. The 'system' does not hold grand plans to consistently oppress you. It's a fantasy cooked up fictitiously by those with very slanted agendas aiming to manipulate discussions on cultural and social issues, and trying to combine them with economic and political issues; creating a new wave of self-entitled people with strong opinions and a very large absence of facts. There is no graph that states Capitalism creates illness, and blaming stress levels on Capitalism is just another giant leap in the direction of ignoring personal responsibilities and personal life choices and circumstances which leads to stress and illness. Capitalism is just a system based on the principle of individual rights, the rule of law and the free-market. Nowhere does the application of systematic oppression or illness fall into this system. Each individual person has their own problems and decisions to make, and each and every person makes their own decision which is very different to the next; blaming so many different problems on a single system is a classic straw-man.
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I would like to begin by saying I agree with much of what you said. However, for argument's sake, do you then believe that capitalism as a system plays no real role in the environment? And then that our environment plays no real role in our stress levels individually? I think capitalism works very well, when executed in its pure sense. I also believe that the combination of capitalist principles, human greed, and commercial consumption has created an environment that disagrees with those individuals with more naturalist personalities. Of course it also disagrees with lazy people, but I think it's a common conservative presumption that everyone who struggles with the capitalist structure can be pigeonholed as a lazy, self indulgent economic leech. It's not a world for artists, for instance, many of whom work very hard for little reward and for whom socialism (for example) would create a more equitable environment.
 
0utofth3b0x said:
I think so. I think uncertainty and mixed signals from the government and society as a whole cause a lot of frustration and anxiety on the individual level. In my opinion it comes down to the old adage, you can't make everyone happy. Seems like everyone is getting just a little bit their way, but consumer capitalism teaches us to always want more, so in the end no one is really happy.
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Why is one way the best way? This seems like a very extreme outlook on the situation.
 
the said:
Why is one way the best way? This seems like a very extreme outlook on the situation.
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I'm a little surprised that's what you took from what I wrote there. I never meant to imply there's one best way, or even that one way is better than another. My point is just that different people want different things and no one government/society/culture is equipped to provide a perfect setting for everyone, or even a tolerable one in some cases. My view is limited in this respect, but I know American capitalism feeds consumerism which in turn feeds desire. We're trained to have a "gimme, gimme" attitude, to feel guilt or worthlessness if we can't earn enough to have the things we want, to buy into a system that wants us to work ourselves to death in order to have more and more material things leaving little or no time for self actualization. Certainly the system isn't solely to blame, but it totally contributes and I think it would be difficult to argue that Capitalism isn't at least partly to blame for the atmosphere that causes people to become stressed, overworked, and chronically dissatisfied.
 
La Sagna said:
It wasn't the moderator calling me out on that comment , but your friend, and then you posted something about being attacked yourself...

Well, I'm over it...the whole thing is silly.
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Whoa...

Yup, going off topic here just because I was away yet feel the need to defend...again. 1) He's not my friend (yet). Check my friends list. Not on it. In fact, very few are on it. I don't even know the guy. 2) My post calling you out was exactly that, calling you out without being biased, from many things I have observed. 3) The whole thing is silly.


Back to topic, my apologies for the derailment, I'll gladly exit this thread.
 
JJJA said:
This is why Hush is a moderator and you are not. Just because you percieve what I said to be off-topic does not make it off-topic. Hush moderates because she is objective in her approach to forum nonsense and/or personal attacks. What I said was in poor taste and ill-advised humour, but it's not an attack on members, and I was being relevant to the topic, and yes I did watch the video. Why do I suddenly have to explain why I post such things? I don't need to check my posts in-case people don't like what I say. I can say whatever I bloody well want, and your petty attempt to shame me isn't going to bring the mod back to suddenly give me a lashing. This is what a free forum looks like. How many times am I going to get this rubbish from members? Always trying to find a way to make my posts look awful in the hopes that a mod might delete them. Just get back to the topic like she asked you to do.
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As it happens I can also say whatever I bloody want, that also includes pointing out inconsistencies I perceive and expressing negative attitudes toward things others post as this is what a free forum looks like. (no such thing as a free forum btw, unless you own it) Your post did not attack other members? "SJW" is a pejorative term and you're fully aware of that. Your post referred to the members that were going to post negative things about capitalism in this thread. Who else could it refer to? Fairies in the sky? Please. "SJW" is a real thing; dismissing anybody against capitalism as an SJW is dishonest at best, and drive by character assassination/ad hominem at worst.

This is the first time I have ever had a negative interaction with you on this forum. I have never tried to get your posts deleted, turn the moderators against you nor anything of the sort. If anything, you are the one trying to shut me me down by appealing to mod authority.
 
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Why "___________" makes US sick is delusional. Who does someone think they are to lump everyone into one frame of mind toward capitalism?
 
La Sagna said:
I don't tend to be somebody who uses harsh language. You are entitled to your opinion on matters, even if we disagree. I certainly don't agree with any sterilization programs because I don't believe that there is any group in society that we can trust to make that sort of decision as to who deserves or doesn't deserve to have children. Many of the people at the top who have little or no empathy probably shouldn't be spreading their genes either but because they have money and power they would then get to decide who does and doesn't deserve to have kids. Having money doesn't make you a better person. Some of the poorest people do the most to help other people and those that beat the odds and get themselves out are often the ones who change the world for the better because they understand what it's like to be poor.

The differences in brain development is not about education, it's more about parenting. People that are decent and hard working but are stressed out because of not making enough to support their families don't have the time and attention to give their children so that they can develop in a healthier environment.

Your negative comments obviously directed at black Americans is bypassing completely that there is a great deal of discrimination due to racism, particularly in the U.S. It is an additional barrier that black Americans have to overcome. Yes, they can succeed and do well, but it takes a lot more courage and determination for them to be able to do the same thing that a white American is able to do.
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It would be voluntary. No one would be making anyone do anything.
 
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0utofth3b0x said:
I'm a little surprised that's what you took from what I wrote there. I never meant to imply there's one best way, or even that one way is better than another. My point is just that different people want different things and no one government/society/culture is equipped to provide a perfect setting for everyone, or even a tolerable one in some cases. My view is limited in this respect, but I know American capitalism feeds consumerism which in turn feeds desire. We're trained to have a "gimme, gimme" attitude, to feel guilt or worthlessness if we can't earn enough to have the things we want, to buy into a system that wants us to work ourselves to death in order to have more and more material things leaving little or no time for self actualization. Certainly the system isn't solely to blame, but it totally contributes and I think it would be difficult to argue that Capitalism isn't at least partly to blame for the atmosphere that causes people to become stressed, overworked, and chronically dissatisfied.
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So as long as it's not capitalism you're happy - even though there is no one way that works for everyone, right? Okay bud.
 
the said:
So as long as it's not capitalism you're happy - even though there is no one way that works for everyone, right? Okay bud.
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I'm totally lost on why you are getting that impression from anything I've written. I distinctly stated twice that I am in no way asserting that capitalism doesn't work or is less effective than any other system. I'm sorry you aren't grasping my point and that you feel the need to be patronizing. I don't think I've said anything one sided or ridiculous.
 
This is from a couple years ago, but the stats haven’t budged…we are still behind Slovenia here in the US….nothing against the Slovenians, clearly they have their shit together better than we do.
And the wealth gap, which is also global, is getting wider and wider…the richest 1% own HALF of the all the world’s wealth.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...rlds-wealth-according-to-report-a6693226.html
This is what happens when Capitalism is allowed to grow uncontrollably…it’s time we weed the garden.
The other 99% share the other 50%.
Clearly there is a better way…Iceland threw it’s dirty bankers and dealers in jail, so far, it’s worked out really well for them.


Thursday, October 17, 2013

Median Wealth Increases, but U.S. Still Stuck at 27th in World



The new Global Wealth Report and Global Wealth Databook from Credit Suisse were released last week. According to the Report (p. 3),
Global wealth has reached a new all-time high of USD 241 trillion, up 4.9% since last year and 68% since 2003, with the USA accounting for 72% of the latest increase. Average [mean] wealth per adult reached a new all-time high of USD 51,600, with wealth per adult in Switzerland returning to above USD 500,000.​
For the United States, this represents an increase in mean wealth per adult of 11.4% from mid-2012 to mid-2013 (Databook, p. 92). Median wealth per adult increased even faster, from $38,786 to $44,911, or 15.8%, although we should recall that measurement of median wealth is less reliable than that for mean wealth.

Nonetheless, while these data represent improvement for the typical American, there was no change in our ranking relative to the rest of the world. While Kuwait and Cyprus fell below the U.S., Slovenia and, more surprisingly, Greece now have higher median wealth per adult. Thus, the United States remains only 27th in the world.

These data are significant for at least two reasons. First, they highlight the fact that while the United States has a higher gross domestic product per capita than all but four of the 26 countries ahead of it in median wealth per adult (Qatar, Luxembourg, Singapore, and Norway), the long-term trend of economic policies has clearly hurt the middle class. Inequality is a big part of the explanation here: mean wealth per adult in the U.S. is 6.7 times median wealth per adult, the highest ratio in the top 27. By contrast, in #1 Australia the mean-to-median ratio is only 1.8:1. In fact, this ratio is less than 3:1 for 19 of the 26 countries with higher median wealth per adult. In Slovenia, mean wealth per adult is less than 1.5 times median wealth per adult! (All figures calculated from Databook, Table 3-1.)

Second, these low levels of wealth contribute to the coming retirement crisis of the middle class. Americans have low levels of saving, while Social Security still looks vulnerable to the chopping block despite our already high level of elder poverty.

Here are the top 27 countries by median wealth per adult.

Country Median Wealth
Per Adult

1. Australia $219,505
2. Luxembourg $182,768
3. Belgium $148,141
4. France $141,850
5. Italy $138,653
6. United Kingdom $111,524
7. Japan $110,294
8. Iceland $104,733
9. Switzerland $ 95,916
10. Finland $ 95,095
11. Norway $ 92,859
12. Singapore $ 90,466
13. Canada $ 90,252
14. Netherlands $ 83,631
15. New Zealand $ 76,607
16. Ireland $ 75,573
17. Spain $ 63,306
18. Qatar $ 58,237
19. Denmark $ 57,675
20. Austria $ 57,450
21. Greece $ 53,937
22. Taiwan $ 53,336
23. Sweden $ 52,677
24. United Arab Emirates $ 51,882
25. Germany $ 49,370
26. Slovenia $ 44,932
27. United States $ 44,911

Source: Credit Suisse Global Wealth Databook, Table 3-1



 
An interesting article on Capitalism and it’s demise...


The end of capitalism has begun

Without us noticing, we are entering the postcapitalist era.
At the heart of further change to come is information technology, new ways of working and the sharing economy.
The old ways will take a long while to disappear, but it’s time to be utopian

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/17/postcapitalism-end-of-capitalism-begun​
 
Why should I work 60 plus hours a week to have what I want, and watch someone else sit on their butt and get the same? While I never minded sharing, it insults my intelligence to give to someone I feel does not deserve it. Capitalism at least gives a man a carrot on a stick to chase.

capitalism2.jpg
 
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just me said:
Why should I work 60 plus hours a week to have what I want, and watch someone else sit on their butt and get the same? While I never minded sharing, it insults my intelligence to give to someone I feel does not deserve it. Capitalism at least gives a man a carrot on a stick to chase.
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That is kind of what is happening to people right now in our Capitalistic society.
We get dangled carrots of Social Security, pay raises the never keep up with inflation, dwindling health care while cost skyrocket.
I don’t agree that people shouldn’t do their fair share, but each also according to their ability.
That doesn’t mean that Joe Blow who was just barely smart enough to graduate HS should have to live in squalor with no medical insurance and no chance to lift himself out of the position should be paid jack shit to match his wit.
That society doesn’t care about the lesser amongst it.
Count me out.
 
Compare yourself to your peers for a change.

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